"Inside Hillary Clinton’s Secret Takeover of the DNC"
Did anyone watch my video? It goes into detail on the topics discussed in this thread:
jesus, 58 minutes?
I bet you get no takers.
nan said:
Did anyone watch my video? It goes into detail on the topics discussed in this thread:
drummerboy,
You never listen to more than 2 minutes of any of my videos anyway, so what's the problem? Kind of funny though--you will spend 24/7 calling me names and asking for the me to explain the same things over and over or to post the same evidence for the 10th time, but when I acutally put something substantial up for serious discussion, you are so put out. I actually spend a lot of time reading about this issue from many sides and listinng to lots of videos. You seemed to have watched about 15 minutes on CNN and declared yourself an expert.
nan said:
drummerboy,
You never listen to more than 2 minutes of any of my videos anyway, so what's the problem? Kind of funny though--you will spend 24/7 calling me names and asking for the me to explain the same things over and over or to post the same evidence for the 10th time, but when I acutally put something substantial up for serious discussion, you are so put out. I actually spend a lot of time reading about this issue from many sides and listinng to lots of videos. You seemed to have watched about 15 minutes on CNN and declared yourself an expert.
Nan..........You seem to have picked up for your self a version of a stalker I once had. Speak your truth,
you do it well.
Look, I don't outsource my arguments and posts to 3rd party videos, and I'm not going to waste my time watching something because you're too lazy to summarize the salient points in a forum post.
I pummel you with facts, and most of the time you ignore them too, so why should you be upset that I ignore your videos? Anyway, I sampled some of your videos, and they invariably start off with dis or mis-information, which I've pointed out, and which you have also ignored.
If someone lies to me in the first minute, why should I waste more time with them?
nan said:
drummerboy,
You never listen to more than 2 minutes of any of my videos anyway, so what's the problem? Kind of funny though--you will spend 24/7 calling me names and asking for the me to explain the same things over and over or to post the same evidence for the 10th time, but when I acutally put something substantial up for serious discussion, you are so put out. I actually spend a lot of time reading about this issue from many sides and listinng to lots of videos. You seemed to have watched about 15 minutes on CNN and declared yourself an expert.
nohero said:paulsurovell said:
nohero said:
Mr. Surovell has again taken a statement out of context. What I wrote was about "the chanting Bernie Bros at the convention " who "protested her nomination". Since that was going on from Day One of the convention, the meaning should have been obvious -
Almost as soon as the gavel echoed, ardent supporters of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders hijacked the opening moments of the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia Monday, repeatedly booing mentions of Hillary Clinton, chanting Sanders’ name and turning what was supposed to be a celebration of party unity into an ugly family feud.
It was a disastrous start to a four-day televised event that was supposed to showcase Democratic unity. Inside the arena, Sanders supporters repeatedly disrupted the proceedings on stage, drowning out a series of black elected officials at the podium. Outside the arena, some Sanders supporters tried to block buses carrying delegates from entering the secured complex.
From the opening prayer, in which Rev. Dr. Cynthia Hale invoked Clinton’s name, almost every reference of the presumptive Democratic nominee’s drew boos from hundreds of vocal Sanders delegates and supporters. Some delegates borrowed a chant from last week’s Republican convention in Cleveland, shouting, “Lock her up!”
...
So Sanders’ supporters booed and jeered Clinton, while Democratic officials watched as any patina of party unity seemed to go by the wayside. If Democrats are to defeat Republican Donald Trump, they will need to muster far greater cooperation than was on display as the activists and insiders began their every-four-years summit.
They chanted "Lock her up" throughout the convention. They even booed the prayer.
I have no respect for the Sanders supporters who did that, and no respect for any excuses for their actions to turn the convention into a commercial for Donald Trump.
What is your evidence that Bernie supporters chanted "Lock her up?"
The evidence is in contemporaneous news accounts, one of which I cited in my post to which you responded "What is your evidence that Bernie supporters changed 'Lock her up?' "
My turn. Where is your evidence that they didn't chant "Lock her up"?
"Some" delegates shouted "Lock her up." Maybe it was two. If it really happened, there should be a video, since there were cameras all over the convention floor. Have you seen one?
During the campaign there were lots of fake stories planted about Bernie supporters. The one about chairs being thrown in Nevada is the most famous. Lots of reports, but not one video ever shown, yet, thoses "reports" cause at least two of my neighbors to decide not to vote for Bernie. So unless you have actual video of a group chanting that, you do not have any evidence.
More gasslighting. Lots of gas.
drummerboy said:
Look, I don't outsource my arguments and posts to 3rd party videos, and I'm not going to waste my time watching something because you're too lazy to summarize the salient points in a forum post.
I pummel you with facts, and most of the time you ignore them too, so why should you be upset that I ignore your videos? Anyway, I sampled some of your videos, and they invariably start off with dis or mis-information, which I've pointed out, and which you have also ignored.
If someone lies to me in the first minute, why should I waste more time with them?
nan said:
drummerboy,
You never listen to more than 2 minutes of any of my videos anyway, so what's the problem? Kind of funny though--you will spend 24/7 calling me names and asking for the me to explain the same things over and over or to post the same evidence for the 10th time, but when I acutally put something substantial up for serious discussion, you are so put out. I actually spend a lot of time reading about this issue from many sides and listinng to lots of videos. You seemed to have watched about 15 minutes on CNN and declared yourself an expert.
paulsurovell said:
"Some" delegates shouted "Lock her up." Maybe it was two. If it really happened, there should be a video, since there were cameras all over the convention floor. Have you seen one?
nan said:
During the campaign there were lots of fake stories planted about Bernie supporters. The one about chairs being thrown in Nevada is the most famous. Lots of reports, but not one video ever shown, yet, thoses "reports" cause at least two of my neighbors to decide not to vote for Bernie. So unless you have actual video of a group chanting that, you do not have any evidence.
Two thoughts:
(1) You two kids are doing the Donald Trump dodge ("It's fake news!!!"). There are contemporaneous news accounts. I'm not going to hunt for a video just on your say-so. At that time in July of 2016, your favorite anti-Hillary "investigative reporters" and "brilliant comedians" could have contradicted those reports, but apparently they didn't since you haven't shown up with those. They happily reported on anti-Hillary protests at the Convention, that's for sure.
(2) Your focus on denying just one phrase, and NOT denying the fact of the protests, is basically admitting the point that there were anti-Hillary protestors at the DNC. As I noted in another post, a convention is a commercial for the party holding the convention. You admit that there were protests, in and around the convention, by Bernie delegates against the party's nominee. It's easy to find videos of speakers having to deal with that (an African-American congresswoman having to depart from her script saying, "I respect you, so please respect me", or Sarah Silverman berating protestors from the podium). All of that was a commercial for Donald Trump.
So the protestors got their wish. Hillary Clinton was not elected President. Don't tell me they gave a d*mn about the consequences (which were foreseeable, and we're seeing now).
drummerboy said:
You think all these news reports were about 2 people?
Actually all of those reports are about zero people in the convention. They are about protests outside the convention.
nohero said:
paulsurovell said:
"Some" delegates shouted "Lock her up." Maybe it was two. If it really happened, there should be a video, since there were cameras all over the convention floor. Have you seen one?
nan said:
During the campaign there were lots of fake stories planted about Bernie supporters. The one about chairs being thrown in Nevada is the most famous. Lots of reports, but not one video ever shown, yet, thoses "reports" cause at least two of my neighbors to decide not to vote for Bernie. So unless you have actual video of a group chanting that, you do not have any evidence.
Two thoughts:
(1) You two kids are doing the Donald Trump dodge ("It's fake news!!!"). There are contemporaneous news accounts. I'm not going to hunt for a video just on your say-so. At that time in July of 2016, your favorite anti-Hillary "investigative reporters" and "brilliant comedians" could have contradicted those reports, but apparently they didn't since you haven't shown up with those. They happily reported on anti-Hillary protests at the Convention, that's for sure.
(2) Your focus on denying just one phrase, and NOT denying the fact of the protests, is basically admitting the point that there were anti-Hillary protestors at the DNC. As I noted in another post, a convention is a commercial for the party holding the convention. You admit that there were protests, in and around the convention, by Bernie delegates against the party's nominee. It's easy to find videos of speakers having to deal with that (an African-American congresswoman having to depart from her script saying, "I respect you, so please respect me", or Sarah Silverman berating protestors from the podium). All of that was a commercial for Donald Trump.
So the protestors got their wish. Hillary Clinton was not elected President. Don't tell me they gave a d*mn about the consequences (which were foreseeable, and we're seeing now).
You posted a report which claimed that "some" Sanders delegates chanted "Lock her up" in the convention. The operative word is "in." Apart from the fact that "some" could mean "two" there is no corroborating evidence of this report. It is likely false.
Now you're moving the goalposts and talking about protests "at" the convention -- meaning outside the convention. These protests involved anyone who wanted to show up, and your attempt to conflate protesters outside the convention with "Sanders delegates" is blatantly dishonest.
There are protesters outside all conventions. They are a given, an assumption, for all elections. They don't determine outcomes. So whatever these protesters "wished," their actions at the convention had nothing to do with Hillary's loss. Her loss was caused by an elitist, arrogant, clueless, scapegoating campaign that turned workers off and failed to motivate women and blacks; coming from the same mindset that appears in your posts.
Nohero - Let me repeat this in case you are not getting it. When it comes to allegations against Bernie supporters -- show me a video or I don't consider it real. End of story.
There were protests at the convention because the Progressives were treated horribly. Where is your anger at the DNC? Never happens. A candidate signs a secret document to get the nomination and all you care about is shutting up the protesters to this disaster.
nan said:
During the campaign there were lots of fake stories planted about Bernie supporters. The one about chairs being thrown in Nevada is the most famous. Lots of reports, but not one video ever shown, yet, thoses "reports" cause at least two of my neighbors to decide not to vote for Bernie.
Do you live in New Jersey? By the time we got to vote the contest was over.
In any event about the Convention it's almost like this discussion is based on a separate reality from the one I experienced and remember. After the two Conventions were over the overwhelming consensus was that the Democratic Convention came across as terrific and the Republican Convention came across as mediocre. Everyone remembers Mr. Khan's speech. Who remembers even one from the Republican Convention?
All the odds and odd makers favored Hillary over Trump. Then Comey did what he did and Trump won the Electoral College by about 80,000 votes in three States. A fluke.
If we are to assess blame then 95% of it goes to Comey and a handful of naive victims of Trump's con.
LOST, I remember Flynn's lock-her-up speech, but only because I envision HRC visiting him when he's in prison. 
cramer said:
Word.
Ditto.
nan said:
Nohero - Let me repeat this in case you are not getting it. When it comes to allegations against Bernie supporters -- show me a video or I don't consider it real. End of story.
There were protests at the convention because the Progressives were treated horribly. Where is your anger at the DNC? Never happens. A candidate signs a secret document to get the nomination and all you care about is shutting up the protesters to this disaster.
There is video, there are photographs, of delegates on the floor booing and protesting. There were protests at the convention because the protesters didn't want Hillary to be the nominee - and they protested even after she was nominated. You keep asking "Where is your anger at the DNC?" You keep deflecting from the real problem - childish people who acted like children at the convention and were happy that Hillary lost.
nohero said:
nan said:
Nohero - Let me repeat this in case you are not getting it. When it comes to allegations against Bernie supporters -- show me a video or I don't consider it real. End of story.
There were protests at the convention because the Progressives were treated horribly. Where is your anger at the DNC? Never happens. A candidate signs a secret document to get the nomination and all you care about is shutting up the protesters to this disaster.
There is video, there are photographs, of delegates on the floor booing and protesting. There were protests at the convention because the protesters didn't want Hillary to be the nominee - and they protested even after she was nominated. You keep asking "Where is your anger at the DNC?" You keep deflecting from the real problem - childish people who acted like children at the convention and were happy that Hillary lost.
To what ever extent that occurred that was a demonstration and could hardly be considered the "real problem". The DNC's stacking the deck and depriving Bernie of the nomination was the real problem.
Depriving the country of a sane person with years of experience and opening the door to what and whom we have now.........that is the real problem
paulsurovell said:
nohero said:You posted a report which claimed that "some" Sanders delegates chanted "Lock her up" in the convention. The operative word is "in." Apart from the fact that "some" could mean "two" there is no corroborating evidence of this report. It is likely false.
Two thoughts:
(1) You two kids are doing the Donald Trump dodge ("It's fake news!!!"). There are contemporaneous news accounts. I'm not going to hunt for a video just on your say-so. At that time in July of 2016, your favorite anti-Hillary "investigative reporters" and "brilliant comedians" could have contradicted those reports, but apparently they didn't since you haven't shown up with those. They happily reported on anti-Hillary protests at the Convention, that's for sure.
(2) Your focus on denying just one phrase, and NOT denying the fact of the protests, is basically admitting the point that there were anti-Hillary protestors at the DNC. As I noted in another post, a convention is a commercial for the party holding the convention. You admit that there were protests, in and around the convention, by Bernie delegates against the party's nominee. It's easy to find videos of speakers having to deal with that (an African-American congresswoman having to depart from her script saying, "I respect you, so please respect me", or Sarah Silverman berating protestors from the podium). All of that was a commercial for Donald Trump.
So the protestors got their wish. Hillary Clinton was not elected President. Don't tell me they gave a d*mn about the consequences (which were foreseeable, and we're seeing now).
Now you're moving the goalposts and talking about protests "at" the convention -- meaning outside the convention. These protests involved anyone who wanted to show up, and your attempt to conflate protesters outside the convention with "Sanders delegates" is blatantly dishonest.
There are protesters outside all conventions. They are a given, an assumption, for all elections. They don't determine outcomes. So whatever these protesters "wished," their actions at the convention had nothing to do with Hillary's loss. Her loss was caused by an elitist, arrogant, clueless, scapegoating campaign that turned workers off and failed to motivate women and blacks; coming from the same mindset that appears in your posts.
I posted a contemporaneous news account about the protests. I'm not "moving the goalposts". The delegates protesting on the convention floor is not the same as "protesters outside all conventions". You're just denying reality.
Your final sentence isn't grounded in reality, which means your lame insult of me looks silly. And in general, don't insult posters like that, because that's a dead giveaway that you're on the wrong side of the discussion.
Yes, protesting the Democratic Party's nominee and arguing that people shouldn't vote for her DID have that result.
author said:
Depriving the country of a sane person with years of experience and opening the door to what and whom we have now.........that is the real problem
nohero said:
nan said:
Nohero - Let me repeat this in case you are not getting it. When it comes to allegations against Bernie supporters -- show me a video or I don't consider it real. End of story.
There were protests at the convention because the Progressives were treated horribly. Where is your anger at the DNC? Never happens. A candidate signs a secret document to get the nomination and all you care about is shutting up the protesters to this disaster.
There is video, there are photographs, of delegates on the floor booing and protesting. There were protests at the convention because the protesters didn't want Hillary to be the nominee - and they protested even after she was nominated. You keep asking "Where is your anger at the DNC?" You keep deflecting from the real problem - childish people who acted like children at the convention and were happy that Hillary lost.
Of course there were protests. What is at issue is that you said Sanders delegates chanted "Lock her up" in the convention. Until you can find corroboration for the single, vague report you cited, you should retract the statement.
nohero said:
Yes, protesting the Democratic Party's nominee and arguing that people shouldn't vote for her DID have that result.
author said:
Depriving the country of a sane person with years of experience and opening the door to what and whom we have now.........that is the real problem
That woman had more baggage than most freight trains........private server e mails when Secy of State
Charging for facetime paid to the Clinton Fund
Classic carpetbagger.....moved from Chicago to chase an opening Senate seat
Do you think she would have been elected had her name been Hillary Jones
Ran the most inept campaign since the second half of the Dukakis effort
Trump did not win the prize..........She thought she was foreordained and lost it
paulsurovell said:
nohero said:
There is video, there are photographs, of delegates on the floor booing and protesting. There were protests at the convention because the protesters didn't want Hillary to be the nominee - and they protested even after she was nominated. You keep asking "Where is your anger at the DNC?" You keep deflecting from the real problem - childish people who acted like children at the convention and were happy that Hillary lost.
Of course there were protests. What is at issue is that you said Sanders delegates chanted "Lock her up" in the convention. Until you can find corroboration for the single, vague report you cited, you should retract the statement.
I'm sorry, I'm not going to accede to your demand.
I cited news reports, with "Lock her up" as just one of the examples of Bernie delegates protesting. At least, now it's clear that as long as there's no video of Bernie delegates chanting "Lock her up", you're fine with everything else that took place on the floor (including booing the prayer, booing African-American elected officials, booing anyone else speaking positively about the nominee, changing the "Clinton" signs put out for the last night into "Liar" signs, etc.).
paulsurovell said:
What is at issue is that you [nohero] said Sanders delegates chanted "Lock her up" in the convention.
Not that I can find. Then again, I’ve been distracted by far less important points.
DaveSchmidt said:
paulsurovell said:Not that I can find. Then again, I’ve been distracted by far less important points.
What is at issue is that you [nohero] said Sanders delegates chanted "Lock her up" in the convention.
Not that it's video, just a reporter spending time with a Bernie delegate on the floor of the convention.
In an arena filled with disgusted Bernie Sanders supporters, Yolanda Gonzalez, a Los Angeles delegate for Sanders, repeatedly screamed ‘Lock her up!’ as speakers droned on about party unity.
It was a chant aired frequently during the Republican convention in Cleveland, which featured speech after speech about Benghazi and Clinton’s scandals.
‘Basically, Hillary has gotten away with things that regular other citizens haven’t been able to. She compromised the security of this nation. By having emails on her personal server,’ Gonzalez told DailyMail.com, in between bouts of yelling during the frequent lively breaks that interrupted speeches when Clinton got mentioned.
In mathematics, that would be an indirect proof. Mr. Surovell claims no delegate was chanting "Lock her up" on the convention floor. Finding an example of a delegate chanting "Lock her up" on the convention floor disproves his claim and proves that they did chant it.
paulsurovell said:
What is at issue is that you [nohero] said Sanders delegates chanted "Lock her up" in the convention.
I stand corrected. I’ve found it now.
Don't know about chanting but Author believes she should be locked up.
Hillary Clinton was a successful US Senator and then Secretary of State. The Right-Wing has run a vicious and false personal campaign against her for years. But even if every single allegation against her was true anyone who would not choose her over the Spawn of Satan was either obsessed with money, racist, or completely unaware of this scumbag's history.
And the idea that a Jewish Socialist who honeymooned in the Soviet Union and has an illegitimate child would have easily defeated the Spawn of Satan is, IMHO, absurd.
nohero said:
paulsurovell said:
nohero said:
There is video, there are photographs, of delegates on the floor booing and protesting. There were protests at the convention because the protesters didn't want Hillary to be the nominee - and they protested even after she was nominated. You keep asking "Where is your anger at the DNC?" You keep deflecting from the real problem - childish people who acted like children at the convention and were happy that Hillary lost.
Of course there were protests. What is at issue is that you said Sanders delegates chanted "Lock her up" in the convention. Until you can find corroboration for the single, vague report you cited, you should retract the statement.
I'm sorry, I'm not going to accede to your demand.
I cited news reports, with "Lock her up" as just one of the examples of Bernie delegates protesting. At least, now it's clear that as long as there's no video of Bernie delegates chanting "Lock her up", you're fine with everything else that took place on the floor (including booing the prayer, booing African-American elected officials, booing anyone else speaking positively about the nominee, changing the "Clinton" signs put out for the last night into "Liar" signs, etc.).
You made what -- in the absence of confirmation -- is a false charge and you're trying weasel-word your way out of it. Sure there were protests inside the convention. I would have objected to the undetermined number of "Liar" signs, but booing in conventions comes with the territory. I would have chanted and held up a "No More War!" sign, something that Hillary delegates shamefully regarded as anathema. In this connection, your refusal to condemn Democratic senators for approving Trump's request for $54 billion more military spending and then adding $26 billion more than he asked for shows that your toadyism is more important to you than your purported opposition to Trump.
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I assume you're talking about the voting on the next Defense Authorization. I don't have an opinion on what the Senate passed. It's my understanding that there's a House version, as well. It's also my understanding that none of this is finalized. It's also my understanding that there's all sorts of stuff in a bill like that, and just talking a bottom-line number doesn't seem productive. It would make more sense to talk about what the money is being spent on, and also what non-dollar provisions there are (such as with respect to what the President can and cannot do). So with all that (and the fact that it's a tangent from what the discussion is about), I'm done.