Witnessed a nasty accident at Springfield and Valley yesterday.

So, I was sitting in Manny's restaurant yesterday, finishing up a meal with a friend of mine, sipping my coffee and happened to look out the window at the intersection at the exact moment that a violent accident occurred (fortunately and amazingly no one was injured).

It was the first time I had seen an accident actually occur right in front of me and everything they say about seeing such things in slow motion in true. In that millisecond I had the distinct and calm observational thought of "Oh that car is going to hit that truck".

A landscaper in his pickup had come out of the jug-handle clearly with the green light in his favor and was crossing Springfield to get onto Valley. He'd already passed the waiting traffic on his left and had almost made it across all the way when another vehicle coming down Springfield (towards 78, past Manny's window) ran the red light at a good rate of speed (at least 40 mph) and slammed into the pickup's passenger rear panel, lifting the trucks' wheels, spinning the whole thing, almost flipping it over and bouncing the contents of the truck bed, -a twelve foot tree with balled roots, shovels and a leaf blower onto the road. The front end of the red-light-runner flew apart in pieces while the momentum kept it going another fifty feet until the driver could pull it over on the inside shoulder .

Everybody in Manny's stood up. A waitress (who had been outside on a cig break) and I went out to clear the shovels and leaf blower from the middle of the road. Both drivers were already out of their vehicles using their cell phones and somebody else had already helped the guy put the tree back in the truck although it was clear from the bent wheel that he wasn't going anywhere.

The waitress, still with her cigarette in her mouth, handed him the leaf blower and told him rather casually that she sees an accident there every week.

I told the guy that I saw what had happened but he already had a witness standing there and since there was no one hurt I turned back to Manny's, left a tip on the table and we split.

BTW: The offending driver had two small kids sitting rather calmly in their car seats in the back and I could see that the driver's airbag had gone off. Years ago with lesser safety equipment or a lesser car I'm certain that there would have been bodily harm. The front end of her car was completely destroyed.

As a side note: In thinking about it later I thought about the element of "eyewitness testimony". It was interesting what I could recall with great accuracy and what I could not, -the landscaper had a pimple on the ridge of his nose and the handle of the shovel was blue but I couldn't tell you which waitress it was. Weird.

Now of course I'll be thinking about the incident every time I go through that intersection or have a meal at Manny's.

Wow. What a scary thing to witness - and what a miracle that everyone walked away okay!!

Steel - what do you make of it? Did the driver who ran the light say anything about what happened? Is there some reason the driver would not have seen the light

hauscat, I'd only be darkly speculating about why the driver ran the red. When I was at the scene she was on the opposite side of Springfield from me (traffic now trying to get between the two smashed vehicles) and she was standing outside her driver's door talking on her cell. In other words, I couldn't hear her and she was clearly ok so no need to speak to her. I figured the cops would soon work it all out.

I can just imagine the Union police getting the call and saying to themselves, "Again, that intersection".

This is why I favor red light cameras. There are too many intersections where drivers blow through red lights at full-speed. Rolling right turns on red, I don't care about, but the people going straight who enter the intersection after the light turns red should be harshly penalized.

steel said:
So, I was sitting in Manny's restaurant yesterday, finishing up a meal with a friend of mine, sipping my coffee and happened to look out the window at the intersection at the exact moment that a violent accident occurred (fortunately and amazingly no one was injured).
It was the first time I had seen an accident actually occur right in front of me and everything they say about seeing such things in slow motion in true. In that millisecond I had the distinct and calm observational thought of "Oh that car is going to hit that truck".
A landscaper in his pickup had come out of the jug-handle clearly with the green light in his favor and was crossing Springfield to get onto Valley. He'd already passed the waiting traffic on his left and had almost made it across all the way when another vehicle coming down Springfield (towards 78, past Manny's window) ran the red light at a good rate of speed (at least 40 mph) and slammed into the pickup's passenger rear panel, lifting the trucks' wheels, spinning the whole thing, almost flipping it over and bouncing the contents of the truck bed, -a twelve foot tree with balled roots, shovels and a leaf blower onto the road. The front end of the red-light-runner flew apart in pieces while the momentum kept it going another fifty feet until the driver could pull it over on the inside shoulder .
Everybody in Manny's stood up. A waitress (who had been outside on a cig break) and I went out to clear the shovels and leaf blower from the middle of the road. Both drivers were already out of their vehicles using their cell phones and somebody else had already helped the guy put the tree back in the truck although it was clear from the bent wheel that he wasn't going anywhere.
The waitress, still with her cigarette in her mouth, handed him the leaf blower and told him rather casually that she sees an accident there every week.
I told the guy that I saw what had happened but he already had a witness standing there and since there was no one hurt I turned back to Manny's, left a tip on the table and we split.
BTW: The offedning driver had two small kids sitting rather calmly in their car seats in the back and I could see that the driver's airbag had gone off. Years ago with lesser safety equipment or a lesser car I'm certain that there would have been bodily harm. The front end of her car was completely destroyed.
As a side note: In thinking about it later I thought about the element of "eyewitness testimony". It was interesting what I could recall with great accuracy and what I could not, -the landscaper had a pimple on the ridge of his nose and the handle of the shovel was blue but I couldn't tell you which waitress it was. Weird.
Now of course I'll be thinking about the incident every time I go through that intersection or have a meal at Manny's.

My son was in an accident at this location a few months ago. He was cut off by an SUV making a left turn as he was crossing Springfield on a green light. He was driving a car he had for only 3 months, all the airbags deployed. He was shaken but only had bruising on his legs and arms; essentially from the airbags. His car was totalled. Since then I have seen 3 more accidents at this intersection. I no longer use that jug handle.

tjohn said:
This is why I favor red light cameras. There are too many intersections where drivers blow through red lights at full-speed. Rolling right turns on red, I don't care about, but the people going straight who enter the intersection after the light turns red should be harshly penalized.

Really? I don't think I'd need both hands to count the number of people I've seen blow through red lights at full speed.

Anyhow, that's not where the money's at - they need to catch people who entered the intersection .01 seconds too late or only stopped for 2 seconds instead of 3 before going right on red or broke the plane of the white stop line by a centimeter. The numbers just don't work otherwise.

I notice it quite a bit as well, mostly when the light has just turned red. I tend to be a little, um, bullish about getting through yellow lights, so when if I've slowed to a stop and someone still goes past me through it I know they're going pretty fast!

RobB said:

tjohn said:
This is why I favor red light cameras. There are too many intersections where drivers blow through red lights at full-speed. Rolling right turns on red, I don't care about, but the people going straight who enter the intersection after the light turns red should be harshly penalized.

Really? I don't think I'd need both hands to count the number of people I've seen blow through red lights at full speed.
Anyhow, that's not where the money's at - they need to catch people who entered the intersection .01 seconds too late or only stopped for 2 seconds instead of 3 before going right on red or broke the plane of the white stop line by a centimeter. The numbers just don't work otherwise.

Every day, I see drivers going straight enter intersections after the light is clearly no longer orange.

I also support to use of cameras in the interests of public safety, not revenue, but I suppose that won't happen.

tjohn said:

I also support to use of cameras in the interests of public safety, not revenue

LOL

The waitress, still with her cigarette in her mouth, handed him the leaf blower and told him rather casually that she sees an accident there every week.

Pretty much the exact same accident happened there a couple months ago and one of the cars involved side-swiped our car (my husband was driving and he was the first car waiting at the intersection coming from Valley).

I was going through this intersection a few months ago with my son in the car. Since he would be using that jug-handle to get to school I decided to have a teachable moment with parental advice on the possibilities of "what could" happen. We were the second car in line at the light. Our light turns green and the car in front of us starts to go through the intersection. As I am explaining to him the that a good rule of thumb is that if you are the first car you should count to 3 and even if not the first car look both ways before driving into this particular intersection, due to red light runners on Springfield, a car going westbound on Springfield runs the light. Great way to have my point proven, and while not the the way I would have chosen it did impress the heck out of him!

Is there a defect in that intersection that might cause a westbound driver (on Springfield) not to see the red light?

Ok so I am surprised that no one has mentioned the obvious. If there was ever an intersection that needed a turn arrow this is it. I've thought this for years. A line of cars always backs up on valley waiting to turn left because of both Springfield ave traffic as well as the jughandle traffic. If one or two waiting cars can turn left that's a lot. Not surprised there are multiple accidents.

So sorry you witnessed this but relieved to hear everyone is ok.

As an aside, that is a terrible left to make from Valley onto Springfield, as most people might know. Even though it's so much quicker to get to HD and Target, I rarely go that way. Why is there no left turn arrow? Everyone is forced to speed through or sit and wait. I had a guy go around me as I didn't make the light and illegally turned left on red to get through that light. Crazy intersection.

No Tom, let's face it, I believe that the worst defects at that intersection are the same as most, -impatience, frustration and distraction.

Unfortunately because of the unusual nature of that particular meeting-of-the-roads it only makes dire consequences occur more often.

I think posters here are also right about the need for a left turn signal from Valley although that had nothing to do with the accident yesterday.

In the 3 years we've lived here I've driven around town every day and the only accident I've ever seen is at that intersection--similar slow motion situation, very scary. I avoid driving through there at all costs. Glad everyone was okay, though.

smithfield5 said:
I was going through this intersection a few months ago with my son in the car. Since he would be using that jug-handle to get to school I decided to have a teachable moment with parental advice on the possibilities of "what could" happen. We were the second car in line at the light. Our light turns green and the car in front of us starts to go through the intersection. As I am explaining to him the that a good rule of thumb is that if you are the first car you should count to 3 and even if not the first car look both ways before driving into this particular intersection, due to red light runners on Springfield, a car going westbound on Springfield runs the light. Great way to have my point proven, and while not the the way I would have chosen it did impress the heck out of him!

^^ This is smart-- and is exactly what my husband did in my above post about when he got hit at this intersection. Had he gone immediately into the intersection when the light turned green, he probably would have been seriously injured. Since he hung back, only the front bumper got destroyed.

I almost never go through the jug handle anymore to cross Springfield. That intersection is a logistical mess. It needs to be reconfigured. Cars coming down Valley towards Springfield should not be allowed to turn left onto Springfield.

There is a sort of perfect storm multiple bad scenarios that are possible at that intersection.

I've also seen the remnants of two other accidents there, witnessed multiple people make an illegal left onto Valley from east-bound Springfield (thus avoiding the jug handle) and all sorts-of reckless moves.

The real doozy I saw one day was while waiting at the east-bound light of Springfield I saw someone out of the corner of my eye come out of the Granite store turn LEFT thus heading AGAINST the west-bound traffic and then cross the entire intersection on a diagonal in front of me so as to get into the east-bound lane. WTF?

steel said:
No Tom, let's face it, I believe that the worst defects at that intersection are the same as most, -impatience, frustration and distraction.
Unfortunately because of the unusual nature of that particular meeting-of-the-roads it only makes dire consequences occur more often.
I think posters here are also right about the need for a left turn signal from Valley although that had nothing to do with the accident yesterday.

You're absolutely right. People just don't pay attention well enough. They are not thinking of dangers and consequences.

I just sold my car. I'm free!

yahooyahoo said:
I almost never go through the jug handle anymore to cross Springfield. That intersection is a logistical mess. It needs to be reconfigured. Cars coming down Valley towards Springfield should not be allowed to turn left onto Springfield.

The problem is there's really not a great way to get there otherwise unless theough side streets. From one of the earlier lefts (forgot if Vauxhall or the other) you can't turn right on Springfield once you get up there. And if you're past the Valley/Springfield intersection and can't turn left and have to turn right, there's not a place for a turnaround for a long time.

I avoid making that left too but I'm just pointing out that depending on where you're coming from and how familiar you are there's not always an easy alternative

The thing is... it's just not that hard. All of these accidents are caused by folks being ignorant jackasses and/or disregarding the very basic laws of the road.

I actually find that set of lights REALLY hard to read; there's a weird angle/glare on them so I always approach with extreme caution before going through (westbound on Springfield).

But are you safe Miss Gradenko?

If they don't ban left hand turns then they should at least give the cars turning left onto Springfield a green arrow first. I can't count how many times a crazy driver turned left in front of me as I crossed Springfield onto Valley because they were desperate/stupid.

TarheelsInNj said:

yahooyahoo said:
I almost never go through the jug handle anymore to cross Springfield. That intersection is a logistical mess. It needs to be reconfigured. Cars coming down Valley towards Springfield should not be allowed to turn left onto Springfield.

The problem is there's really not a great way to get there otherwise unless theough side streets. From one of the earlier lefts (forgot if Vauxhall or the other) you can't turn right on Springfield once you get up there. And if you're past the Valley/Springfield intersection and can't turn left and have to turn right, there's not a place for a turnaround for a long time.
I avoid making that left too but I'm just pointing out that depending on where you're coming from and how familiar you are there's not always an easy alternative

MissGradenko said:
I actually find that set of lights REALLY hard to read; there's a weird angle/glare on them so I always approach with extreme caution before going through (westbound on Springfield).

It's one of those flat-looking lights that switches from incredibly bright to invisible depending on your angle.

Example:

I usually take the side streets through there rather than go up Vauxhall or all the way on Valley to Springfield. I don't know of any place where you are prevented from making a right turn on Springfield Ave from a side street, but there is at least one where you aren't allowed to make a left (just past the Target/Whole Food entrance.)

Just letting my feelings show ; )

ctrzaska said:
But are you safe Miss Gradenko?

Sac, the street you are referring to is "Arcadia Place" which has its' own problems (I'm sure especially for the residents ever since Home Depot etc opened up). It is quite a popular cut-through.

Meanwhile, I have to share that I wrote the initial post not so much to warn folks of a particular local intersection (of which I think we are all too sadly aware) but that I also felt compelled to write down and relate a particularly unusual experience.

I kept seeing that trucks' wheels lift off the ground in my minds' eye and the image became easier to store away if I wrote it down.

I hope I can be forgiven (particularly since no one was hurt) for saying that although it was a bit disturbing, I must also confess that it was, well, kind-of cool (if that's the right word) to witness. There, I said it.

Did I mention the loud unique "WHUMP" sound that such as impact makes?

And so it goes.