Who should i call to stop/prevent rain water from coming through my chimney? archived
Mar 15, 2010 at 7:51am
I'm not sure about a lot of what you are asking, but I can definitely say a chimney liner has nothing to do with water leaking in. Chimney liners are all about keeping sparks and heat from setting fire to your house. I also thought chimney caps are installed to make sure sparks that fly up the chimney don't land on the roof, not about rain. But I could be wrong about that.
For the rest, it sounds to me as if you might need to have some of the bricks replaced, get tuck-pointing done to make sure all the mortar is providing a good seal, and check to be sure you have adequate flashing where the chimney meets the walls and roof to make sure rain can't get in there, either.
I would have thought a mason could handle all this, but I'm not 100% sure.
Anyone else?
For the rest, it sounds to me as if you might need to have some of the bricks replaced, get tuck-pointing done to make sure all the mortar is providing a good seal, and check to be sure you have adequate flashing where the chimney meets the walls and roof to make sure rain can't get in there, either.
I would have thought a mason could handle all this, but I'm not 100% sure.
Anyone else?
peggy c,
what you've said makes a lot of sense. my husband suspects same (i.e. the problem is NOT the lack of a cap or liner) and thinks it is the brick work. we've been told in the past that we may also need a silicone spray over the bricks to provide a seal as well.
we do have a good mason but think it's too dangerous for him to work on the chimney w/o scaffolding. does anyone know a good scaffolding company?
btw, what is "tuck-pointing"? who do i use for "flashing" if that is indeed the problem?
what you've said makes a lot of sense. my husband suspects same (i.e. the problem is NOT the lack of a cap or liner) and thinks it is the brick work. we've been told in the past that we may also need a silicone spray over the bricks to provide a seal as well.
we do have a good mason but think it's too dangerous for him to work on the chimney w/o scaffolding. does anyone know a good scaffolding company?
btw, what is "tuck-pointing"? who do i use for "flashing" if that is indeed the problem?
Tuck-pointing is where they chisel out old mortar from between the bricks and replace it with new mortar. As mortar ages, it can get crumbly and more porous, so it would start letting water in. For the flashing, I'm not sure who would handle it. When we had a leak at a spot where a wall joined the roof on a lower level, we called in a contractor, and he and his crew did a good job on that. But if it's flashing next to a chimney, I'm not sure who would handle it best. It might be a good idea to talk to a contractor such as R&G, who handle all kinds of construction work.
Why don't you talk to your mason? He might know how to arrange for scaffolding if it's needed.
And I'm no expert on any of this, so don't take my word as gospel for construction matters. I'm hoping someone else who's more knowledgeable will chime in and either confirm what I suggested or tell me I'm all wrong. It could go either way. :tooth:
Why don't you talk to your mason? He might know how to arrange for scaffolding if it's needed.
And I'm no expert on any of this, so don't take my word as gospel for construction matters. I'm hoping someone else who's more knowledgeable will chime in and either confirm what I suggested or tell me I'm all wrong. It could go either way. :tooth:
i'm glad now i know what the technical word is for what i would like to do: "tuck pointing". i really think this is the main culprit. i will talk to my mason as he and his son are really good with brick work and we have a 200-year old house.
do you have R&G's number and are they reasonable cost-wise?
i think for the flashing next to the chimney, it may be a roofer's job.
do you have R&G's number and are they reasonable cost-wise?
i think for the flashing next to the chimney, it may be a roofer's job.
I haven't used R&G, but I know a few people who have and were satisfied with the work they did. I'm pretty sure they have an ad on this board in the services section. We did have them come in to give us a quote on some work we wanted done at one time, and the quote was in line with others, although we chose to go with someone else.
If you are looking for a contractor, try checking some of the other threads on MOL that talk about contractors. That will help you find a few to give you bids on the work. Just do a search for "contractor." If it were me, I would have a few people come to look at the chimney and talk to you about what they think the problem is and how they would address it. In this case, price is less important than really taking care of the problem, in my opinion.
If you are looking for a contractor, try checking some of the other threads on MOL that talk about contractors. That will help you find a few to give you bids on the work. Just do a search for "contractor." If it were me, I would have a few people come to look at the chimney and talk to you about what they think the problem is and how they would address it. In this case, price is less important than really taking care of the problem, in my opinion.
Give Elite Chimney a call. They repointed our two large chimneys and redid our chimney crowns as well as installed very nice copper caps with screens. They will be able to professionally evaluate your issues and tell you what work needs to be done.
They will not be the cheapest for a reason.
http://www.elitechimneyrestoration.com/home.html
They will not be the cheapest for a reason.
http://www.elitechimneyrestoration.com/home.html
Tuck pointing is a specific technique/style for pointing / re-pointing of the mortar where the surface of the mortar joint is removed and new mortar is inserted into the joint to make your brick nicer looking and to hold in the remaining mortar from falling out. this may or may not be the source of the leaks. Brick in general is not waterproofed. You can spray silicone on it but it will only last a couple of years. Any chimney contractor/ mason / roofer should be able to help you out...flashing is usually lead or copper around the base of the chimney to seal up the joint where it meets the roof
Paola,
You asked about this on the other thread, but I'll respond here as this is now a more focused discussion. I pretty much agree with above. If your mason doesn't have scaffolding, or can't get it, don't use them for the job. I would not undertake that responsibility myself. Get someone who has experience dealing with chimneys. I haven't used any local chimney companies. So many of them have bad reputations, but the name Elite does come up frequently as a good source.
I'm having my waterproofer check my chimney out as he's also a masonry contractor. If you want to call him, his name is George Di Bello (800) 334-1822. I'm at a complete loss to understand why water is seeping down the brickwork into my house despite solid (and relatively new) flashing. Plus I get water in my furnace flue (the part of the chimney used to ventilate carbon monoxide from the furnace), and I have no idea where that comes from either. Hopefully George can figure it out and resolve it.
Good luck!
You asked about this on the other thread, but I'll respond here as this is now a more focused discussion. I pretty much agree with above. If your mason doesn't have scaffolding, or can't get it, don't use them for the job. I would not undertake that responsibility myself. Get someone who has experience dealing with chimneys. I haven't used any local chimney companies. So many of them have bad reputations, but the name Elite does come up frequently as a good source.
I'm having my waterproofer check my chimney out as he's also a masonry contractor. If you want to call him, his name is George Di Bello (800) 334-1822. I'm at a complete loss to understand why water is seeping down the brickwork into my house despite solid (and relatively new) flashing. Plus I get water in my furnace flue (the part of the chimney used to ventilate carbon monoxide from the furnace), and I have no idea where that comes from either. Hopefully George can figure it out and resolve it.
Good luck!
terminator3, is silicone spraying a common practice nowadays? i think we got a quote 3-4 years ago from a roofer for $3,000 to have it done so it's not cheap, esp for something that is not permanent. it makes sense, though, to seal the porous bricks with silicone. however, if this practice was not done 200 years ago when this house was built and it is still standing, then maybe it is not absolutely necessary.
jonsel, my masonry guys are father and son team who have done a lot of our outside brick passageways so they don't have the equipment to do the scaffolding. they do a great job, though, for a very reasonable price. too bad. i will give george a call. after he comes to see you (when?), can you repost what he has discovered and how he thinks he can solve the problem? i suspect we may have similar issues.
there must be something specifically wrong with my chimney for this great water seepage to have happened b/c there are a lot of old brick houses out there and i can't imagine all of them having this much water in their fireplaces like ours.
jonsel, my masonry guys are father and son team who have done a lot of our outside brick passageways so they don't have the equipment to do the scaffolding. they do a great job, though, for a very reasonable price. too bad. i will give george a call. after he comes to see you (when?), can you repost what he has discovered and how he thinks he can solve the problem? i suspect we may have similar issues.
there must be something specifically wrong with my chimney for this great water seepage to have happened b/c there are a lot of old brick houses out there and i can't imagine all of them having this much water in their fireplaces like ours.
my chimney was leaking water from the brickwork inside the house when it rained. not as much as it sounds like yours, but a guest staying at my place noticed it (in the guest room...) and mentioned i might want to take a look at it. we called elite chimney, they repointed everything, took pics of the work (so no one had to go up there and see what they'd done) and were all in all great imo. no problems since then. wouldn't call it dirt cheap, but didn't feel like a place to cut corners.
silicone spray for $3000???!!!!! for your chimney?? How big is your chimney. I had it done it may have cost me $80. Somebody is trying to rip you off. We used E and M Maintenance for our chimney work... in my case instead of installing the proper flashing they just tarred around the base as a temporary fix... since my roof will need to be replaced in a couple of years anyways, the roofer can install new flashing.... You may just have some big gaps or missing mortar in your brick... i would repoint the whole thing and see where it goes from there.
Jack Williams and Sons,Summit,N.J. It could be your chimney crown,the uppermost flat top of the chimney,which is your trouble.A chimney cap not only keeps rain from going down but also any errant squirrels or birds due to the screening which is a component of the cap.Also your step and counter flashing should be checked as well as the cricket on the back of the chimney where it meets the roof.
georgieboy, hi are you from jack williams? thanks for the education and i am learning a lot here. i will call to make an appointment. is there a fee for a diagnosis/estimate?
could it also be a defective chimney damper? what is the difference b/w a damper and a cap? ideally, does a chimney need both?
Yes, a chimney should have both. The damper is inside the chimney, close to the fire box, and it's what controls the flow of air up and down the chimney. When it's open, the smoke is able to escape. When it's closed, it keeps air and other things from the outside world (such as squirrels, birds, and leaves) from entering your house by way of the fireplace.
The chimney cap is outside, at the very top of your chimney. It keeps foreign objects from coming down your chimney, and also prevents sparks from flying out of the chimney and landing on your roof. But I don't think the lack of a chimney cap would have let in as much rain as you said was collecting in your fireplace.
The chimney cap is outside, at the very top of your chimney. It keeps foreign objects from coming down your chimney, and also prevents sparks from flying out of the chimney and landing on your roof. But I don't think the lack of a chimney cap would have let in as much rain as you said was collecting in your fireplace.
Oh, and dampers aren't usually watertight, especially in these older homes. I don't think even a perfectly working damper would keep all the rain out.
paola,No,I have no affiliation at all other than a satisfied customer.I do have a background in construction so I am familiar with the coponents that make up the flashing system on most chimneys.A damper regulates the amount of heated air going up and out your chimney {draft]and a chimney cap is a little roof with wire mesh usually thumb screwed on to the clay liner which sticks up 2-4" above the crown at the very top of the chimney.They are two separate and distinct things.Next time you are out,start paying attention to different chimneys and I'm sure you will see what I am referring to.
georgieboy, thanks. i know i'm a little obsessed with chimneys right now and have been looking at many of them while driving. i better stop before i get into an accident! btw, most of the chimneys i've seen in older homes don't have caps.
peggyc, so let's say if a chimney doesn't have a "cap" (many chimneys i've been observing don't appear to have one) and the dampers aren't watertight, then what's keeping the rain out of most chimneys??
peggyc, so let's say if a chimney doesn't have a "cap" (many chimneys i've been observing don't appear to have one) and the dampers aren't watertight, then what's keeping the rain out of most chimneys??
Usually, there isn't enough rain focused on a small area (such as the opening of a chimney) for it to be a problem. If just a few drops fall down a chimney, they will land on the damper (if they get that far) and then evaporate.
If you think about it, the opening of most chimneys is a pretty small target, so how much rain could really get into it during a normal rainfall?
At least, that's my theory. Anyone have a better answer? Is there something else in chimneys I don't know about?
If you think about it, the opening of most chimneys is a pretty small target, so how much rain could really get into it during a normal rainfall?
At least, that's my theory. Anyone have a better answer? Is there something else in chimneys I don't know about?
My theory is that it is leaking in around the clay liner and traveling down along the outside of the liner and than migrating into your fireplace.We had the same leak in the fireplace and also moisture staining the block wall of the chimney in the utility room.We had a pc of 8"x8" clay liner replaced,a new crown,2 stainless steel caps and a re-pointing of the joints and have been problem free since.
Mar 25, 2010 at 4:14pm Edited
hi, just wanted to give you an update to our chimney problems. we called 2 companies to come give estimates. elite came by with 3 people to look around; they didn't use any equipment to inspect the chimneys. they sent us a nice looking letter 2 days later containing their estimate: $25,000 to redo the 2 chimneys.
Jack Williams & Sons had 2 people (primarily 1 person and 1 assistant) who spent an hour here climbing up chimneys to inspect and gave us an estimate on the spot: $1,575 plus tax. They didn't think the chimneys were in bad shape at all, just some repointing and crown sealing done at the top as well as applying a "chimney saver" water repellent spray.
guess who got the job? they came today (2 days after the estimate) and was finished by end of the day. the key is to wait for the next rainstorm to see what happens.
thanks, everyone, for your inputs. much appreciated.
Jack Williams & Sons had 2 people (primarily 1 person and 1 assistant) who spent an hour here climbing up chimneys to inspect and gave us an estimate on the spot: $1,575 plus tax. They didn't think the chimneys were in bad shape at all, just some repointing and crown sealing done at the top as well as applying a "chimney saver" water repellent spray.
guess who got the job? they came today (2 days after the estimate) and was finished by end of the day. the key is to wait for the next rainstorm to see what happens.
thanks, everyone, for your inputs. much appreciated.
Holy CRAP! I don't think I've ever heard of such a huge gap between bids! Phew. Fingers crossed for the next storm, Paola.
Posted By: PeggyCHoly CRAP! I don't think I've ever heard of such a huge gap between bids!
It happens when you compare apples to oranges!
Well, sure, but it's amazing to me that one company tells her the chimney has to be rebuilt, while the other says it's not in bad shape. Bit of a disconnect between opinions there!
how big was your chimney that it cost $1500 to repoint it.... did they do it top to bottom?
Posted By: PeggyCWell, sure, but it's amazing to me that one company tells her the chimney has to be rebuilt, while the other says it's not in bad shape. Bit of a disconnect between opinions there!
That's when a third (or more) opinion is warranted.
Mar 25, 2010 at 6:09pm Edited
we didn't go for a third opinion b/c in both proposals, the description of what needs to be done are the same! seemed like there was a consensus here. we assumed that since they both came to the same conclusions as to what could possibly be the problem and offered identical solutions (e.g. repointing the bricks, replace the "spalded" bricks, do a crown seal and spray with a water repellent, etc.), then we should just go with the cheapest one. if they each had different diagnosis and solution, then we would have to get a third opinion. here, it seemed they both agreed on problem and solutions.
terminator3, $1,500 was for work on 2 large chimneys that include repointing, replacing spalded bricks, redo crown seal, water repellent spray and other cement work to plug up holes around chimney.
hopefully, we'll see soon whether the work from this company holds up but so far the company was very professional and efficient and easy to deal with. i felt comfortable choosing them given that their diagnosis and solution were the same as the more expensive company but at a significantly lower price. even if their work doesn't solve my problem 100%, blowing $1,500 would probably help 95% of the water leakage issue and wouldn't cause me to lose sleep compared to the $25,000 solution.
terminator3, $1,500 was for work on 2 large chimneys that include repointing, replacing spalded bricks, redo crown seal, water repellent spray and other cement work to plug up holes around chimney.
hopefully, we'll see soon whether the work from this company holds up but so far the company was very professional and efficient and easy to deal with. i felt comfortable choosing them given that their diagnosis and solution were the same as the more expensive company but at a significantly lower price. even if their work doesn't solve my problem 100%, blowing $1,500 would probably help 95% of the water leakage issue and wouldn't cause me to lose sleep compared to the $25,000 solution.
okay good luck..... how did it hold up in the rain last night? so the 25k quote was not for rebuilding the chimney but basically patch repoint and replace brick... and the term is "spalled" brick.......
Whoa. I don't know why, but I had assumed the $25k would be to completely rebuild the chimneys. It was the only thing I could think of that would justify that cost. But you say the work proposed was exactly the same? That's ridiculous.
i checked the fireplaces this morning and they were completely dry. however, i don't think last night's rain was the true test of the chimney work. i am secretly wishing for wind-driven, monsoon-like rain soon to see if the work holds up. can't wait to get rid of old newspapers lining the fireplaces.
the bulk of the $25K estimates ($13K-18K) was for repointing bricks (replacing lost mortars) and replacing spalled bricks. there was no discussion of rebuilding the chimneys. my chimneys are big but i think are of standard size for the house.
the bulk of the $25K estimates ($13K-18K) was for repointing bricks (replacing lost mortars) and replacing spalled bricks. there was no discussion of rebuilding the chimneys. my chimneys are big but i think are of standard size for the house.
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now that we are all assessing the damage from this weekend's storm, i would like to have recommendations for whom i should call to help fix this problem with my fireplace and chimney. i had inches of rain water collected inside 2 fireplaces which seeped downstairs. needless to say, i was up all night saturday putting towels and newspaper in the fireplaces to soak up the water before more damage happen. i am desperately hoping to fix this problem before the next storm b/c this is too much work.
here is the problem. when there is regular rain, i noticed no water seepage inside the fireplaces. everything is mostly dry even though the brick walls may be a little damp. however, when there is a major storm where there is rain and heavy wind, i would notice a lot of water coming down the side of of the brick fireplace. this past weekend storm, there were several inches of water that i had to frantically soak up before it seeps down to the ceiling below.
i was told a long time ago that i need to have a chimney "cap" to prevent rain water from coming down. however, if this is true, then why wouldn't the fireplaces get wet with regular rainfall? this only happens when there is a lot of wind with the rainfall.
from inspecting the chimneys on the outside, i do notice some chipping in the cement joints (it's a brick house with a brick chimney) around the chimney and some broken pieces of bricks. maybe the rain water is coming through these holes/cracks?
here is the question: who is the best person to call to fix this problem? is it masonry who fix all the bricks? i have someone really good but then i would have to call a company to build a scaffold so that he can work up in the roof area. is it a general contractor who can build a scaffold and fix the bricks and possibly chimney liner? is it a waterproofer? i was told also that perhaps the chimney needs to be siliconed on the outside? do i need a chimney "specialist"?
so much to think about so where do i start? who am i going to call? any names and phone numbers would be greatly appreciated. thanks.