What Devin Nunes Learned at the White House and Told Donald Trump
I wish people who believe in the Deep State were better journalists and writers.
jamie said:
Paul -what's their source?
It's not Nunes, who has stated that surveillance of foreign actors resulted in Trump people showing up in reports because they were talking to those foreign actors.
Which is not what is claimed in the article extensively quoted in the first post.
Post edited to add - The originator of this thread should have gone with a more reliable source for the story he's pushing here: the National Enquirer.
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/photos/donald-trump-russia-obama-wiretap/
Ah yes, the Deep State. The Donald is also very concerned.
Never fear.The heroic effort to deconstruct the state, deep or not, is proceeding.
I used to be an avid reader of Consortium News. I had a great deal of respect for Robert Parry.
But they've gone off the deep end on this Russia nonsense.
sheesh that story is worse than watching scandal.
the actual scandal is the thievery of the Trumpites and their actual collusion with a foreign power to launder money and enrich themselves.
I'll post this here. Anything associated with the late Wayne Barret is worth reading:
http://whowhatwhy.org/2017/03/27/fbi-cant-tell-trump-russia/
drummerboy said:
I'll post this here. Anything associated with the late Wayne Barret is worth reading:
http://whowhatwhy.org/2017/03/27/fbi-cant-tell-trump-russia/
Well, that's much better sourced than the article posted at the start of this thread. And, given the cast of characters and documented ties to Trump, it's more plausible, as well. There may or may not be anything to it, but it certainly is more likely than the theory put forward in the article about Nunes.
Earlier this month:
"There is a systemic problem with the whistle-blower process,"
Representative Devin Nunes told me. "There is no easy way for them to
come forward that doesn't jeopardize their careers, across the whole
defense and intelligence community enterprise."
Nunes concerned about the rights of whistle blowers? 
Typical political gaming to the terminally stupid and the conspiracy deep state paranoids.
Yes, an underground of secret intelligence agents that would just love for the truth to get out but sadly those whistle blower laws just won't protect them.
drummerboy said:
I used to be an avid reader of Consortium News. I had a great deal of respect for Robert Parry.
But they've gone off the deep end on this Russia nonsense.
He hasn't changed a bit.
FYI, article was from March, but a year ago - 2016.
paulsurovell said:
Earlier this month:
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the intelligence agencies have every federal elected official under surveillance. But that's a completely different thing than Trump's accusation that Obama ordered Trump Tower to be put under surveillance. Trump made a wild-*** accusation of partisan mischief without any evidence. If it turns out that it leads to an uncovering of widespread surveillance of members of both parties, that would certainly be important. But it doesn't vindicate Trump in any way.
I also wouldn't be surprised that Trump associates were under legally approved surveillance because there was probable cause to believe they were engaged in illegal activities. Or that their contacts in other countries are engaged in criminal activities. It's also pretty easy to believe that anyone involved in the business of developing high-end real estate properties in NY could get themselves involved with people engaged in organized crime in Russia or other countries. Certainly there is a lot of suspicion that criminal enterprises are laundering their fortunes through high end real estate in the major cities of the world.
But nothing I'm reading or hearing vindicates Trump in any way.
You really need to pull the west corridor bathroom door shut or it won't lock properly and anyone can walk in you.
paulsurovell said:
Earlier this month:
"There is a systemic problem with the whistle-blower process,"
Representative Devin Nunes told me. "There is no easy way for them to
come forward that doesn't jeopardize their careers, across the whole
defense and intelligence community enterprise."
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-03-08/intel-whistle-blowers-fear-government-won-t-protect-them
And so Nunes met someone he won't identify, on the White House grounds.
Funny way to "protect a whistle-blower" from his bosses. A good way to try to keep other oversight committee members in the dark, however.
qrysdonnell said:
FYI, article was from March, but a year ago - 2016.
paulsurovell said:
Earlier this month:
Wow, my bad. Thanks.
dave23 said:
Good summary of where things stand by Max Boot.
Boot didn't mention that John McCain, his campaign manager Rick Davis and Bob Dole were also involved with Russian oligarch Deripaska in 2005
https://www.thenation.com/article/mccains-kremlin-ties/
Look at this shiny object over here!!!!
We're not talking about McCain. We are talking about Trump, President of the United States.
Do you also want to talk about Hillary's email server or Benghazi?
paulsurovell said:
dave23 said:
Good summary of where things stand by Max Boot.
Boot didn't mention that John McCain, his campaign manager Rick Davis and Bob Dole were also involved with Russian oligarch Deripaska in 2005
https://www.thenation.com/article/mccains-kremlin-ties/
paulsurovell said:Boot didn't mention that John McCain, his campaign manager Rick Davis and Bob Dole were also involved with Russian oligarch Deripaska in 2005
https://www.thenation.com/article/mccains-kremlin-ties/
Were that the entirety of the concern you might have a point.
ml1 said:
I also wouldn't be surprised that Trump associates were under legally approved surveillance because there was probable cause to believe they were engaged in illegal activities. Or that their contacts in other countries are engaged in criminal activities. It's also pretty easy to believe that anyone involved in the business of developing high-end real estate properties in NY could get themselves involved with people engaged in organized crime in Russia or other countries. Certainly there is a lot of suspicion that criminal enterprises are laundering their fortunes through high end real estate in the major cities of the world.
But nothing I'm reading or hearing vindicates Trump in any way.
Exactly. Let's find out first if there was surveillance approved through proper channels in response to a not unreasonable suspicion of a money-laundering operation using Trump real estate holdings or maybe in response to general concerns about the amount of contact between Russian actors and the Trump cabal.
yahooyahoo said:
Look at this shiny object over here!!!!
We're not talking about McCain. We are talking about Trump, President of the United States.
Do you also want to talk about Hillary's email server or Benghazi?
paulsurovell said:
dave23 said:
Good summary of where things stand by Max Boot.
Boot didn't mention that John McCain, his campaign manager Rick Davis and Bob Dole were also involved with Russian oligarch Deripaska in 2005
https://www.thenation.com/article/mccains-kremlin-ties/
He'd love to...it's the only thing that gets him excited...Hillary bashing !
yahooyahoo said:
Look at this shiny object over here!!!!
We're not talking about McCain. We are talking about Trump, President of the United States.
Do you also want to talk about Hillary's email server or Benghazi?
paulsurovell said:
dave23 said:
Good summary of where things stand by Max Boot.
Boot didn't mention that John McCain, his campaign manager Rick Davis and Bob Dole were also involved with Russian oligarch Deripaska in 2005
https://www.thenation.com/article/mccains-kremlin-ties
Max Boot mentions a relationship between Paul Manafort and Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska, but he fails to mention Manafort's partner (in Davis & Manafort), was Rick Davis, adviser to John McCain, who became McCain's campaign manager in 2008. Deripaska also had relationships with Bob Dole (whose firm was paid $500,000 by Deripaska to obtain a US visa) as well as with McCain himself.
There were other McCain associates involved with Manafort and Deripaska.
That's the context.
paulsurovell said:
yahooyahoo said:
Look at this shiny object over here!!!!
We're not talking about McCain. We are talking about Trump, President of the United States.
Do you also want to talk about Hillary's email server or Benghazi?
paulsurovell said:
dave23 said:
Good summary of where things stand by Max Boot.
Boot didn't mention that John McCain, his campaign manager Rick Davis and Bob Dole were also involved with Russian oligarch Deripaska in 2005
https://www.thenation.com/article/mccains-kremlin-ties
Max Boot mentions a relationship between Paul Manafort and Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska, but he fails to mention Manafort's partner (in Davis & Manafort), was Rick Davis, adviser to John McCain, who became McCain's campaign manager in 2008. Deripaska also had relationships with Bob Dole (whose firm was paid $500,000 by Deripaska to obtain a US visa) as well as with McCain himself.
There were other McCain associates involved with Manafort and Deripaska.
That's the context.
You used that same deficient argument a week and a half ago, in your "Former US intelligence analysts" thread. We discussed its deficiencies at that time.
https://maplewood.worldwebs.com/forums/discussion/former-us-intelligence-analysts-cia-allegations-of-email-hacking-are-baseless?page=next&limit=750#discussion-replies-3343632
At the time, I wrote (without contradiction from you): "The missing piece, of course, is any reference to (or even allegation of) Russian involvement in the 2008 election. Back then, of course, the GOP candidate wasn't so deferential towards Russia. In fact, in those years the GOP was claiming that Mr. Obama was the one who was too deferential towards Russia."
You, on the other hand, just backed away and said you were being "facetious", without bothering to deal with the very big "context" issue that my response pointed out. And now you're using that argument again, as if the earlier debunking never happened.
(Post edited to make the link to a forum post work, because it didn't automatically become a link the first time)
2 White House Officials Helped Give Nunes Intelligence Reports
Dennis_Seelbach said:
yahooyahoo said:
Look at this shiny object over here!!!!
We're not talking about McCain. We are talking about Trump, President of the United States.
Do you also want to talk about Hillary's email server or Benghazi?
paulsurovell said:
dave23 said:
Good summary of where things stand by Max Boot.
Boot didn't mention that John McCain, his campaign manager Rick Davis and Bob Dole were also involved with Russian oligarch Deripaska in 2005
https://www.thenation.com/article/mccains-kremlin-ties/
He'd love to...it's the only thing that gets him excited...Hillary bashing !
I think ivanka in the oval office gets him excited, and that's why he wanted to be potus.
jamie said:
2 White House Officials Helped Give Nunes Intelligence Reports
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/0...
So Nunes gets this intelligence from the White House to help prove the White House's claim? Crack White House team all outed accessing classified material.
South_Mountaineer said:
paulsurovell said:You used that same deficient argument a week and a half ago, in your "Former US intelligence analysts" thread. We discussed its deficiencies at that time.
yahooyahoo said:Max Boot mentions a relationship between Paul Manafort and Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska, but he fails to mention Manafort's partner (in Davis & Manafort), was Rick Davis, adviser to John McCain, who became McCain's campaign manager in 2008. Deripaska also had relationships with Bob Dole (whose firm was paid $500,000 by Deripaska to obtain a US visa) as well as with McCain himself.
Look at this shiny object over here!!!!
We're not talking about McCain. We are talking about Trump, President of the United States.
Do you also want to talk about Hillary's email server or Benghazi?
paulsurovell said:
dave23 said:
Good summary of where things stand by Max Boot.
Boot didn't mention that John McCain, his campaign manager Rick Davis and Bob Dole were also involved with Russian oligarch Deripaska in 2005
https://www.thenation.com/article/mccains-kremlin-ties
There were other McCain associates involved with Manafort and Deripaska.
That's the context.
https://maplewood.worldwebs.com/forums/discussion/former-us-intelligence-analysts-cia-allegations-of-email-hacking-are-baseless?page=next&limit=750#discussion-replies-3343632
At the time, I wrote (without contradiction from you): "The missing piece, of course, is any reference to (or even allegation of) Russian involvement in the 2008 election. Back then, of course, the GOP candidate wasn't so deferential towards Russia. In fact, in those years the GOP was claiming that Mr. Obama was the one who was too deferential towards Russia."
You, on the other hand, just backed away and said you were being "facetious", without bothering to deal with the very big "context" issue that my response pointed out. And now you're using that argument again, as if the earlier debunking never happened.
(Post edited to make the link to a forum post work, because it didn't automatically become a link the first time)
Your argument -- that because McCain did not have a "pro-Russian" attitude in the 2008 election, it matters not that his campaign manager Rick Davis was Manafort's partner when Manafort established business ties with Oleg Deripaska -- is a non-sequiteur. The relationship with Deripaska was multidimensional and included Davis, former Senator Bob Dole, additional confidantes of John McCain, and McCain himself, as well as Paul Manafort.
In the Russia-collusion world of guilt by association, all associations become relevant.
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/03/28/the-surveillance-state-behind-russia-gate/