Trustees agree to investigate alternative uses for Village Hall

Tonight's meeting was a Conference Agenda, so no official action could be taken, but it was agreed in principle to investigate alternative uses, including an outright sale without usage restrictions, as long as it stayed within a modest budget and did not cause delays in the renovation project. Bravo. Thank you BOT.

So it might be restored and then sold for commercial use?

@roofin, I think that would be unlikely. If there is no viable sale option prior to renovation, the renovation will probably go ahead as planned and the use will be for Village Hall.

So it might be demolished after all? Not happy.

It can't be demolished, as it's an historic landmark. It can be improved and used commercially, though.

That's good news. I don't care what's in there, but I would be very sad to see it torn down.

The BOT must be getting used to air conditioning that actually works ;-)

It was an intelligent discussion. They gave themselves a chance to find a way to get out from under the building. Any buyer has to comply with the preservation rules, but other than that the trustees will consider all proposals froom potential buyers.

It took a citizen outcry to get them to consider Sheena's proposal. Better late than never. But it has to make you wonder why common sense alone was insufficient.

seems like a pattern, they took on the rescue squad building, fumbled and passed, now they took on town hall, appear there may be a potential fumble pass, next?

I am so thankful Sheena is so diligent and asking the right questions!

kthnry said:

That's good news. I don't care what's in there, but I would be very sad to see it torn down.

Agreed.

jayjayp said:

It took a citizen outcry to get them to consider Sheena's proposal. Better late than never. But it has to make you wonder why common sense alone was insufficient.

Try to give them some credit for this. Last night every one of them was on board with the idea. If they are willing to take a shot at changing direction maybe just maybe you can, too. Just on this issue.

I commend the Trustees for taking another look at this. It will be discussed at the BOT meeting next Monday, when the BOT has the analysis prepared by Barry Lewis.

Mr. Lewis clarified the timeline last night. Bids for the reconstruction contract are due Nov. 1, 2014 and under state law the BOT has 60 days to make its decision. This means that there is a window of six months for the BOT to see if there are any responses to the Request for Expressions of Interest, if the BOT decides to go that route.

I think there's some confusion regarding whether or not properties on the state/national register can be demolished. They can. If the Village sold Village Hall without a deed restriction a private owner can demolish, renovate, and/or pretty much do anything they pleased with the property and the building.

The qualifier is, if the Village sold Village Hall without a deed restriction it would have to return any funding received from the state or national historic trust.

The restrictions are on the funding, not the property or the owner. Private owners can do anything they please with their properties, despite listings on historic registers. Public owners can do anything they please with their properties. Public owners receiving public funding for historic properties on historic registers cannot.

That said, I still think VH is a gem & it would be a darn shame to lose the town's history. I know there are people who disagree, but we're all entitled to our opinions.

Re-cap from the Alternative Press:

http://thealternativepress.com/towns/south-orange-slash-maplewood/articles/for-sale-in-south-orange-centrally-located-hist

The only real historic value I see in Village Hall is its iconic façade; as a facility, it is a substandard aggregation of multi-generational additions which resulted in an unusable building. When you think of its many vital roles from generations past - fire headquarters, police station, center of government - it has had a lengthy and distinguished run. But in its present incarnation it is obsolete and cost-inefficient.

A historic landmark should have more than just historic value; the intrinsic quality of the design, architecture and function should resonate into contemporary value in its use as well as its form. I don't feel that this is the case with Village Hall, and the iconic view from outside just isn't precious enough to overlook its massive shortcomings inside.

Laura, this issue has been discussed previously, and there was confusion as to what historic preservation regulations apply. The most important factor is that Village Hall is listed on the NJ Register of Historic Places, which requires any government agency to follow the requirements of the NJ Register of Historic Places Act (NJRHPA).

The Alternative Press is correct that the sale must include preservation covenants requiring the buyer to comply with the NJRHPA. Any sale of a listed property must be sent to the NJ Historic Preservation Office (HPO) for authorization. If there is no preservation covenant, the sale would need approval from the NJ Historic Sites Council, which is highly unlikely. It's equally unlikely the Sites Council would ever permit demolition.

The Historic Trust funding is a factor, as it also requires compliance with NJRHP, matching funds, and regular reporting. But it's not the funding that kicks in historic preservation compliance rules. It's the building's listing on the NJRHP.

We should turn it into one of those seasonal "haunted houses" that pop up around Halloween. It's already pretty scary inside.

To retain the local flavor, we could have actors wandering the halls trying to get you to drink Perch infused water, or youngsters in plaid popping out to shock and surprise you with a $25 sewer surcharge.

michaelgoldberg said:

Re-cap from the Alternative Press:

http://thealternativepress.com/towns/south-orange-slash-maplewood/articles/for-sale-in-south-orange-centrally-located-hist

I turned-off the tv before the Trustees approved the preparation of a RFEI. My post said that it would be discussed next Monday. This was wrong.

marcsiry said:

We should turn it into one of those seasonal "haunted houses" that pop up around Halloween. It's already pretty scary inside.

To retain the local flavor, we could have actors wandering the halls trying to get you to drink Perch infused water, or youngsters in plaid popping out to shock and surprise you with a $25 sewer surcharge.

Old stone house is better suited for this use.

"Q Can properties listed in the National Register be demolished or altered?
A The National Register does not prevent demolition or destruction of listed properties. The National Register is an honorific designation that provides incentives to preserve properties, but does not control the actions of private owners. The Federal government is required to consult with the State Historic Preservation Office (SHPO) regarding their undertakings that may effect listed and eligible properties. Local governments may afford some protection for listed properties via historic preservation zoning. Owners of listed properties who wish to utilize tax incentives or grants to help with rehabilitation or preservation will have their plans subject to prior review and approval by the appropriate state and/or federal agencies involved."

http://shpo.sc.gov/programs/natreg/Pages/FAQ.aspx

"National- and state-level designations convey more prestige to an individual property or historic district, and makes federal and state tax breaks available to owners of individually listed properties and properties listed as contributing to the significance of a district. However, national- or state-level designation offers no real protections, as both listing and participation in tax abatement programs is voluntary, and owners can renovate or demolish a significant historic property to replace it with a “highest and best use” building that maximizes income or sale price."

http://www.preservationnj.org/site/ExpEng/images/images/pdfs/Historic%20District%20benefits_Mabry_%206-7-07.pdf

marcsiry said:

We should turn it into one of those seasonal "haunted houses" that pop up around Halloween. It's already pretty scary inside.

Make it really scary.

Darken the place and get Torpey to creep around moaning "I am the Mayor, I am the Mayor ..." .

BG9 said:

Darken the place and get Torpey to creep around moaning "I am the Mayor, I am the Mayor ..." .

He already does that.

Laura_Harris said:

"National- and state-level designations convey more prestige to an individual property or historic district, and makes federal and state tax breaks available to owners of individually listed properties and properties listed as contributing to the significance of a district. However, national- or state-level designation offers no real protections, as both listing and participation in tax abatement programs is voluntary, and owners can renovate or demolish a significant historic property to replace it with a “highest and best use” building that maximizes income or sale price."

http://www.preservationnj.org/site/ExpEng/images/images/pdfs/Historic%20District%20benefits_Mabry_%206-7-07.pdf

That's only for private property. Public property has a much higher bar.

And don't forget, South Orange now has an HPC.

In today's world it is a sin to make taxpayers foot the bill to preserve a building that the government neglected and allowed to decay. There are corporations that would pay to fix it up on their dime and then have a nice building in town. Like mc donalds which no one objected to when I suggested it before.

marylago said:

That's only for private property. Public property has a much higher bar.

And don't forget, South Orange now has an HPC.

If I'm not mistaken, the proposal is to sell the property? So, if it's sold without deed restrictions anything could be done with it, however SO would have to forfeit/repay the NJHT grant.

Might make more sense to "sell" it on a 99 year lease, if that allowed the easy creation of a liquor license for it (if I understand the law properly).

In August, 2011, South Orange received a grant of $669,000 from the NJHT for preservation projects.

No, that's not what they said last night. They are putting together a package for potential buyers that would include the deed restriction for the exterior. The parking lot can be included as part of the sale or not, and any offer or expression of interest will be evaluated by the town. The parking lot is very valuable and will not be included unless the offer is well worth it.