Township cutting down healthy mature trees! why!? archived

I just found out that the WO DPW is planning to cut down about 20 beautiful mature and healthy trees along two block of Dartmouth Rd in Gregory neighborhood as they are repaving the road and sidewalks. How could they just cut down such beautiful trees! this is exactly what makes this neighborhood beautiful... not only is it horrible to kill these trees unnecessarily, but it is terrible to make the neighborhood look much worse, bare, and on top of that use the homeowner's tax money to do this!! I am absolutely furious... Attached are a few examples of the trees.

Stop it. Tape you body to the trees!!!

@jgberkeley I'm writing a letter to our council president this very second... I simply cannot believe this, it is absolutely ridiculous, I looked closely at the marked trees, they are not dying or dead, most do not have invasive roots causing issues on the sidewalk or street and most do not interfere with powerlines any more than any other tree in the area. This just makes no sense...

The health and stability of a tree is something the town should be concerned with. A couple of them look like their root platform has become too big for the space between the road and sidewalk. That one in front of the yellow house is also leaning. Are you an arborist, seaweed? I'm not ragging on you here. Just speaking from experience.

bikefixed said:

The health and stability of a tree is something the town should be concerned with. A couple of them look like their root platform has become too big for the space between the road and sidewalk. That one in front of the yellow house is also leaning. Are you an arborist, seaweed? I'm not ragging on you here. Just speaking from experience.

no I'm not an arborist, however it is always the easiest solution to cut down the tree rather than alter the sidewalk to make it work. Some of these trees may have issues, but many, or I should say most, look to be very healthy, stable, and do not appear to be causing sidewalk issues at this point at all.

When you drive down Wyoming Ave towards WO, as soon as Wyoming Ave turns into Gregory Ave, the landscape turns barren and devoid of any mature trees that make Wyoming Ave so beautiful--this is exactly what the township is doing on this street and I consider that a detriment to the neighborhood, its beauty, and property values.

Who cares what they do in West Orange.

Ya wanna look at my neighborhood? Several folks had healthy trees in front of their houses. And do you want to talk about property values? I can tell you a lot more about how trees can affect them.

Do you know if they're planning to replant some trees in those spaces? I feel like I read that Maplewood will often do that when a "town tree" is removed, usually with a tree that won't get totally enormous when it's mature. That might be something to suggest if you're going to write a letter, though I know that newer, smaller trees don't have the same look as those beautiful mature trees.

That said, as someone who lost an enormous tree during Sandy (though it luckily didn't cause any damage, unlike some others' experiences....), I'm all for the town removing potentially hazardous trees, especially if there's a concern that the root system might get damaged during the paving. I'm pretty sure that's what happened with our tree that fell. The previous owners had put in a path right next to the tree, and after the tree fell, you could see that the root system was damaged under the path...and I'm sure the process of putting in a paver path wasn't as traumatic as repaving a street/sidewalk would be. But I get where you're coming from, the trees really make the towns look special. However, I was also ready to cut down every last one of my trees after Sandy, and I get really twitchy during storms. So.

Sinloi said:

Who cares what they do in West Orange.

Given that I posted this in the "West Orange" section of the site I would think residents. Thank's for the nice comment though

The large trees growing between the sidewalk and curb don't have proper root systems and are at risk in high winds.

Also, trees aren't forever. A well-managed suburban tree program would replace trees once they reach 60 or 70 years except in exceptional cases.

afa said:

Do you know if they're planning to replant some trees in those spaces? I feel like I read that Maplewood will often do that when a "town tree" is removed, usually with a tree that won't get totally enormous when it's mature. That might be something to suggest if you're going to write a letter, though I know that newer, smaller trees don't have the same look as those beautiful mature trees.

That said, as someone who lost an enormous tree during Sandy (though it luckily didn't cause any damage, unlike some others' experiences....), I'm all for the town removing potentially hazardous trees, especially if there's a concern that the root system might get damaged during the paving. I'm pretty sure that's what happened with our tree that fell. The previous owners had put in a path right next to the tree, and after the tree fell, you could see that the root system was damaged under the path...and I'm sure the process of putting in a paver path wasn't as traumatic as repaving a street/sidewalk would be. But I get where you're coming from, the trees really make the towns look special. However, I was also ready to cut down every last one of my trees after Sandy, and I get really twitchy during storms. So.

Honestly, I am not sure whether they will replant trees or not. That is a good question, all I heard was about the removal..

I also lost a beautiful old tree on my property and I guess part of me now looks to preserve these gorgeous trees, even when they are not on my property, or even my block for that matter (as in this case...)

@seaweed, I'm actually not the kind of person to advocate getting rid of trees and other natural features in our area. Our street used to be lined with pin oaks planted somewhere in the 1920's-1930's. It was incredible. The tree tops at several points down the street merged to form a tunnel. It seemed we had our own microclimate on some days and we loved it. Here's a picture of our place in 2008 (I think). I miss the way our street used to be. The town, however, wishes it hadn't missed taking care of the neighborhood by culling the trees that were past their estimated life span. Well past.

Lots of families also wish the trees had missed their homes when they decided not to wait for the town to take care of them.

It may be easier to want to protect the trees further from your house...since they won't fall on your house!

Personally, I've had three trees fall my time here. My tree did lots of roof damage and cost $$$$$$ to remove what was left. One neighbor's tree simply tore up the backyard and cost $$$ to remove. The other neighbor's tree left us dark for 13 days after Sandy.

I believe we are down to only one major tree left to fall on our property someday (from a neighbor's yard). When/if it does, it will take out the electric again, and possibly part of our family room with it.

In theory I love our large trees, but they increasingly seem like gorgeous wild cats ready to spring...one or two of the trees you've highlighted would make me nervous if in front of my house.

I used to live on Walker Road in the Gregory Section of West Orange (thanks a lot for the love, Sinloi), and we were one of the very few houses that still had the giant oak trees in front. While they were beautiful, they terrified me during every storm. Particularly during Superstorm Sandy, I lay awake all night wondering when they would give up and fall on the house.

Our next-door neighbor had two similar oak trees when we moved into the area. But by the time we left, both her trees had been cut down because of concerns that they would fall on one of the homes or across the street. And I'm glad the town was proactive about that, as much as I wish the mature trees could have remained in place. West Orange DOES put new trees in those spots, but I believe they choose trees that will not grow to such a huge height.

I believe one of the issues with these trees is that they were planted before the sidewalks and curbs were put in place, which compromised the root structures on both sides. In the case of Walker Road, I know this for a fact because the Belgian block curbs were being installed when we bought the house in 2005.

I think Bikefixed hit the mark. The root structure has been chopped back and compromised over the years. There was a similar situation on Park in MW between Valley and SA when that street was repaved maybe fifteen years ago.

West Orange has a Shade Tree Department and I believe a Town Arborist. Maybe giving the Township Public Works Department might get you more information.

Yes, most of the trees in the picture look like they are leaning and cannot be adequately supported in that narrow strip. They are all close to houses. I love trees too, but I like people more.... Imagine how horrifying it would be to have them fall on a person. This is the town doing what they should.

Bikefixed, you should post some of the "after" shots of that particular tree lying in the midst of your trashed house. That would be enough to convince anyone that not all these mature trees are viable.

I think people can imagine just fine. In all fairness, the WO trees in questions do not seem quite as dangerous as the ones on our street. I haven't been there to assess. I leave that up to the townships that have the responsibility for the trees.

Todd Lamm, the former arborist and director of shade tree in Maplewood said exactly what bikefixed said above when I talked to him several years ago after the microburst on Midland and the summer of 2009 when several trees fell over due to inadequate root structure because of their placement on the berm.

In addition, he mentioned that trees such as pin oaks only live for 80-100 years before they start to decline and eventually die. Unfortunately the idea of urban forestry management practices like removing trees like those in the pictures before they cause damage is a hard pill to swallow. If West Orange has good management practices, they'll replant with trees that will last much longer and pose far less danger as they mature.

I agree to an extent about the very large trees that may pose hazards, such as the oak in front of the yellow house in my pictures... but some of the other trees are of moderate size and don't seem to be as problematic. I do everything I can to preserve my trees. I was forced to cut one of my large oaks last year due to damage and it was painful.. I planted several other trees to replace it on my property, but nothing can replace the beauty and grand looks of it... If I was one of the residents on that block, I would be very very sad and angry about losing the trees...

When they pave the root system under the road gets cut away. This causes the tree lean. Given the size of the trees and the slight lean in to the homes its probably a preventative measure to protect the homes. Not everything is as it seams, im sure the trees were accessed by a qualified professional.

Like everyone has mentioned, it seems likely that the repaving will cut away at least part of the root system, which if it doesn't kill the tree outright will make it far more susceptible to windthrow or other disturbance events. Its even more dangerous to allow a tree that might survive to grow even larger without the proper root development.

Speak with the WO arborist and I'm sure that they'll be more than willing to listen to your concerns and talk your ear off about new plantings, urban canopy and urban forestry management.

Years ago, when Prospect Street was being redone, a number of trees were marked for removal as part of the repaving process. A friend fought vigorously to save the beautiful tree in front of her house and the tree was spared. A short time later, we had a storm and that tree came down on her roof. Ever since, I have suspected that the trees marked for removal were being removed for reasons of public safety. At that time, the contract included replacement of the removed trees with healthy young specimens. You might want to check with WO to see if that is the plan in the case you are referring to in the OP.

FWIW, I doubt that any town would cut down mature trees if it wasn't a matter of public safety. It's not a small or inexpensive undertaking, and they wouldn't do it lightly.