Thoughts on Maplewood reputation vs reality archived

Hi all --

I'm looking at moving to Maplewood at some point this year. I've been very impressed by this forum and my visits to the town. However, I do keep hearing a significant amount of Maplewood bashing. I'm not sure how much of it is reality and how much is just general BS.

Can you give me your perspective on the following comments:

Maplewood is just too close to Newark, and unfortunately some of the decay from Newark has and is spreading to Maplewood

The taxes are just outrageous, and the schools are OK at best. The High School is the worst part of the system

It is good communte to NYC Mid-town direct, but that is about it.

Just as places regentrify, they can just as easily fall back. As housing prices decline, people who may have once settled for Maplewood, will no longer have to, and towns like Maplewood will decline ever further in price.

I'm not sure how true these comments are. Any thoughts from the locals?

I've lived here for 8.5 years and I'd have to say, in my opinion, NONE of those are true, and some are just completely off base!

The only true thing is that taxes are high, but to one extent or another, taxes are high in most communities within easy commuting distance to NYC.

I've never met anyone who has "settled for Maplewood." Most people make a very conscious decision to live here, and have lots of rational, intelligent reasons for doing so.

I'll have to go with Meandtheboys on this one. Every town has its own issues, but all in all Maplewood is much further up the scale than many other towns. Yeah the taxes are high, which is one reason it has stayed nice. I've lived in Maplewood for well over 30 years, and small things have changed, but overall it's a nice place to live.

There's a lot of Maplewood bashing here in Maplewood, but that means we're critical people, always hoping things will improve. Critical, in this context, doesn't necessarily mean negative.

The decay is not spreading from Newark. It's a fundamentally different place in every way.

The taxes are very high. There's no doubt about that. And they seem to go up at least 5% a year. If you can afford it, then maybe they're not outrageous.

The quality of the schools depends on your individual outlook. Stellar students think it's a great place. Kids who need extra help will struggle, but wouldn't they struggle almost anywhere? I'm somewhat satisfied, but to the extent I'm not delighted, I realize that all public school systems are struggling these days, largely due to increasing costs and decreasing funds. See davidfrazer's explanations for why these two things are happening simultaneously.

For what it's worth, both of my daughters are in the high school now.

You can't possibly believe that there's no merit to Maplewood other than the commute, so there isn't really any point in addressing that claim.

Although, if you truly believe the only saving grace is the commute, it would be much cheaper and even closer to the city to move to Jersey City, Bayonne or Hoboken and put your kids in private school.

There may be a something in the "decline in housing prices" comment. A home on my block listed at $675k went for $650k in 4 weeks.

GT, seems to me mbaldwin is suggesting that the decline in housing prices is somehow indicative of an overall decline in the quality of life in the town--as if we're soon to become a slum. But perhaps I misunderstood. That's just how I read it.

Seems there had to be a "correction" in real estate sooner or later.

Me&, I could see that if the housing correction weren't happening all over the country. We're much less hard hit than other areas, I believe.

I am totally with you & Tom. If this isn't where you specifically choose to be, this isn't the town to be in. Maplewood is not a typical "bedroom community." I do know several people who don't really like it here. They are wonderful people (some of them, anyway). But what they want is very different from what we have and who we are.

I tend to think that if proximity to Irvington or Newark bothers someone, they'll probably never get over it, no matter what the reality is.

Hi all --

Please note that none of those statement were my thoughts, just things people have said when I asked them about Maplewood. The comment was noting that as prices decline across the region, people might choose a "better" town, which was defined as Millburn, Short Hills, Chatham, etc.

I like what I see in Maplewood, just wondering how much fire there is to all the smoke.

We have some folks around here who tend to be loud and repetitive. They love the fire. They seek the fire. They are arsonists.

Many more love it here, warts and all.

If the majority of what you are hearing is negative, and you hold the opinion of those people highly, you don't want to move here.

People who think Millburn, Short Hills, Chatham, etc. are "better" are definitely seeking something different.

Greenetree --

How is Maplewood not a "typical" bedroom community? What are some of the things that the people you mention don't like about the town? What do they want that the town doesn't have?

Please, I'm not trying to incite anyone, I'm just trying to get a better feel for the town.

I like Maplewood for it's housing stock, tree lined streets, supposedly diverse and welcoming community, proximity to nyc. Anything else is difficult for me to judge without living there.

Decay from Newark? Not happening, if anything its the reverse. The Newark & Irvington neighborhoods that Maplewood borders on are, in general, a lot nicer than the average neighborhoods for those cities. Springfield Ave is better than it used to be.

Taxes? Yes they are high, but the cost of taxes are built into the housing prices.

Schools? The school district is struggling with budget issues every year, but overall it's pretty good. You could move to Millburn for better schools but you will pay double the price for your house.

Commute? Can't beat it. It took me longer sometimes to take the bus from Hoboken to NYC than the train from Maplewood to NYC.

Housing price decline? If it's happening then it's happening everywhere, not just Maplewood. As long as homes in Maplewood are cheaper that the average apartment in NYC, your safe with your investment.

mbaldwin, I think the above posters have given you some good feedback. My only quibble is with something Hans said: "You could move to Millburn for **better** schools but you will pay double the price for your house." [emphasis added]

I realize he was tracking the term you yourself put in quotes. However, there are all sorts of ways to determine which schools are the "better" schools and average test scores are just one criteria and, imo, not the most important.

Unfortunately, Maplewood is feeling the budget crisis in education more than many schools who are just starting to feel the pain and needing to make some of the cuts we have been making for the past 5 years or so.

FWIW, I have one son who also is in the high school. We moved here in 1987 (right before the crash - perfect timing huh?).

The thing that you find in M/SO that you more than likely will not find in Chatham and Short Hills (not sure about Millburn) is the diverse community you say you value. Chatham in particular is very "white bread" and homogeneous, in every way imaginable.

All of the folks I know here are intelligent, mostly well-educated, open-minded, talented, articulate, good people.

I had serious apprehensions about the proximity to Newark and Irvington when we were looking to move here too. I can assure you that there is very little cause for concern in that regard.

I have two children in the early years of grade school, and I have been very happy with the education they are receiving. I have known quite a few kids that have gone through the high school and done very well.

MB- I'm not being hostile, really.

What you heard is "true" to the extent of what people want to see and what bothers them. We are close to poor cities and that which comes with the territory. Although, I agree with Hans on the bordering neighborhoods.

There is no way around the tax issue. Some people would rather pay a lower percentage of their monthly housing nut in property taxes than in Maplewood. But you are still going to pay thru the nose in the other towns you mention. A $400k house here would probably be closer to $600k in Millburn.

Maplewood has a reputation as being funky, diverse and artsy for a reason. Although, I have to admit that 2005 changed that a bit. There are a lot more relatively wealthy people here now and you are much less likely to have a social worker living on one side of you, a jazz musician on the other, a doctor across the street and a lawyer behind you.

The people I know who moved to the other towns wanted Prestige and not to border Irvington. It is probably unfair to say that they don't mind having a black neighbor or two, but not too many. But my sense is that this is what their neighborhood would look like.

A friend looked in Millburn awhile back and was advised by the realtor that her teenage daughter was going to have to compete with a lot of peers who drove Beamers and wore designer clothes. My friend could afford to provide those things, but that was not her sensibility.

Meandtheboys --

I'm actually not concerned about the proximity to Newark and Irvington, for the most part. I've lived in the city my entire adult life, and feel I can judge whether a neighborhood is "good" or not, whatever that means for me.

I just hear a lot of drumbeating about Maplewood being "overrated." I'm chalking most of it up to people's own personal preferences. I think cul-de-sacs, blandness, new construction, split levels, and an acre of bare lawn are "overrated," but that's just me.

Greenetree --

I didn't think you were being hostile. You latest response was very helpful.

I'd be curious to know who is beating the "over-rated" drum?

Nobody that I know personally. I'm a member of a number of different NJ housing/community boards as I assess my potential move from NYC to Maplewood. Often when I mention Maplewood people jump all over it.

People who do not live in Maplewood? Probably just jealous! :wink:

Someone on MOL posted (a few months ago) an article which shows that there are only three ethnically diverse towns in NJ. The term diverse means, I think, that no ethnic group has a preponderous majority. Maplewood is about 33% black. Most towns have an extremely high white population, and those that don't, have an extremely high black population. Maplewood has neither. The other two towns are South Orange and Montclair. This can be a plus or a minus, depending your outlook.

No one knows how the housing value decline will play out, but my personal prediction is that the slope of the decline in Maplewood will be less steep than in other areas.

I would contend that SO/M schools do some things better than Millburn schools, for example music and other arts. Our music programs kick butt. This is very important to me.

Most people here will defend Maplewood tooth and nail. I think it's nice enough but I wouldn't purchase a home here. I'm going to give it about 2 to 3 years and I will be looking to buy something west of here with a nice school system, lower taxes, and less crime. That is not to say that there are major problems with crime or schools here. Taxes are out of control.

MB,
We moved to Maplewood in the summer, but had bought our house in the early spring before the "correction" began. We paid through the nose and still have absolutely no regrets. We love it here more than anywhere we've lived (NYC, the Northwest, Southwest, Florida and the South, where we're from originally). I love the people, the small-town feel, the beauty of the neighborhoods and the proximity to the city. We had 11 neighbors come introduce themselves to us and invite us places before the moving van even got here.
I love that my children can walk to school all the way through high school. I love that we had 50 million trick-or-treaters on Halloween, that we have neighborhood block parties and progressive dinners, that there's a great and affordable community pool and all kinds of sports and recreation activities for my children.
The schools are not perfect, but I don't think they are anywhere. They're different from what I'm used to, but my children are very happy and doing well.
I can't say enough good things about the town. I plan to stay here, God willing, for the duration.

It would probably be instructive to ask the people who are bashing Maplewood where they live. If the majority are actually living in Maplewood (or South Orange) then I'd worry.

Greenetree alluded to it in her post about having black neighbors. I truly think that a great deal of the bashing of Maplewood has to do with the fact that the percentage of black families in the town and in the schools is beyond the comfort level of some people who move to or live in other suburban towns. We have these discussions periodically, and there are people here who equate simply talking about race with racism, or "playing the race card." But I'd much rather talk about it and live in a community like Maplewood than ignore or fear it and live in a "better" town. I've been here 9+ years, and for me, there is no better town than Maplewood.

mayor_mccheese, your perspective may be different because of where you are in life. Most of us have kids and most of us are over 30. I believe you've just finished college. It would make sense for you to want to spread your wings. And I can't imagine you being able to afford to live here, though I suppose you could if you really wanted to.

Posted By: mbaldwinI just hear a lot of drumbeating about Maplewood being "overrated."
I keep reading this and wondering what your talking about. You mentioned it like 4 or 5 times in this thread. I've never met a soul who articulated this. Please tell us precisely who's saying it so I can understand better.

I think our town is great but I also think it matters what you are looking for. If you can afford more house, want less minorities and more snoot, then there are other towns that will appeal to you. The taxes are very expensive here. If you can find another town with less taxes that has other great things to offer (similar to Maplewood) please let us all know. SERIOUSLY, I really want to know. There are other towns with lower taxes, closeby to Maplewood, but the housing prices are EVEN more expensive for a similar house. So if taxes are high the housing price is lower, and vice versa. So I reccomend deciding what you want and just go for that town.

Living close to Irvington was a big deal for us when we were looking for a house. I can understand the concern. But now that we live here for a few years, I sometimes wonder if we should have bought the bigger older house closer to Irvington instead of the smaller newer house closer to the train station. But overall, I'm pleased with things here.

mbaldwin - My husband and I moved to Maplewood almost 6 years ago. We lived in Montclair in an apartment before this. I DEFINITELY worried about the proximity to Newark and Irvington. But, my anxiety really boiled down to the fact that I really didn't know much at all about Maplewood, but I had heard enough negativity (not necessarily fact) about Newark and Irvington to know that I wouldn't want to live in those cities. So, I got myself into a tizzy right after the purchase -- I thought we must have been crazy to buy this house. But, boy was I worked up over nothing...Really. I love Maplewood. I have wonderful neighbors and a beautiful town that's just a pleasure to come home to (after the shortest commute in and out of NYC that I've ever had).

We don't have kids, so I'm not up on all the details of the schools, but I've heard from a lot of people on this board who are very happy with the education their kids are getting in the schools. Some, not so happy too, but you'd get that anywhere. There is an abundance of parks and rec areas in Maplewood and there are lots of activities in Maplewood for kids/families if that's important to you.

I think that some of the criticisms come from the image problem Maplewood has, if one agrees that it even has an image problem, are due in some part to the recent press coming its way on a national scale since the Money magazine article... consider the debates over the actions regarding banning Christmas carols and the closing of the library, all of which received national attention, and not all positive. (BANNING CHRISTMAS CAROLS!!! CLOSING THE LIBRARIES TO CHILDREN!!! HEATHENS!!!) While there were intelligent supporters and detractors on both sides of each of these issues, often this town's healthy appetite for lively debate gets mistaken for divisiveness and pettiness (though that's there too sometimes, I agree), the infrequent polarizing decision thus deemed irrational or drastic, and the pundits reporting these events on the national scale have little firsthand knowledge of the climate and environment below the surface... This I think filters down to the biased impressions others can narrowmindedly convey without a true understanding of the wonderful fabric of the town woven beneath.

I grew up in South Orange, and am now a Maplewood home owner and I love it here.... but my one complaint is that it is not easy to throw out bulk items. I don't know what it is like for other Essex County towns so maybe this is not a fair comparison, but when my husband & I had an apt. in East Rutherford, there was weekly bulk pick -up.

Okay, so maybe this is nit-picking, but if someone moving to this area could compare these type of factors between all the towns they are considering, it would help a bit in the decision making process.

Move to West Orange. We have bulk day every week on the second pickup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:devil:

Another opinion from another resident ...

Posted By: mbaldwin
Maplewood is just too close to Newark, and unfortunately some of the decay from Newark has and is spreading to Maplewood:


I don't think the comment about Newark is true. I have only been here a few years, but I leave near the Newark border and I haven't noticed any decay. Sure, the fringes near Newark and Irvington have some problems, but "decay" implies that it's getting worse, which I haven't seen.

The taxes are just outrageous, and the schools are OK at best. The High School is the worst part of the system


Taxes are definitely outrageous, and getting worse. That is one of the biggest problems with Maplewood in my opinion. Several people we know are considering moving, mainly because of the taxes, and we are as well. It's not just that the property taxes are high, but they have also increased substantially over the past few years, and if the trend continues, well, just be prepared. If you're wealthy enough, maybe that's not an issue, but for many people it is a big problem.

School ... can't comment since my kid's not in school yet. I'd say the schools are pretty good from what I've heard, but again, "good" is relative so what are you comparing it with?

It is good communte to NYC Mid-town direct, but that is about it.


Think long and hard about this one. If you have a 9 to 5 type of job, then maybe it's not so bad. But outside of midtown Manhattan, you're looking at at least 2.5 hours of your day, every day, commuting back and forth. And if you work late, it just gets worse, with less frequent train schedules, local trains, etc. You could easily have a 3 hour round-trip commute if you work in Manhattan.

Just as places regentrify, they can just as easily fall back. As housing prices decline, people who may have once settled for Maplewood, will no longer have to, and towns like Maplewood will decline ever further in price.


Has Maplewood "gentrified"? I think of gentrification as run-down or rough-around-the-edges neighborhoods turning into nice(er), more expensive places to live, with more entertainment options and shops and stuff. Maybe I've got the wrong definition. But I never had the impression that Maplewood was ever in need of gentrification - it's a nice place to live, and from talking to some long time residents, it has been for quite a long time.

It's definitely getting more expensive, but I would disagree that Maplewood is gentrifying. So I don't see it "falling back" to some pre-gentrification bad ole' days in the future.

If you're asking whether property values will fall, well, everyone's got an opinion about that ... my take is that property values everywhere are going to collapse sooner rather than later, but in this NYC metro area I'd guess most towns are in the same boat. Maplewood has been a bit hyped-up and prices are ridiculous (luckily we moved here a few years ago ... don't know if we could/would now) but who knows. Lots of people I talk to are planning to leave Maplewood, but if there's a fresh supply of people willing to move out here from the city to replace them, maybe it won't crash too badly.

But, even if housing prices plummet, I wouldn't say that would make Maplewood a worse (or less gentrified) place to live ...

Good luck on making your decision.

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