Thinking of moving to Maplewood or South Orange archived

Tyler, it is NOT too good to be true! I've lived here for almost 9 years and still find it to be as wonderful as your first impression.

The short answer to your questions: crime is no more or less a problem here than anywhere else. I came here after 11 years in Jersey City and I feel very safe here. All of the schools are great schools, and all of the schools have their "problems" just like most other places. There seems to be some sort of popular misconception about one grade school being better than another, but I know folks who have kids in each of the schools, and we are all very happy with whatever school our children attend. Mine are in grade school now, and I fully intend--at this point in time--for them to go to MMS and Columbia as well.

If you look in the Education section of this message board, there is currently a "discussion" titled "Zoning - Is there a best school?" There's probably a lot of information there about the different schools in M/SO.

CHS represents the whole town. 10% or so go to private school which is the same percent as any town.

I have a feeling this post might become an entity unto itself. You have hit on a topic that many people on this board get heated over. On a quick note, yes, there are areas that should be avoided (they are usually pretty obvious). But, overall, if you stay in the areas that one might deem "safe" you should be fine. We got a feeling for the area after looking at houses for over a year in different areas. We eventually started to see trends on which areas had hard times selling homes - and we eventually stayed away from those areas mostly for resale issues, but for asthetic reasons as well.

We live in a "safe" area and our neighbors car got stolen out of her driveway while they were home. We have an alarm system in our home, and I feel better for having it. However, to compare the area to Jersey City or NYC, etc. is impossible. SOMW is a suburb with a suburban vibe. Sure, crime happens - but if you have your wits about you you'll be fine.

If a house seems too cheap for the market, there is probably a reason for that. People in SOMW are still involved in bidding wars over property, so in my humble opinion you will not necessarily get what you paid for. That being said, you get a lot more than you would get in Hoboken or Manhattan for the same price. If I saw a house that was priced way too low for what it was, I would question the area, structural problems, etc. A lot of times these homes are priced low simply to start a bidding war.

I have only been in the area for less than a year, but so far we are very happy here. Our house costs too much (as does all of NYC metro) - but it is a very sweet area and we like it a lot so far. Lots of restaurants to dine out at, a good commute, and a nice diverse atmosphere. But I would be wary on where in MWSO I would buy.

I know I will get yelled at about this, and I avoided place names, etc. so no one was personally offended. But, do your homework. Pick out some of the homes and do a tour of the area they are in. We had a few streets in mind that we had to be far from. It worked for us.

Good luck!

Tyler -

We had a similar experience the first time we tried to find Maplewood (coming from the Newark Airport) except that it was 2 a.m. and we had an 18 month old and 5 year old in the car. We ended up in Irvington and had to ask a homeless guy how to get to Maplewood.

Now, almost 2 years later, I am very happy that we chose to buy here. I feel incredibly safe (not to the point of being naive about it, but very comfortable) here. When we lived in Portland, OR we lived in nice neighborhoods but I felt crime to a much larger extent there (car broken into numerous times, strollers stolen off my porch, close neighbors with day time break-ins etc.).

I am happy with my son's elementary school, and have heard really good things about all them.

In terms of gentrification, I think the things happening on Springfield Avenue are great and will hopefully continue up and down the Ave. It reminds me of a part of Portland that used to be considered scary that is now a bustling arts district.

Come on in, the water's nice :surfing:

I can't comment on the schools as I did not go through the schools in town, and do not have children in them.

As for the crime factor, you will find very differing opinions on the matter. Personally I feel that living so close to Newark and Irvington does create more crime here than in some of the other towns in the surrounding area. This is particularly seen with crimes such as car theft, bicycle theft, and to a certain degree robbery. Don't get me wrong, this is still a nice place to live, and I don't fear walking down the street. However, late at night walking down South Orange Ave - you will probably want to keep an eye on your surroundings. I will just repeat that others will disagree about the severity of crime in the area.

Also, taxes here are very high.


Good luck with your search. And If you do choose to live in this area, don't let my words get you down, I'm sure you will enjoy your time here.

As mayor_mccheese said, we have some crime. It's more than you find in more remote towns, but not much more. And it's tolerable for most folks coming from a city. The even better news is that the crime is not on the increase. It's either steady or falling.

You'll see lots of complaints about the schools, but that is largely because we are critical parents and we want the best and will complain about anything. That's not a bad thing. You just have to put it all in perspective. Also, the schools are in a budget crisis, like most other public school districts. This means they have to cut programs that we love dearly, as they do in most other public school districts.

My wife and I just moved here this fall and ended up with an affordable house in a very nice area, though we looked all over SOMA. We're not investment gurus, so from our simple understanding of the matter, here was our rationale:

As far as pure investments go, it would probably be "smartest" to snag a cheaper priced house closer to where SOMA borders Newark/Irvington/East Orange, etc. I personally do not believe we're "losing ground" on those borders. If anything, they'll stay about the way they are or, with the clamor of people who want to move here, they'll extend out. If they do extend, the value of the houses around those borders will increase at a faster clip than the other houses in these towns. I'm guessing you'll be able to sell it for a ton more than you paid for it in 5 to 10 years. But, seeing as this was our first house and a huge percentage of our portfolio, we decided we did not want to (a) be tied to a house for that long and (b) did not want to be that aggressive.

We decided that, for us, it would be better to spend more money in a nicer area. While we knew we wouldn't see the same kind of return, we had confidence that the value would go up and we would make some money. Or, if the market stopped its incline, perhaps we'd just break even and resell it at approximate cost (but at least we were flushing rent money down the drain).

What we decided to do was buy a fixer-upper in a nice area. We got it for much cheaper than the going rates and because of it, we're hoping to see a good return. Our realtor had observed that a large portion of folks moving to the area did not want to buy a house that needed fixing up. They just wanted to move right in, which meant that there was a little less competition for the houses we were interested in.

This isn't a science. Just remember, if this is going to be the only property you own, you have to live there. So make sure it's a place you'll be comfortable in. All I can suggest is try to visit the area at different times of day, have a candid discussion with your realtor (I'd be happy to suggest mine) and talk to the locals!

Tyler --
Sounds like my partner and I are a few months ahead of you in the MW/SO property hunt. We, too, had the same interesting drive into Newark the first time looking at the area. We used to own a home in downtown DC, so thought we were pretty unshakable. Wrong. We were also surprised how quickly the neighborhood changes. We liked the Tuxedo Park neighborhood at first glance, but have ruled it out completely now solely based on it's location.

Not sure what exactly you're looking for, but from what I've seen $350k is gonna have something seriously lacking. As others have mentioned, taxes are a bear. (Keep in mind that SO is currently undergoing a tax reval.)

All said, we're still enthusiastic about the area and are just waiting for the right house to pop up.

Michael

My husband and I have lived for about 20+ years in Maplewood. When we bought our second home, there was no question that we were going to stay. The schools are diverse and my daughters have wonderful friends and wonderful learning experiences. They are both at Columbia. They went to Clinton and again had a wonderful experience. Great teachers and very caring enviroment. Midtown direct has really improved the commute. NO more Hoboken and PATH trains for us. There is such a variety of things to do and be involved in that it makes this area so desirable. So good luck, cecilia

Thanks for all the valuable info!
Since we're first time buyers, were looking for a fixer-upper in a nice area, too.

After living in hoboken, I'm pretty comfortable with accepting an increased likelihood of theft-type crimes because of the adjacency to an area like newark or irvington. The kind of thing that I would find unacceptable is random violent type crimes - we'd have to feel like we could walk the dog at night with little worry (at least as little as we have in hoboken right now, to put it in perspective).
My main concern would be resale value. Even though I can deal with proximity to those areas, maybe other potential buyers might not be so willing to accept it.

In terms of resale value, keep in mind that nowhere in SOMA will ever be further than Manhattan than it is now. Sounds obvious, but we will always attract commuters here. East Orange and Orange are putting some money into the area around the Orange trains station and condos around there are breaking local records for prices. So, again, you can prob target that edge of SO as staying fine or improving. (In fact, I live near there and it's completely not an issue- I shop over that way, etc.)

Hope you choose either of our great towns, Tyler! We are in the Montrose area of SO and we love it. So much in fact, when we were looking to buy another home, we moved 'round the corner from our old one! Lots of people in SO/MW do this type of move because they like their communities so much. We lived in Brooklyn and were ready to buy a home. We looked in many NJ areas, but kept returning to SO/MW. We loved the vibe, the homes, the people and the parks. It was everything we wanted. Now that we're here and settled, there are a a few things we want to change, so we get politically involved in our communities -- just like we did in Brooklyn. There were areas in B'klyn I wasn't comfy going into and the same here. No town is perfect, and that includes our two towns. But what makes MW/SO special, are the people and their lovely, warm families. My children have so many friends of different backgrounds here because of the friends we have made. My children are exposed to interracial families, families with adopted children of another race, gay families, families with one, two or no parent. It's a beautiful thing and I wish more adults were exposed to the type of culture we have in our two towns. Perfect? Nope, but awesome nevertheless. Good luck to you!

As a new SOMA resident I can recommend the area fully. We moved to S.O. (montrose area) because of the usual reasons you've read above - basically the same reasons that already to appeal to you. One specific tip (everyone above has avoided doing this for good reason, but I can't help myself...) there's a street in s.o. that's sort of funky, but basically in montrose - and i've noticed in traveling around the area (we've done a fair amount of exploration, block by block) that Irving, between Grove and Center, while in a nice part of town, basically, has a number of fixer-uppers that, if one comes up on the market, will probably be way undervalued - because there happen to be so many of them on the one long block. My bet is that most of them will turn over in the next few years, and the values will go up substantially. I'm not a broker - i swear - it's just something I've noticed.
Whatever decision you make - good luck - and the more research you do, the more empowered you'll feel.
P.S. I echo the above 'heads up' about S.O.'s upcoming re-val on the taxes; for many of the homes in s.o., the tax bill could be VERY different in a couple years - depending on many factors... your r.e. agent may be reticent to give you the details, heaven knows ours was! so check out some of the threads on the 'specifically south orange' message boards.

If you're afraid of "that" part of Newark you should take a midnight drive down to the REALLY bad part!

dawprod, we moved from Irving last year and I personally don't think there are many "fixer uppers" there. Perhaps a bit of landscaping here and there, a fresh paint job or updating the insides, but these are very old homes and need face lifting, nips and tucks. Mr. Kibbegirl and I updated our old kitchen and two bathrooms on Irving and we were never worried about resale price as much as enjoying the comfort of our home. Irving is a wonderful street and like all streets, not every neighbor can keep up with the Jones' when it comes to home repair or remodeling, or may not care to do so. There's going to be a sore thumb or two.

Posted By: kibbegirl

Hope you choose either of our great towns, Tyler! We are in the Montrose area of SO and we love it. So much in fact, when we were looking to buy another home, we moved 'round the corner from our old one! Lots of people in SO/MW do this type of move because they like their communities so much. We lived in Brooklyn and were ready to buy a home. We looked in many NJ areas, but kept returning to SO/MW. We loved the vibe, the homes, the people and the parks. It was everything we wanted. Now that we're here and settled, there are a a few things we want to change, so we get politically involved in our communities -- just like we did in Brooklyn. There were areas in B'klyn I wasn't comfy going into and the same here. No town is perfect, and that includes our two towns. But what makes MW/SO special, are the people and their lovely, warm families. My children have so many friends of different backgrounds here because of the friends we have made. My children are exposed to interracial families, families with adopted children of another race, gay families, families with one, two or no parent. It's a beautiful thing and I wish more adults were exposed to the type of culture we have in our two towns. Perfect? Nope, but awesome nevertheless. Good luck to you!

This is one of the biggest draws for us. Children are a few years off for us, but we want them to have a diverse experience growing up. It also seems like everyone is very involved in the community. This is huge for us, too. We're not the type to just sit by and watch. We would be bored to death in a town where noone gets to know each other and the streets, parks and shops are always empty (Clearly NOT the case in M/SO).

Thanks for the tip dawprod, I'll keep my eyes open!

About taxes - I grew up in bergen county, so I'm used to the idea of outrageous taxes, but they pale in comparison to the taxes you guys pay. We figure it's worth it if it improves the quality of life that much - and it's probably reflected somewhat in the house prices. But is there any specific explanation why they are so high? And is anything being done about it, or is that 'just the way it is'. I would assume that this is a hot button around election time, no?

We bought a fixer upper in Montrose -- GREAT neighbors. I think the houses on the edges go to a specific type of person. We were looking for a good value during a crazy time in local real estate.

I think the "fixer upper" concept is intimidating to many former renters, who may not have swung a hammer before. If you own a toolbelt, do it. If not, you'd better have a big bank account.

J.B.

Reading your post made me giggle because we made a wrong turn and wound up in Newark after going to contract on our house 20 years ago. I remember calling the Real Estate Broker and telling her the deal was off. She told me that after a while people almost forget that they're so close to Newark. though I thought she was nuts, we loved the house and proceeded with the deal. Now, looking back, I have to agree with her. I hardly ever give Newark a second thought.

Newark isn't so bad, people! You should check it out some time. I hesitate to suggest their Perfoming Arts Center now that we have one...

There was an article a few years ago about how artists couldn't afford lofts in NYC anymore, and Newark was developing an artists community. I haven't seen any evidence of that, but I still remain hopeful for Newark.

I don't recommend "hardly giving Newark a second thought." I think Newark's success is our success.

I agree with lash. Proximity to Newark was a BIG concern for me (even after 11 years in Jersey City). We live in Maplewood, in the "Tuscan" section, between Springfield Avenue and downtown Maplewood, and moved here quite a few years before the current gentrification of SA. Once we settled in, which only took a few months, I never thought about it again. Also, FWIW, in the time we've lived here I haven't known of anyone in our neighborhood who has had a break-in or a car stolen from the driveway, day or night (knock on wood).

Well, MATB, that's fine. But, do you disagree with me?

Seems we were posting at the same time J.B. Of course, I always agree with you! We've done quite a bit of exploring of the better things about Newark over the years, and am looking forward to things getting better still. And, since I live in Maplewood, I have no hesitation about recommending NJPAC!

I only meant I never give Newark a second thought as a source of possible trouble--crimewise--here in M/SO!

:wink:

The crime rate in Maplewood is extremely low (as it is in West Orange). The crime rate in South Orange is a little higher and most attribute that to Seton Hall University. With that said, car theft can be a problem and the random burglary does take place from time to time, although these are as likely to be perpetrated by local kids looking for booze as by a junkie from Newark or Irvington.

The schools reflect the fact that SOM is a mixed race and probably more importantly, a mixed income district. In the end, meaning at high school, kids tend to do very well and score as well or better on standardized tests than their disaggregated peer groups in other towns.

Every day I read the police briefs in the Star Ledger. It looks to me like Montclair has way more crime than South Orange or Maplewood. People get beaten up for cell phones, cars get vandalized and homes get broken into every day there. I don't hear about that going on here. I've been here less than a year and may be naive, but I feel very safe.

Last summer I, too, took a wrong turn and ended up in Newark and then Irvington. In my panic, I made an illegal left turn onto Springfield Ave. because I knew it went through Maplewood. A motorcylce cop pulled me over and said, "Welcome to the Hood." He then gave me a personal escort all the way back to Maplewood. That was a little unnerving (although my kids had a blast running red lights). Looking back, I think he was just trying to play the big hero. The escort was totally unnecessary.

Now he knows where you live.:wink:

Naw, he just got me to Tuscan Road and pointed me toward the village. I'm not THAT naive!

Has anyone ever seen this?
http://www.nj.com/news/murder/index.ssf?/str/homicide/fmap.htm

on the one hand - there is a crystal clear demarcation where the homicides stop. But on the other - some areas of M/SO are very close to where there's a lot of violence. Would I want to live there? I dunno, like y'all have suggested - I'm just gonna have to go check it out for myself

Tyler, I keep pinching myself because I can't believe what a great place to live it is. Your first impression is right on.

And tyler, I feel like I should mention that we moved to South Orange from Hoboken. We decided to only look at SOMA because we didn't find any other communities that appealed to us in the same way. We too wanted an area where we could walk the dogs at any hour or walk home from the train station at 1 am. Our agent was candid and honest with us. We used the test of, "Would she feel comfortable with her son living in this house in this area?" and went with that.

I really think you'll be able to find what you're looking for here.