Sustainable Essex Alliance Energy Program

zolla

Is this a good thing for Maplewood....what about pricing ????


Mike

By my reading it appears that this is not about cost savings, but a shift to a more environmentally friendly means of power generation.  I worry about the quality of response in times of outage. 


zolla
Red_Barchetta said:
By my reading it appears that this is not about cost savings, but a shift to a more environmentally friendly means of power generation.  I worry about the quality of response in times of outage. 

 Good point...has there been any prior discussions on this ?? Have you opted out ?


DaveSchmidt
Red_Barchetta said:
I worry about the quality of response in times of outage. 

PSE&G still operates and maintains the lines. What would change in the event of an outage?

zolla said:
Is this a good thing for Maplewood....what about pricing ????

The price is a little lower than the PSE&G rate. 


DaveSchmidt
oots said:
i opted out 

Mind if I ask why?


yahooyahoo

It says savings is approximately $150 for the typical resident over the 17-month contract.

For me, that's about 5 or 6%.

Plus they are sourcing cleaner energy.  


DaveSchmidt

An information session is scheduled for Monday night:

For residents located in PSE&G territory seeking additional information, the Township has arranged a Public Information Session to be held on Monday, May 13, 2019, at 7:00 p.m.  at the Municipal Building, located at 574 Valley St., Maplewood Township, NJ.  The Township’s energy consultant, Gabel Associates, will be making a presentation after which, the session will be opened up to questions from residents.

A Q. and A.: https://www.twp.maplewood.nj.us/department-community-development/pages/community-energy-aggregation-0

From that link:

What about power outages? 

Power outages are not under the control of the third-party supplier.  The delivery system is still under PSE&G’s control, and there is no difference in delivery services whether you purchase the power supply from a third-party supplier or from PSE&G under its tariff.  In the event of an outage, you would still contact PSE&G at 1-800-436-7734 (PSEG).


Mike
DaveSchmidt said:


Red_Barchetta said:
I worry about the quality of response in times of outage. 
PSE&G still operates and maintains the lines. What would change in the event of an outage

In times of outage repairs are prioritized according to available equipment and labor.  I have to believe it’s possible that being a part of this third party collective would relegate one to a second tier status.  That’s just how business works.  Of course this would not be announced policy but it’s the reality we live in.  Opting out as an individual will probably not help because in order to restore power to that opted out person PSEG would have to restore the whole area including the members of the collective.  


I haven’t decided what I’m going to do, I will attend whatever meetings are held on this.  


FilmCarp
Red_Barchetta said:
In times of outage repairs are prioritized according to available equipment and labor.  I have to believe it’s possible that being a part of this third party collective would relegate one to a second tier status.  That’s just how business works.  Of course this would not be announced policy but it’s the reality we live in.  Opting out as an individual will probably not help because in order to restore power to that opted out person PSEG would have to restore the whole area including the members of the collective.  


I haven’t decided what I’m going to do, I will attend whatever meetings are held on this.  

 That's not how it works.  Power is produced and dumped into the grid.  It is distributed as needed.  If you buy from a instead of b, company a sells a little more power to pse&g.  The utility distributes all of it, and charges for that.  The power coming to your house is no different than the power going to the next house down the road.  If you look at your bill it is divided into two parts, one for production and one for distribution.   


joan crystal

I don't see a downside to this as long as you are eligible to participate.  What the town is doing is forming a large customer pool with five other towns so that participants can purchase energy at a lower rate than would be possible if we were to contract individually, as we do now.  There is also a provision for cleaner energy being provided - a win-win in my opinion.  This program is only available to PSE&G customers.  If you are one of the few persons in Maplewood who gets their energy from JCP&L you are not eligible for this program.  If you already use a third party energy provider you are not eligible.  PSE&G will continue to maintain the infrastructure - they own it!  Contracts with PSE&G for appliance maintenance will still be in effect, they are completely separate from this.  If you have any questions, please attend the May 13th meeting at Town Hall.



nohero
FilmCarp said:
 That's not how it works.  Power is produced and dumped into the grid.  It is distributed as needed.  If you buy from a instead of b, company a sells a little more power to pse&g.  The utility distributes all of it, and charges for that.  The power coming to your house is no different than the power going to the next house down the road.  If you look at your bill it is divided into two parts, one for production and one for distribution.   

 Exactly.  You can see it on your bill.  You pay "Delivery charges" and "Supply charges".  On your bill, it also explains what your "price to compare" is, which is the supply charge part of your bill.  If you have a different supplier, then that part goes to pay that supplier.  PSE&G still gets paid to operate and maintain the wires.  


DaveSchmidt

Yeah, but Red_Barchetta is saying that if a big chunk of the state went dark — after a Sandy-like hurricane, for instance — PSE&G would look at this Direct Energy swath of Essex County and decide, “Eh, let them wait for repairs while we take care of our own customers.” That’s how it works.


nohero
DaveSchmidt said:
Yeah, but Red_Barchetta is saying that if a big chunk of the state went dark — after a Sandy-like hurricane, for instance — PSE&G would look at this Direct Energy swath of Essex County and decide, “Eh, let them wait for repairs while we take care of our own customers.” That’s how it works.

 They're all PSE&G's own customers.  PSE&G gets paid the same whether it obtains the supply for the customer, or the supply comes from a different provider.  

[Edited to add] PSE&G and other NJ utilities procure that supply in the marketplace for electricity, they don't generate it themselves.

Pursuant to the Electric Discount and Energy Competition Act of 1999 (Act), the local electric distribution companies (EDCs or Utilities) are obligated to provide basic generation service (BGS) until the Board determines that it is no longer necessary. BGS refers to the EDCs’ obligation to obtain and provide the supply of electricity for customers who do not switch to an alternative retail supplier known as a Third Party Supplier (TPS). The Act requires that power procured for BGS by a Utility be purchased at prices consistent with market conditions. The charges assessed to customers for BGS are regulated by the New Jersey Board of Public Utilities (Board), and are based on the reasonable and prudent cost to the Utility of providing the service, including the cost of power purchased at prices consistent with market conditions by the Utility in the competitive wholesale marketplace, and related transmission, capacity, ancillary and administrative costs as determined by the Board.

Whatever you pay for supply, is used to pay the suppliers.  In the meantime, everybody is a PSE&G customer for purposes of the wires that convey that supply to each customer location.

fwiw, I was "present at the creation" beginning with the implementation of that 1999 law and the machinations that produced the system used now, which is why I'm wonkily familiar with it.


Roberto

opted out.  don’t appreciate being signed up for services without my consent.  


spontaneous

I received something in the mail the other day, I didn’t even open it since I no longer live in Maplewood and was wondering why they were mailing me stuff out here.  We’re closing in about a week (fingers crossed) so should I fish the letter out of the recycling bin and let the buyer know, or is this something they’ll be informed about when they switch services over to their name next week?


DaveSchmidt

Nose: Unsolicited sign-up.

Face: Cleaner energy at no extra cost.

At least, that’s where I ended up.


Roberto

yeah.  I’ll assume the risk of forgoing the whopping 9 bucks a month they claim they’ll save me over the contract term.  


Mike
DaveSchmidt said:
Yeah, but Red_Barchetta is saying that if a big chunk of the state went dark — after a Sandy-like hurricane, for instance — PSE&G would look at this Direct Energy swath of Essex County and decide, “Eh, let them wait for repairs while we take care of our own customers.” That’s how it works.

 Exactly.  I don't care what legislation exists saying everyone should be treated the same.  At the end of the day when the power is out a human being will have to make a decision about where to dedicate resources.   Who will that human be?  Is it unreasonable to prioritize those customers who have not (somewhat) left you for the competition?


Of course maybe cooperatives like this will inspire PSEG to pursue greener power generation.  Like I said I will attend the meetings and listen, but I think it's a moot point as far as service priority is concerned.  


joan crystal
DaveSchmidt said:
Yeah, but Red_Barchetta is saying that if a big chunk of the state went dark — after a Sandy-like hurricane, for instance — PSE&G would look at this Direct Energy swath of Essex County and decide, “Eh, let them wait for repairs while we take care of our own customers.” That’s how it works.

 Dave:  We were among the last to be restored after Sandy.  The unluckiest among us were without power for close to two weeks!  This was because PSE&G focused on the areas with the densest population first; not because we had residents using third party energy suppliers.  As stated above, PSE&G provides energy through its infrastructure.  It does not manufacture energy.  It purchases it through a network of providers.


yahooyahoo
Red_Barchetta said:


DaveSchmidt said:
Yeah, but Red_Barchetta is saying that if a big chunk of the state went dark — after a Sandy-like hurricane, for instance — PSE&G would look at this Direct Energy swath of Essex County and decide, “Eh, let them wait for repairs while we take care of our own customers.” That’s how it works.
 Exactly.  I don't care what legislation exists saying everyone should be treated the same.  At the end of the day when the power is out a human being will have to make a decision about where to dedicate resources.   Who will that human be?  Is it unreasonable to prioritize those customers who have not (somewhat) left you for the competition?


Of course maybe cooperatives like this will inspire PSEG to pursue greener power generation.  Like I said I will attend the meetings and listen, but I think it's a moot point as far as service priority is concerned.  

Combined population of the towns in the cooperative is approximately 102,000, which would make us the 7th or 8th largest city in New Jersey.  You think someone at PSE&G will consciously decide to screw over possibly 100,000 customers because of where the energy is sourced?  PSE&G is getting paid no matter who produces the energy.


Mike
yahooyahoo said:
Combined population of the towns in the cooperative is approximately 102,000, which would make us the 7th or 8th largest city in New Jersey.  You think someone at PSE&G will consciously decide to screw over possibly 100,000 customers because of where the energy is sourced?  PSE&G is getting paid no matter who produces the energy.

 

We have been given a choice to continue giving all of our business to PSEG, or to give some of it to their competitor.  


I don't know if I would go so far as calling it 'screw over'.  I have no inside information on how prioritizing decisions are made at PSEG.  But we know the decision will be made by humans who are under pressure and work for a business.  I'll ask again.  Is it unreasonable to give priority to customers who have not given a portion of their business to the competition?  


DaveSchmidt
joan_crystal said:

 Dave:  We were among the last to be restored after Sandy.  The unluckiest among us were without power for close to two weeks!  This was because PSE&G focused on the areas with the densest population first; not because we had residents using third party energy suppliers.  As stated above, PSE&G provides energy through its infrastructure.  It does not manufacture energy.  It purchases it through a network of providers.

 I need no convincing, Joan. It was Red_Barchetta’s point of view, not mine.


DaveSchmidt
joan_crystal said:
I If you already use a third party energy provider you are not eligible.  

I believe current third-party customers are eligible, but they’d have to opt in.

From the earlier link, which also might address spontaneous’ question:

Would I be able to Opt-In to the SEA R-GEA Program?

Yes.  Residents who have their own third-party supply contract and who therefore would not be included in the initial eligibility pool, but would like to join the SEA R-GEA, would have the opportunity to do so. Residents who move into their home after the start of the program and who therefore would not be included in the initial eligibility pool, but would like to join the SEA R-GEA, would also have the opportunity to opt-in to the program.



yahooyahoo
joan_crystal said:


DaveSchmidt said:
Yeah, but Red_Barchetta is saying that if a big chunk of the state went dark — after a Sandy-like hurricane, for instance — PSE&G would look at this Direct Energy swath of Essex County and decide, “Eh, let them wait for repairs while we take care of our own customers.” That’s how it works.
 Dave:  We were among the last to be restored after Sandy.  The unluckiest among us were without power for close to two weeks!  This was because PSE&G focused on the areas with the densest population first; not because we had residents using third party energy suppliers.  As stated above, PSE&G provides energy through its infrastructure.  It does not manufacture energy.  It purchases it through a network of providers.

From PSE&G's website:

"PSE&G is owned by PSEG, or Public Service Enterprise Group. PSEG also owns PSEG Power, PSEG Energy Holdings, and PSEG Services Corporation. PSEG Power owns nuclear power plants in New Jersey and Pennsylvania. It also owns natural gas, coal, and oil-fired power plants in Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania."


Mike
yahooyahoo said:
From PSE&G's website:

"PSE&G is owned by PSEG, or Public Service Enterprise Group. PSEG also owns PSEG Power, PSEG Energy Holdings, and PSEG Services Corporation. PSEG Power owns nuclear power plants in New Jersey and Pennsylvania. It also owns natural gas, coal, and oil-fired power plants in Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania."

 Thank you, I was just looking into whether or not PSEG does generate electricity.  So given that, money that is currently going to PSEG will be going to another power generator.  


Mike
yahooyahoo said:
Combined population of the towns in the cooperative is approximately 102,000, which would make us the 7th or 8th largest city in New Jersey.  You think someone at PSE&G will consciously decide to screw over possibly 100,000 customers because of where the energy is sourced?  PSE&G is getting paid no matter who produces the energy.

 One more thing to consider.  The mailer from the Township states the following:

"Direct Energy Services is an electric supplier licensed by the State of NJ, has been in business for nearly 20 years, and has experience serving tens of thousands of residential customers through energy aggregation programs like the SEA R-GEA."

So overnight this group will TRIPLE (or more perhaps) their customer base.  Just something to consider. 


Pamela

I opted out too, mostly because I've always been happy with PSEG services and see no compelling reason to change.  The savings would be negligible and when I've had third party suppliers in the past (though not in NJ) it didn't work out well.


nohero
Red_Barchetta said:
 Thank you, I was just looking into whether or not PSEG does generate electricity.  So given that, money that is currently going to PSEG will be going to another power generator.  

 PSE&G (a subsidiary of PSEG) collects what you pay for your electricity supply.  That in turn pays the companies which provide that supply.  Another subsidiary of PSEG is in the electricity supply business.

Earlier this year, a state-supervised auction was held, for awarding contracts for the electricity supply that comes through PSE&G, if you decide not to choose your own supplier.  These are the suppliers who will be providing electricity to residential customers under those contracts.

Winning Bidders

Tranches

BP Energy Company

 11

Covanta Energy Marketing LLC

 1

DTE Energy Trading, Inc.

 2

Exelon Generation Company LLC

 3

Hartree Partners LP

 2

NextEra Energy Marketing LLC

 3 

PSEG Energy Resources & Trade LLC

 6

 A "tranche" is a slice of the total supply.  The PSEG subsidiary is providing 6 out of 28, or about 22% for residential customers

So for all of PSE&G's residential customers, most of the electricity is already coming from unrelated entities.

For commercial and industrial customers, PSEG Energy Resources & Trade is NOT on the list of winning bidders, so it won't be providing any electricity to commercial and industrial customers who haven't chosen their own supplier.

PSEG Energy Resources & Trade is also selling electricity supply for use by JCP&L customers.  That doesn't even account for customers who choose their own supplier, who in turn gets electricity from PSEG Energy Resources & Trade.  I don't know in what other states they are also participating in the market.

This is a long way of saying that one shouldn't assume anything about responses to outages, based on where the electricity supply is coming from.

[Edited to add] Like I said before, I'm wonkily familiar with how this works.



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