What happens to some who try to purchase food with an EBT card

This is sadly what can happen to some when they try to purchase food using an EBT card. These stories I read about usually happen at "upscale" grocery chains like in this case, Whole Food's. I've read stories about incidents occurring in Fresh Markets and Sprouts. I'm sure they'd appreciate it if you could flash your W2 to the security guard before you entered to purchase your goods.

The cashier had a heated discussion with the shopper regarding his EBT card. Sadly, the article doesn't indicate why. The guard intervenes and ends up beating the crap out of the shopper and sent him away in an ambulance. According to the FB post, no employee called for help.

The security officer was so eager - and very comfortable, I might add - to be Robo Cop that he would injure a man to the point of hospitalization. In front of witnesses. With people taking pictures. With people calling for help.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3223093/A-Foods-security-guard-fired-reportedly-slammed-customer-buying-groceries-concrete-pillars-chokehold-throwing-ground-unconscious.html

And here's a comment from a NYC critical thinker;

I've been to Oakland. It's no better than Detroit. Then you throw in the
whole San Francisco smug attitude. Of course you are going to get
vagrants on food stamps demanding access to fresh organic kale. San
Francisco and Oakland don't have real homeless/poor people who lost
their jobs. Mostly a bunch of anarchists who are professional squatters.
They don't want to work. Want handouts. And turn up anywhere in the
country for protests and violence. In short, DeBlasio's model citizens.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3223093/A-Foods-security-guard-fired-reportedly-slammed-customer-buying-groceries-concrete-pillars-chokehold-throwing-ground-unconscious.html#ixzz3kslhJV7A

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Is there something in the air, leading to mass stupidity? Why is critical thinking becoming a lost skill in America? Is it our education system?

Ever see the base of the Tea Party? Old white seniors telling government to get off their backs, to disappear, while living on Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

Our Tea Party:

What's an EBT card?

Apollo_T said:
What's an EBT card?

The modern version of Food Stamps. Suplimental grocery money in debit card form.

When I worked retail in college, I worked at an upscale boutique. The manager told me something I'd carry with me to this day: "When the ladies come in here, don't analyze them. You never know these days who has money." Spot on. She wanted me to do my job and not act like a bitch to those I may have thought couldn't afford the clothes (not that I would). That said, the "smugness" come from those who think they have the right to analyze others who may be having a hard time making ends meet. Many of us are so, "It's MY MONEY that goes into the system and I have a RIGHT to ...." what? Belittle? Get physical?

The smugness is that an executive busted for bilking millions from the system is given more respect than a person using an EBT card. Isn't that your money too?

Some of us need to stop acting like feeding someone or helping provide affordable housing for a family who'd otherwise be living in a shelter is somehow taking away from our day to day enjoyment. It's NOT.

After the lawsuit, he will be the majority stockholder of Whole Foods

It is true that there is a lot of fraud in welfare, including food stamps, and disability programs. But, unless you really know someone and have significant evidence, there is no reason to assume or strongly believe they are misusing a program.

I have a neighbor that seems fine-mentally and physically..she is out and about every day and while she has a learning disability as well as other issues --is smart--i have actually asked her for advice on some things...

but when I got to know her, I could sense that she could not tolerate more than part time low wage work...maybe about $500/month. For Social Security programs, a person is eligible if they can't work and earn 1090/month or more in 2015.

Its normal..and good...for suspicion to cross your mind when someone is spending a lot at a place like Whole Foods...but it shouldn't be more than a fleeting thought....citizens need to be aware that fraud does exist..but also need to know what is truly suspicious....if it was automatically wrong to shop at Whole Foods with EBT, Whole Foods wouldn't accept it at all.

http://scienceblog.com/24815/does-whole-foods-markets-accept-electronic-benefit-cards/#QkclbhePAhq3UfV3.97

according to this, it is unknown if whole foods actually accepts EBT. But I thought I have heard of people successfully using EBT there in the past.

I have seen issues at Target, where the credit card machine doesn't recognize EBT and it must be processed on the register by the cashier...and the cashier not having a clue and just refusing the payment...it could be the same in Whole Foods.

jmitw said:
It is true that there is a lot of fraud in welfare, including food stamps, and disability programs.

Not really.

Well, we hear about the exceptions - the cheats in any program - because it reinforces animus some of us have for those programs.

I once watched a neighbor on permanent disability build a two-tiered deck off his kitchen. If that were my only idea of who's on disability, I'd be very cynical.

max_weisenfeld said:

jmitw said:
It is true that there is a lot of fraud in welfare, including food stamps, and disability programs.

Not really.

Yes really, A study found that about 2/3rds of children getting SSI (a form of welfare allegedly for people with severe disabilities) are fraudulently collecting benefits....about 25% of beneficiaries have VERY MILD disabilities that doesn't cause any significant impairment like well controlled epilepsy, asthma, or ADHD...and about 40% have moderate disabilities at most that cause limited impairment.

Another study found that 25-40% of adults on disability (SSDI/SSI) are not actually severely disabled.

These people get approved by lying and exaggerating on the application...and doctors play along with it because they don't want to fight with the patient.

I know 2 people that have fraudulently collected benefits...1 even bragged about it...the other where the mother even faked disabilities in the kids to get SSI in addition to faking her own disability. The kids who are now adults miraculously were cured of their incurable disabilities and no longer get benefits. The intellectually disabled son easily graduated from college and worked as a manager. The blind son works as a security guard. With the family, they had stopped collecting benefits by the time I had enough knowledge to report anything...but I did report the other guy..who btw supplemented his disability income by stealing from charities.

and there are many people making significant money being paid in cash...and not reporting it..

and then there was the family who got medicaid to pay for pediasure for the kids claiming they couldn't eat regular food...and at the same time had food stamps for the kids....but rarely gave the kids any regular food....this family also didn't report that the father was around and supporting the kids and actually lived in the home...he established a residence elsewhere on paper (for his license, etc) by using a friend or relatives address....both kids got SSI (at least they did at least have legitimate severe disabilities-and they didn't even know that the 1st child was disabled with a hereditary condition until after the 2nd one was born)...and the family drove around in a newer BMW X5....

there was a story about people with high incomes living in subsidized low income housing...just paying a few hundred per month when they made 10s of thousands of dollars per year...more than many people not in subsidized housing..

sure there are only reports of 1-3% of overpayment..but those are just the case they know about....

GL2 said:
Well, we hear about the exceptions - the cheats in any program - because it reinforces animus some of us have for those programs.
I once watched a neighbor on permanent disability build a two-tiered deck off his kitchen. If that were my only idea of who's on disability, I'd be very cynical.

It could be a mental disability....disability is not only physical...and sometimes a person gets a private disability payout (such as prudential or metlife or workmens comp) because they can no longer do their current job..even though the disability does not prevent them from working completely..

there was a story of a police officer who injured his hand..while he was very physically active and didn't seem to be impaired...it turned out that he had nerve damage in his hand that affected fine motor skills and he couldn't safely handle a gun..

It could actually be CHEAPER for someone to go to whole foods...If you don't have a car....you have to pay for a bus or taxi...or walk...if Whole Foods is nearby...it may be cheaper to go there than to pay for a taxi or multiple bus trips since its hard to do a large shopping trip by bus.

jmitw said:

max_weisenfeld said:

jmitw said:
It is true that there is a lot of fraud in welfare, including food stamps, and disability programs.

Not really.

Yes really, A study found that about 2/3rds of children getting SSI (a form of welfare allegedly for people with severe disabilities) are fraudulently collecting benefits....about 25% of beneficiaries have VERY MILD disabilities that doesn't cause any significant impairment like well controlled epilepsy, asthma, or ADHD...and about 40% have moderate disabilities at most that cause limited impairment.


Another study found that 25-40% of adults on disability (SSDI/SSI) are not actually severely disabled.
....
sure there are only reports of 1-3% of overpayment..but those are just the case they know about....

Cite sources not anecdotes.

The study you are referring to was a Fox News story from 2013 that looked at a single Kentucky County where there was a single bad actor and extrapolated from that datum as if every county in the country had an equal number of criminal actors, which is untrue since there have been no other cases of that scope in the ensuing two years:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/08/widespread-fraud-reported-in-social-security-administration-disability-program/

http://www.disabilitybenefitslawfirm.com/articles_DisabilityFraudMyth.htm

In fact we have one of the most parsimonious and difficult programs in the developed world. As you correctly cite in your very last sentence above, overpayments are only 1-3% on a system that denies over half of all applications. I would argue that most likely there are more people who qualify and are denied than tho are receiving and defraud.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/10/16/2787821/facts-disability-insurance/

Here is a more complete rebuttal of your assertion:

http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/06/28/right-wing-media-miss-the-facts-on-disability-f/194669

Your turn. Sources, please.

On the other thread on EBT card usage Dave quoted this sage philosopher

“The only time you look in your neighbor's bowl is to make sure that they have enough. You don't look in your neighbor's bowl to see if you have as much as them.” - Louis CK

jmitw said:

I know ...The blind son works as a security guard.

And that's where ya lost me...

BG9 said:
And here's a comment from a NYC critical thinker;

I've been to Oakland. It's no better than Detroit. Then you throw in the
whole San Francisco smug attitude. Of course you are going to get
vagrants on food stamps demanding access to fresh organic kale. San
Francisco and Oakland don't have real homeless/poor people who lost
their jobs. Mostly a bunch of anarchists who are professional squatters.
They don't want to work. Want handouts. And turn up anywhere in the
country for protests and violence. In short, DeBlasio's model citizens.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3223093/A-Foods-security-guard-fired-reportedly-slammed-customer-buying-groceries-concrete-pillars-chokehold-throwing-ground-unconscious.html#ixzz3kslhJV7A

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Is there something in the air, leading to mass stupidity? Why is critical thinking becoming a lost skill in America? Is it our education system?
Ever see the base of the Tea Party? Old white seniors telling government to get off their backs, to disappear, while living on Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.
Our Tea Party:

Wait, a security guard beat someone down at a Whole Foods in Oakland, and you're going on about the tea party? Are you in the wrong thread?

Nice elder hateby the way. If you're lucky you'll be one some day.

There are some folks who live to cheat the system and are intelligent - con artists- who if they put their skills to honest labor they would be successful

This scheme was elaborate!

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/05/nyregion/the-new-jersey-psychic-with-a-box-of-swiss-gold.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share

jmitw said:
Its normal..and good...for suspicion to cross your mind when someone is spending a lot at a place like Whole Foods...but it shouldn't be more than a fleeting thought....citizens need to be aware that fraud does exist..but also need to know what is truly suspicious....if it was automatically wrong to shop at Whole Foods with EBT, Whole Foods wouldn't accept it at all.

Can you give an example of what you'd deem as a person spending "a lot at a place like Whole Foods"? Mr. K can look real gruff after yard work or cleaning the grill. Maybe no one is paying attention to what kind of car he rolled out of and they certainly don't know where he lives, so I'm curious -- are you going by looks? Demeanor? And should we be suspicious of everyone spending more than XXX dollars at Whole Foods? I'm not giving you ish. I'm just a bit confused.

Jackson_Fusion said:

BG9 said:
And here's a comment from a NYC critical thinker;

I've been to Oakland. It's no better than Detroit. Then you throw in the
whole San Francisco smug attitude. Of course you are going to get
vagrants on food stamps demanding access to fresh organic kale. San
Francisco and Oakland don't have real homeless/poor people who lost
their jobs. Mostly a bunch of anarchists who are professional squatters.
They don't want to work. Want handouts. And turn up anywhere in the
country for protests and violence. In short, DeBlasio's model citizens.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3223093/A-Foods-security-guard-fired-reportedly-slammed-customer-buying-groceries-concrete-pillars-chokehold-throwing-ground-unconscious.html#ixzz3kslhJV7A

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Is there something in the air, leading to mass stupidity? Why is critical thinking becoming a lost skill in America? Is it our education system?
Ever see the base of the Tea Party? Old white seniors telling government to get off their backs, to disappear, while living on Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.
Our Tea Party:

Wait, a security guard beat someone down at a Whole Foods in Oakland, and you're going on about the tea party? Are you in the wrong thread?
Nice elder hateby the way. If you're lucky you'll be one some day.

No, I'm not in the wrong thread.

I made a point of the general stupidity, the general lack of critical thinking by quoting a reader's comment in the story about this sad incident. Instead of sympathy we get a comment like that. The type of stupidity that ensures incidents like this will be repeated.

Having pointed out a lack of critical thinking skills, I decided to show another example, the Tea Party of Ocean County. The party that decries government is loaded with members who are probably living off governmental programs.

The NJ power base of the Republican party is Ocean county with its many retirement communities, often gated. Nice, safe communities where the "wrong" type is kept off their sidewalks and where the police can be counted on the appear in three minutes when a "wrong" type somehow manages to be seen. They just love the Republican party, they love Christie, they love the bashing of civil servants and they love the cutting of benefits to those "undesirables." Of course, most of them haven't figured out that Christie got the legislature to cut their benefits too like the Homestead Rebate.

It has nothing to do with elder hate. The picture I posted shows pretty much the Tea Party demographics of those who feel involved enough to attend that county's meeting.

Your assuming elder hate. Maybe I'm an elder. Self-hating?

I explained to you. Do try to keep up.

kibbegirl said:

jmitw said:
Its normal..and good...for suspicion to cross your mind when someone is spending a lot at a place like Whole Foods...but it shouldn't be more than a fleeting thought....citizens need to be aware that fraud does exist..but also need to know what is truly suspicious....if it was automatically wrong to shop at Whole Foods with EBT, Whole Foods wouldn't accept it at all.

Can you give an example of what you'd deem as a person spending "a lot at a place like Whole Foods"? Mr. K can look real gruff after yard work or cleaning the grill. Maybe no one is paying attention to what kind of car he rolled out of and they certainly don't know where he lives, so I'm curious -- are you going by looks? Demeanor? And should we be suspicious of everyone spending more than XXX dollars at Whole Foods? I'm not giving you ish. I'm just a bit confused.

Sometimes, I wear dirt encrusted jeans and T-shirt after yard work. And I may not have shaved for three days. The homeless look. Surprised I haven't stopped for vagrancy or questioned when I sometimes wear my $3,000 TAG watch with that attire.

ps - Anyone know of a GOOD watchmaker who can fix a nice automatic TAG. I didn't close the stem completely. It now has internal water damage and needs some new parts and a complete overhaul. I was told it will cost $1600, which I think is too much. I'd like to spend less.

Ligeti?

BG9 - Beacon Jewelers in Maplewood revived a quite old mechanical watch for me, and seemed happy and proud to be able to work on it. Assuming Beacon is still there and still has access to good repairers.

About the real subject of this thread, I am utterly speechless. What on earth????

I think it's a bit ironic that we have people complaining about EBT users buying junk food but then we see posts complaining about them going to Whole Foods and buying healthy food.

The EBT thing is a distraction. This is a cashier at a grocery store. There is simply no way s/he is giving grief to every EBT customer. It would make for a very long day.

+100%!!!

sac said:
I think it's a bit ironic that we have people complaining about EBT users buying junk food but then we see posts complaining about them going to Whole Foods and buying healthy food.

This is what I wrote on the other EBT card thread. Seems to fit here, too:

I haven't had time/energy to post lately, but this upset me. I was on EBT for years. I hated how people looked at me when I shopped and tried to get my kids special treats. Should we all eat fish heads like in Angela's Ashes? Why can't poor people try to find some happiness and dignity in life? Looking up is the only way of climbing out...which I did. Thank you, fellow taxpayers, for your help. My children and I appreciate it.
And let me just say this: Yes, there are people who try to scam the welfare system, but they are the poor unfortunates who don't realize that living on welfare is not really living. Many HAVE to be on welfare and KNOW that they want a better life. How can you begrudge them trying to find the happiness that you take for granted?

ETA: Here is an excerpt from my blog about Christmas in the homeless shelter, and the family with seven children who broke my heart and also instilled it with happiness:

"December 25, 2007

Merry Christmas! I am so happy today! We had such a nice night last night! I got “Deck the Halls” back from Karen, and watched it with the family of seven children. Well, actually five of the seven kids watched it with me. It was wonderful; children are what Christmas is about!
Then, Cheryl and I watched, “Jack Frost”, an animated TV movie from the ’70’s. It was so much fun to laugh and act like children ourselves. When we went to bed, Cheryl starting talking about the problems the family with seven children has: one has leukemia, one has a blood disorder, and two are bi-polar. Big problems for a big family! But, after a while I told her I couldn’t talk about it anymore, it was too depressing. I prefer to spend time learning the wonders of these children." ~ https://megemarlowe.wordpress.com/

This family had, but lost everything due to medical bills and other issues. The last I heard, they were moving to Texas. Their Aunt was going to help them get set up, and rent them a home. The point is, you really don't know WHY someone is on EBT or homeless, or has any of the problems you are tempted to thumb your nose at. If you cannot feel empathy, at least practice sympathy. There are many who would do anything to change their circumstances and be like you.

jmitw said:

GL2 said:
Well, we hear about the exceptions - the cheats in any program - because it reinforces animus some of us have for those programs.
I once watched a neighbor on permanent disability build a two-tiered deck off his kitchen. If that were my only idea of who's on disability, I'd be very cynical.

It could be a mental disability....disability is not only physical...and sometimes a person gets a private disability payout (such as prudential or metlife or workmens comp) because they can no longer do their current job..even though the disability does not prevent them from working completely..


there was a story of a police officer who injured his hand..while he was very physically active and didn't seem to be impaired...it turned out that he had nerve damage in his hand that affected fine motor skills and he couldn't safely handle a gun..

Well, this guy had a wound on his leg, the result of a car accident, that wouldn't heal.

Another famous case (as famous as it can be in Little Rhody) involves a "disabled" fireman who was repeatedly video'ed lifting weights and working out at a local gym. Anyway, as I said, we hear of the few cases and some of us generalize from them.

@meggie's story is great. Look, as noted, there are scammers in all sets of society. Welfare was designed as a temporary help, not something to live off on like social security. Sadly, many families find it more and more difficult to get off of welfare because has the COL has escalated and continues to do so.

When I was a girl, not from a family with means and lots of internal and external issues, my grandmother would scrape together any left over money she had to buy my sister and I a package of soft, lemon Archway cookies. They made us so happy. And although we couldn't afford them, my grandmother managed to get them anyway because...why not? We were good girls, good students and everyone needs a pick-me-up no matter your income bracket. A package of yummy cookies. A tasty treat for the kids. A lobster for dinner - is maybe what someone needs to lift their spirits and sweep them away, if only for a moment, from the ails in which @meggie describes.

The thread started with a story of a security guard beating someone up for trying to use an EBT card. Even if you believe the EBT program is rife with fraud, surely you'd find this kind of violence appalling? The question of fraud seems pretty unrelated to whether it's ok to beat the crap out of people.

On EBT and fraud, all reliable studies show a low incidence. I suppose, for a certain mindset, any incidence at all is a scandal, but I have to wonder at the kind of mindset that's takes more joy in trying to punish fraud than in empathizing with those needing assistance in the first place.

A security guard beat up a customer who poked/shoved a cashier. Still a dramatic overreaction but it had nothing to do with using an EBT card. If it did, this would be a daily occurance. I promise this wasn't the first guy to pay by EBT at the Oakland Whole Foods.

kibbegirl said:
@meggie's story is great. Look, as noted, there are scammers in all sets of society. Welfare was designed as a temporary help, not something to live off on like social security. Sadly, many families find it more and more difficult to get off of welfare because has the COL has escalated and continues to do so.
When I was a girl, not from a family with means and lots of internal and external issues, my grandmother would scrape together any left over money she had to buy my sister and I a package of soft, lemon Archway cookies. They made us so happy. And although we couldn't afford them, my grandmother managed to get them anyway because...why not? We were good girls, good students and everyone needs a pick-me-up no matter your income bracket. A package of yummy cookies. A tasty treat for the kids. A lobster for dinner - is maybe what someone needs to lift their spirits and sweep them away, if only for a moment, from the ails in which @meggie describes.

I love your story about your GMA and the Lemon Cookies, @kibbegirl! <3