TRUMP STATES THE OBVIOUS AND CATCHES HELL

He says outrageously racists things, attacks people's religion, tells out right lies and gets away with it. Now when he says something that is obvious he gets in trouble.

He said that if abortion were to become illegal a woman who had an abortion would face a penalty. Duh! Isn't that what "illegal" means? Yet this is the only thing which seems to have hurt him, and the  so-called "Right to Life" are shocked!

Abortion should be illegal, they say, but we  a woman who has an abortion to be penalized. After all she is a victim. It's the person who performs the abortion who should be punished.

In other words women are to stupid to make a rationale decision too have an abortion. Women who do so are just the victims of those who preform abortions. How dismissive is that? 

Further the position that a woman who has an abortion should suffer no penalty destroys their rationale for why abortion should be illegal. They proclaim the fetus to be a human being and abortion to be tantamount to murder. But a woman who chooses to murder her child is not to be held accountable? 

Do they have the same position with respect to a woman who gives birth and then kills her baby? If not then they must admit a difference between a fetus and a baby. If so the abortion is not murder so why should it be illegal? 

He's also right that NATO is a bad deal for the  American People.  It's also a dangerous one.

terp said:

He's also right that NATO is a bad deal for the  American People.  It's also a dangerous one.

Was NATO always a bad deal or has it changed over the years?

I start a thread about abortion and a discussion of NATO ensues.

Took one post.  Impressive.

But to your original point, I thought it was only me that was missing something about the outrage.  

ctrzaska said:

But to your original point, I thought it was only me that was missing something about the outrage.  

The outrage is simple. About half the country is pro-life according to the current definition of pro-life. If you start heaping conditions on and make it a more pure definition (abortion is murder period). That number drops from half to around nobody.

You can be divisive and win with a roughly 50/50 split. 90/10? That's tough when you're the 10.

Trump is catching hell from the left because of his stance and from the right because they don't want people to think about what the consequences would be if it were made illegal.  If people think about the consequences once abortion becomes illegal, support for making it illegal drops.

This whole thing pisses me off- Oh, there would be consequences for the women ...what about the sperm givers in this equation!!!  

ffof said:

This whole thing pisses me off- Oh, there would be consequences for the women ...what about the sperm givers in this equation!!!  

Should they be part of any decision to end a pregnancy?

obviously, but some are, some aren't.  As soon as it's actually 'murder', well, I would imagine the men would quickly vanish.  OR, suddenly be fabulously supportive fathers.  

ffof said:

This whole thing pisses me off- Oh, there would be consequences for the women ...what about the sperm givers in this equation!!!  

Well according to Trump during that interview the men  wouldn't be held responsible at all. No punishment no nothing!

ffof said:

This whole thing pisses me off- Oh, there would be consequences for the women ...what about the sperm givers in this equation!!!  

I have heard many women argue, and rightfully so, that the choice is the woman's decision to make.  But if that is the stance then the sperm giver as you call the man, is not part of the equation for the choice unless he is helping her obtain an illegal abortion.

Well, if the law is "it's the woman's right to choose", then it is solely the woman.  But if the law says abortion is illegal because it's murder...well, that's a horse of a different color, and frankly, I don't think the anti-choicers want to go that far anyway. They are just against sex otherwise they'd be FOR birth control (which would eliminate/minimize abortions).  

ctrzaska said:

But to your original point, I thought it was only me that was missing something about the outrage.  

Thank God. At least there are two of us. I was beginning to think everyone except me was crazy.

LOST said:

ctrzaska said:

But to your original point, I thought it was only me that was missing something about the outrage.  

Thank God. At least there are two of us. I was beginning to think everyone except me was crazy.

You assume that all us read news reports about Trump in detail.  If you only skim, you might draw different conclusions.

I believe that there are those who believe that a fetus is a human being from the point of conception. It is the position of the Roman Catholic Church and I have known people who believe it. We who disagree can be dismissive of their belief but they are sincere in that belief.

In some was they are the victims of the so-called "Right to Life" politicians who compromise that belief in order to get votes from those who do not believe that a fetus is a person but oppose abortion because they oppose sexual freedom. They believe that a woman who has sex for some reason other than to procreate should be "punished" by having to have the baby. That is not "pro-life" it may actually be "anti-life". Their position is certainly "anti-choice" when they make exceptions for rape. A woman who did not chose to have sex should not be forced to suffer the consequences by having a baby.

These hypocrites do not want a woman to be penalized for having an abortion. They want her to be penalized for having sex. 

 I always sort of admired politicians who refused to allow for the prospect of abortion with any exceptions. If they truly believe it fetus is a child and that abortion is murder why does it make a difference how the fetus is conceived ? Rape, incest, mutual sex it really doesn't matter if it's a human being exception would be  dishonest and pandering. However if one believes, as I do,  it's the woman's right to choose, this is all bull*****  

Let me ask an off he wall question, If I'm understanding from some, a fetus is not considered a person (life) until born?  

maresleg said:

Let me ask an off he wall question, If I'm understanding from some, a fetus is not considered a person (life) until born?  

How about when it can live on its own outside the womb? 

Merriam-Webster says:

Full Definition of fetus


:  an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind; specifically :  a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth

Anti-choice folks who are worried about "victimizing" women should consider that they victimize them every time they throw up another roadblock to women's health centers. 

When you make a girl or woman drive hundreds of miles to receive healthcare, you victimize her. When you ostracize her for patronizing a center, you victimize her. When you summarily execute her doctor, you victimize her. 

Then there's NATO...for some reason.

LOST said:

I start a thread about abortion and a discussion of NATO ensues.

C'mon, you're not new here.  

GL2 said:

LOST said:

I start a thread about abortion and a discussion of NATO ensues.

C'mon, you're not new here. " src="/res/static/common/plugins/redactor/emoticons/1.0/images/3.gif" unselectable="on"> 

It was the message board equivalent of someone rushing in, waiving his arms and shouting, "TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE!  TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE!"

That being said -

Trump's comment about abortion demonstrates the definition attributed to Michael Kinsley:  "A gaffe is when a politician tells the truth."

Most telling about how unprepared Trump is to talk about anything (besides his huge success) is his most recent - "The law should stay as it is" comment, which should be puzzling to the anti-choice people.

Apparently, the great dealmaker ain't so good at thinking on his feet.

And, with his usual eloquence and understatement, BHO says "...the Republican presidential candidate [is] someone who “doesn’t know much about foreign policy or nuclear policy or the Korean Peninsula or the world generally.”

I'm shocked Drumpf knows nothing about Korea. I mean he basically takes all of Kim Jong Un's speeches and replaces Korea with America.

maresleg said:

Let me ask an off he wall question, If I'm understanding from some, a fetus is not considered a person (life) until born?  

Yes. Is it possible this is the first time you've heard an abortion debate? We should hang out.

RobB said:

maresleg said:

Let me ask an off he wall question, If I'm understanding from some, a fetus is not considered a person (life) until born?  

Yes. Is it possible this is the first time you've heard an abortion debate? We should hang out.

I asked the question to see how some would answer only because in some unfortunate cases a pregnant woman was killed & the charges were brought against the assailant for two murder charges, one for the woman & one for the unborn child. How would you personally side in that debate. Unless of course it's the first time you ever heard of such a case.   

maresleg said: I asked the question to see how some would answer only because in some unfortunate cases a pregnant woman was killed & the charges were brought against the assailant for two murder charges, one for the woman & one for the unborn child. How would you personally side in that debate. Unless of course it's the first time you ever heard of such a case.   

I imagine it depends on the state. Where I live now (MA) you can be charged with manslaughter if you hit a pregnant woman with your car and kill her baby. I can understand how some might see a conflict - I guess the courts decided the "choice" to terminate a pregnancy is held by the mother and not some drunk.