Post the murder of Charlie Kirk of Turning Point USA, more Americans turning toward the Catholic Church
Great news His racist base is expanding.
mtierney said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/19/us/charlie-kirk-turning-point-usa.html
If you're going to go to bat for Kirk himself, then are you actually willing to say you feel his actual words and message were positive? Will you put yourself on the record as being opposed to the Civil Rights Act, for instance?
Surely you didn’t waste a second to misconstrue the article before reading! How is that possible?
For the too smart among us….A sampling…
“Across the country this week, parents and grandparents said that watching young people’s intense grief over Mr. Kirk’s public assassination has prompted older conservatives like themselves to look seriously at his work for the first time.
“A memorial service for Mr. Kirk will be held on Sunday morning at an N.F.L. stadium in Glendale, Ariz., a gathering expected to attract a wide range of Mr. Kirk’s devotees, young and old.
“Pastors said the assassination of someone many saw as not just a political voice but a spiritual leader seemed to draw people of all ages to church this week.
“Dean Inserra, the pastor of a Southern Baptist church in Tallahassee, Fla., said his church had its second-highest attendance numbers ever last week, outside of Easter Sundays. The service included baptisms, and invited participants to offer a short spiritual testimony in front of the congregation. Three of them mentioned Mr. Kirk’s role in their commitment or recommitment to Christianity.
Mr. Inserra, 44, received a text this week from a church member in his 70s: “This time last week I didn’t know who Charlie Kirk was (my loss).” Since then, the man had watched many of Mr. Kirk’s debate videos and decided, “these students are the future.”
“Turning Point USA has received more than 54,000 inquiries from people wanting to start new campus chapters, a spokesman said earlier this week.
“Some of that interest appears to be coming from people well beyond the traditional campus demographics. On Facebook, posts about Mr. Kirk have attracted comments from people saying they want to start chapters for parents, grandparents, Gen X and other groups outside Mr. Kirk’s core audience.
“Charlie Kirk was not for olds like me,” the conservative American writer Rod Dreher, 58, said in an email. But conversations in Hungary, where Mr. Dreher lives, revealed Mr. Kirk to be a significant influence on young conservatives there. And one of his daughters attended a prayer service for Mr. Kirk on her college campus in Louisiana.”
mtierney said:
Surely you didn’t waste a second to misconstrue the article before reading! How is that possible?
For the too smart among us….A sampling…
“Across the country this week, parents and grandparents said that watching young people’s intense grief over Mr. Kirk’s public assassination has prompted older conservatives like themselves to look seriously at his work for the first time.
“A memorial service for Mr. Kirk will be held on Sunday morning at an N.F.L. stadium in Glendale, Ariz., a gathering expected to attract a wide range of Mr. Kirk’s devotees, young and old.
“Pastors said the assassination of someone many saw as not just a political voice but a spiritual leader seemed to draw people of all ages to church this week.
“Dean Inserra, the pastor of a Southern Baptist church in Tallahassee, Fla., said his church had its second-highest attendance numbers ever last week, outside of Easter Sundays. The service included baptisms, and invited participants to offer a short spiritual testimony in front of the congregation. Three of them mentioned Mr. Kirk’s role in their commitment or recommitment to Christianity.
Mr. Inserra, 44, received a text this week from a church member in his 70s: “This time last week I didn’t know who Charlie Kirk was (my loss).” Since then, the man had watched many of Mr. Kirk’s debate videos and decided, “these students are the future.”
“Turning Point USA has received more than 54,000 inquiries from people wanting to start new campus chapters, a spokesman said earlier this week.
“Some of that interest appears to be coming from people well beyond the traditional campus demographics. On Facebook, posts about Mr. Kirk have attracted comments from people saying they want to start chapters for parents, grandparents, Gen X and other groups outside Mr. Kirk’s core audience.
“Charlie Kirk was not for olds like me,” the conservative American writer Rod Dreher, 58, said in an email. But conversations in Hungary, where Mr. Dreher lives, revealed Mr. Kirk to be a significant influence on young conservatives there. And one of his daughters attended a prayer service for Mr. Kirk on her college campus in Louisiana.”
not surprising with all this attention Kirk's base is going to expand.
there's always a market for hate and bigotry, unfortunately.
mtierney said:
Surely you didn’t waste a second to misconstrue the article before reading! How is that possible?
Some people are just trying to identify any overlap between the teachings of Jesus and the rhetoric of Charlie Kirk.
As a Christian trying to make sense of the dissonance I feel when I hear people give him any positive credits, I still land on the word “astray” to sum up my feelings on how he led those who listened to him.
I hope the clergy in those churches these people are coming to can correct the course those souls were sent down.
mtierney said:
Surely you didn’t waste a second to misconstrue the article before reading! How is that possible?
For the too smart among us….A sampling…
“Across the country this week, parents and grandparents said that watching young people’s intense grief over Mr. Kirk’s public assassination has prompted older conservatives like themselves to look seriously at his work for the first time.
“A memorial service for Mr. Kirk will be held on Sunday morning at an N.F.L. stadium in Glendale, Ariz., a gathering expected to attract a wide range of Mr. Kirk’s devotees, young and old.
“Pastors said the assassination of someone many saw as not just a political voice but a spiritual leader seemed to draw people of all ages to church this week.
“Dean Inserra, the pastor of a Southern Baptist church in Tallahassee, Fla., said his church had its second-highest attendance numbers ever last week, outside of Easter Sundays. The service included baptisms, and invited participants to offer a short spiritual testimony in front of the congregation. Three of them mentioned Mr. Kirk’s role in their commitment or recommitment to Christianity.
Mr. Inserra, 44, received a text this week from a church member in his 70s: “This time last week I didn’t know who Charlie Kirk was (my loss).” Since then, the man had watched many of Mr. Kirk’s debate videos and decided, “these students are the future.”
“Turning Point USA has received more than 54,000 inquiries from people wanting to start new campus chapters, a spokesman said earlier this week.
“Some of that interest appears to be coming from people well beyond the traditional campus demographics. On Facebook, posts about Mr. Kirk have attracted comments from people saying they want to start chapters for parents, grandparents, Gen X and other groups outside Mr. Kirk’s core audience.
“Charlie Kirk was not for olds like me,” the conservative American writer Rod Dreher, 58, said in an email. But conversations in Hungary, where Mr. Dreher lives, revealed Mr. Kirk to be a significant influence on young conservatives there. And one of his daughters attended a prayer service for Mr. Kirk on her college campus in Louisiana.”
I did read it, hence my question to you. This is not an article about Kirk's killing, which we can agree was terrible and should not have happened (though we seem to disagree on why it was terrible -- I'm opposed to political violence, you posts strongly suggest you're only worried about political violence that targets Republicans). Instead it's about Kirk's movement and message. In starting this thread, you gave it a positive framing, so I think it's fair to ask you what you find positive about a movement and message that explicitly rejects the dignity and equality of all Americans and places "white" Americans in a superior position to others.
I don't support what happened to Charlie, but Charlie supported what happened to Charlie.
Charlie and the 2nd. Amendment- Charlie believed that an occasional gun death or two was ok. It shouldn't affect the 2nd. Amendment. In other words, you or I get wacked by an aimed bullet or a stray bullet, tuff .... .
Your kids or your grandkids get wacked, here's a cookie for you.
Pastors? Reading, once a month about one of them being caught with their fingers in the honey jar would be funny if it wasn't combined with the harm their nonsense does to people and society at large.
mtierney said:
Surely you didn’t waste a second to misconstrue the article before reading! How is that possible?
It possibly misconstrues the article to post it with a thread title including "positive reactions now viewed by churches as a Turning Point for Adult Catholics". Maybe there's some explanation, because it's not in the article.
nohero said:
It possibly misconstrues the article to post it with a thread title including "positive reactions now viewed by churches as a Turning Point for Adult Catholics". Maybe there's some explanation, because it's not in the article.
Eats, shoots and leaves.
mtierney said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/19/us/charlie-kirk-turning-point-usa.html
still waiting for which of these quotes you think is the best.
we all know you'll never answer, because you are gutless and avoid the truth when the truth upsets your pretty little mind.
On race
If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 23 January 2024
If you’re a WNBA, pot-smoking, Black lesbian, do you get treated better than a United States marine?
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 8 December 2022
Happening all the time in urban America, prowling Blacks go around for fun to go target white people, that’s a fact. It’s happening more and more.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 19 May 2023
If I’m dealing with somebody in customer service who’s a moronic Black woman, I wonder is she there because of her excellence, or is she there because affirmative action?
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 3 January 2024
On debate
We record all of it so that we put [it] on the internet so people can see these ideas collide. When people stop talking, that’s when you get violence. That’s when civil war happens, because you start to think the other side is so evil, and they lose their humanity.
– Kirk discussing his work in an undated clip that circulated on X after his killing.
Prove me wrong.
– Kirk’s challenge to students to publicly debate him during the tour of colleges he was on when he was assassinated.
On gender, feminism and reproductive rights
Reject feminism. Submit to your husband, Taylor. You’re not in charge.
– Discussing news of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce’s engagement on The Charlie Kirk Show, 26 August 2025
The answer is yes, the baby would be delivered.
– Responding to a question about whether he would support his 10-year-old daughter aborting a pregnancy conceived because of rape on the debate show Surrounded, published on 8 September 2024
We need to have a Nuremberg-style trial for every gender-affirming clinic doctor. We need it immediately.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 1 April 2024
On gun violence
I think it’s worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational.
– Event organized by TPUSA Faith, the religious arm of Kirk’s conservative group Turning Point USA, on 5 April 2023
On immigration
America was at its peak when we halted immigration for 40 years and we dropped our foreign-born percentage to its lowest level ever. We should be unafraid to do that.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 22 August 2025
The American Democrat party hates this country. They wanna see it collapse. They love it when America becomes less white.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 20 March 2024
The great replacement strategy, which is well under way every single day in our southern border, is a strategy to replace white rural America with something different.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 1 March 2024
On Islam
America has freedom of religion, of course, but we should be frank: large dedicated Islamic areas are a threat to America.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 30 April 2025
We’ve been warning about the rise of Islam on the show, to great amount of backlash. We don’t care, that’s what we do here. And we said that Islam is not compatible with western civilization.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 24 June 2025
On religion
There is no separation of church and state. It’s a fabrication, it’s a fiction, it’s not in the constitution. It’s made up by secular humanists.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 6 July 2022
As an Adult Catholic, I will say those statements appear to be the opposite of what Jesus taught. Amen
Hate speech — spoken by liberals — gets a pass on MOL?
Photo good enough to repeat …
Turning Point USA may be “down” — but not out!Going forward, this movement will attract young and older Americans…
mtierney said:
Hate speech — spoken by liberals — gets a pass on MOL?
Photo good enough to repeat …
The only "hate speech" on this thread are the statements from Charlie Kirk provided as examples. There is no "hate speech spoken by liberals" on this thread.
The accusation that there is "hate speech spoken by liberals" on this thread which is getting "a pass" is a false accusation, basically a lie.
This thread should be transferred to politics, based on the posts by the originator of the thread.
nohero said:
The accusation that there is "hate speech spoken by liberals" on this thread which is getting "a pass" is a false accusation, basically a lie.
This thread should be transferred to politics, based on the posts by the originator of the thread.
You, nohero, appear fixated on accusing anyone, or anything as liars or lying. Try, holding your nose, to reread almost every one of drummerboy’s comments, and get back to me.
mtierney said:
nohero said:
The accusation that there is "hate speech spoken by liberals" on this thread which is getting "a pass" is a false accusation, basically a lie.
This thread should be transferred to politics, based on the posts by the originator of the thread.
You, nohero, appear fixated on accusing anyone, or anything as liars or lying. Try, holding your nose, to reread almost every one of drummerboy’s comments, and get back to me.
You deliberately cut out the first paragraph of my response that you quoted. It reads as follows: "The only "hate speech" on this thread are the statements from Charlie Kirk provided as examples. There is no 'hate speech spoken by liberals' on this thread." The result is a false representation of my post, which you then purport to "refute".
The part you cut out is referring to the quotes from Charlie Kirk in Mr. Drummerboy's post - quotes which you falsely attribute to Mr. Drummerboy himself when you claim that those are his hate speech, not Charlie Kirk's.
If the word "lie" is not appropriate to use to describe the content of your posts, please provide the word you think more appropriate.
I don't know why this antisemitic "Jew with bloody hands" graphic is still up over two hours since it appeared on this thread.
nohero said:
mtierney said:
Surely you didn’t waste a second to misconstrue the article before reading! How is that possible?
It possibly misconstrues the article to post it with a thread title including "positive reactions now viewed by churches as a Turning Point for Adult Catholics". Maybe there's some explanation, because it's not in the article.
My earlier comment, above, was ignored.
In the meantime, it bears noting that Charlie Kirk was for reducing LEGAL immigration, speaking very harshly about the effect of LEGAL IMMIGRANTS on his "vision" for America.
The lesson from New York City is that BOTH illegal and legal immigration can ruin your country. It’s not just the open border, it’s also our suicidal mass LEGAL migration policies bringing in over 1 million people a year: green cards, chain migration, refugee resettlement, anchor…
— Charlie Kirk (@charliekirk11) June 25, 2025
Nohero seems to demand posters to write, and/or believe in a certain way — as long as it is the way in which he approves, of course. I find it difficult — and tiresome —to have an online chat with him, as he seems to be offended no matter what.
mtierney said:
Nohero seems to demand posters to write, and/or believe in a certain way — as long as it is the way in which he approves, of course. I find it difficult — and tiresome —to have an online chat with him, as he seems to be offended no matter what.
Just when people are being deliberately offensive - and then putting the hate speech into the "Religion" category, on top of it.
I thought the Turning Point movement was based on the members’ faith/religion? Was I mistaken?
Sadly, the deranged killer was successful in making Kirk a martyr — and, Turning Point is now known worldwide as a force to be reckoned with. It remains to be seen, however, if Mrs. Kirk can succeed as the new TP leader.
BTW, if I were as easily undone as Nohero, I would never have reached 93-1/2!!
mtierney said:
I thought the Turning Point movement was based on the members’ faith/religion? Was I mistaken?
Sadly, the deranged killer was successful in making Kirk a martyr — and, Turning Point is now known worldwide as a force to be reckoned with. It remains to be seen, however, if Mrs. Kirk can succeed as the new TP leader.
BTW, if I were as easily undone as Nohero, I would never have reached 93-1/2!!
No, Turning Point is not "based on the members' faith/religion". It's a political entity which uses the trappings of Christianity to promote MAGA policies, many of which are antithetical to Catholic teachings.
Regarding being "easily undone", I already explained my own dislike of the misuse and abuse of religion to promote bigotry and hate speech. As to whether you're "easily undone", it seems that people just being who they are or living where they live are enough to encourage you to make nasty comments (such as about those of us who live in Maplewood) and post hateful "cartoons" about them.
Here's a substantive comment which will probably be ignored. I already showed you an example of the late Charlie Kirk's language against legal immigration and against migrants, but here it is again.
The lesson from New York City is that BOTH illegal and legal immigration can ruin your country. It’s not just the open border, it’s also our suicidal mass LEGAL migration policies bringing in over 1 million people a year: green cards, chain migration, refugee resettlement, anchor…
— Charlie Kirk (@charliekirk11) June 25, 2025
His position is in opposition to the Catholic one, which is being reiterated for this year's World Day of Migrants: https://www.usccb.org/cabrinipledge
Excerpts -
"I PLEDGE:
- To affirm, in word and deed, the inherent dignity of every person, regardless of immigration status or country of origin, seeing each as a child of God before all else.
- To engage with Scripture and the Church’s social teaching, reflecting on the role of migration in salvation history, the history of the United States, and the history of my own family.
- To listen and learn about the circumstances facing migrants and refugees, including those in my community, with an open heart and mind.
- To seek opportunities for encounter, so as to grow in deeper understanding and communion that leads to an authentic solidarity with those in need.
- To consider what it means to be a good neighbor and how I am called to reflect the love and hope of Christ to others."
To quote what I wrote, and not what nohero interrupted as what I “really” said….
mtierney said:
I thought the Turning Point movement was based on the members’ faith/religion? Was I mistaken?
Sadly, the deranged killer was successful in making Kirk a martyr — and, Turning Point is now known worldwide as a force to be reckoned with. It remains to be seen, however, if Mrs. Kirk can succeed as the new TP leader.
It is your refusal, or inability, to accept that the message of Turning Point and Charlie Kirk which resonated across America, with a message of “love thy neighbor and love thy country.” America has been built by and has prospered with legal immigration. No one — certainly not I, a child of Irish and Austrian parents — would suggest that immigration was not what made America great and kept it flourishing through two World Wars, the Great Depression, and sadly, engaging in too many wars (or conflicts) throughout the 20th Century.
But, I do not believe that folks who want to be here illegally— breaking the laws of America — are respecting the country and its millions of citizens from around the globe. Maybe we need a renewed “Ellis Island” project as a legitimate welcome center to America so that people can be processed humanely and safely for them, and also for the security of our nation.
Patriotism is what I have supported here since the Rose Garden’s debut in 2012 — not hate — and love for the United States of America —“the land of the free and home of the brave!”
@jamie… Did you move this thread to Religion, or did I put under the Religion category? I can’t remember. Whatever, FWIW, I think the thread is fine where it is.
mtierney said:
To quote what I wrote, and what nohero interrupted as what I “really” said….
mtierney said:
I thought the Turning Point movement was based on the members’ faith/religion? Was I mistaken?
Sadly, the deranged killer was successful in making Kirk a martyr — and, Turning Point is now known worldwide as a force to be reckoned with. It remains to be seen, however, if Mrs. Kirk can succeed as the new TP leader.
It is your refusal, or inability, to accept that the message of Turning Point and Charlie Kirk which resonated across America, with a message of “love thy neighbor and love thy country.” America has been built by and has prospered with legal immigration. No one — certainly not I, a child of Irish and Austrian parents — would suggest that immigration was not what made America great and kept it flourishing through two World Wars, the Great Depression, and sadly, engaging in too many wars (or conflicts) throughout the 20th Century.
I just showed you that Charlie Kirk, and his movement, say and write the exact opposite about immigration. If you choose not to read it, or don't understand the meaning of the words shown to you, that is not something that is the fault of me or anyone other than yourself.
NYT magazine section last Sunday….
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/19/magazine/tyler-robinson-political-violence.html
mtierney said:
To quote what I wrote, and not what nohero interrupted as what I “really” said….
mtierney said:
I thought the Turning Point movement was based on the members’ faith/religion? Was I mistaken?
Sadly, the deranged killer was successful in making Kirk a martyr — and, Turning Point is now known worldwide as a force to be reckoned with. It remains to be seen, however, if Mrs. Kirk can succeed as the new TP leader.
It is your refusal, or inability, to accept that the message of Turning Point and Charlie Kirk which resonated across America, with a message of “love thy neighbor and love thy country.” America has been built by and has prospered with legal immigration. No one — certainly not I, a child of Irish and Austrian parents — would suggest that immigration was not what made America great and kept it flourishing through two World Wars, the Great Depression, and sadly, engaging in too many wars (or conflicts) throughout the 20th Century.
But, I do not believe that folks who want to be here illegally— breaking the laws of America — are respecting the country and its millions of citizens from around the globe. Maybe we need a renewed “Ellis Island” project as a legitimate welcome center to America so that people can be processed humanely and safely for them, and also for the security of our nation.
Patriotism is what I have supported here since the Rose Garden’s debut in 2012 — not hate — and love for the United States of America —“the land of the free and home of the brave!”
@jamie… Did you move this thread to Religion, or did I put under the Religion category? I can’t remember. Whatever, FWIW, I think the thread is fine where it is.
since you will never, ever comment on the quotes I showed you, I'm sure you must have your own favorite words of mr kirk that you'd like to share with us. you know, since his message resonated across america you must have countless examples,
or maybe it's actually the case that he never said anything notable that did not promote hate and division and worse, and that 90% of america never heard of the guy before, so there was no "resonating", and that you barely knew he existed before this month.
which is it?
A profile on Charlie Kirk which most likely makes a lot of parents of college age kids wonder how did an 18 year old accomplish so much in a life cut short so violently?
Turning Point USA
Main article: Turning Point USA.jpg)
In May 2012, Kirk, then aged 18, gave a speech at Benedictine University's "Youth Government Day", where he met Bill Montgomery, a 72-year-old retiree who was then a Tea Party–backed legislative candidate.[14][15] Montgomery, who noticed that until Kirk took the floor the speakers at the event "put the kids to sleep", encouraged Kirk to pursue political activism full-time.[16][1] A month after they first met, Montgomery and Kirk co-founded Turning Point USA, wanting to start an organization rivaling liberal groups such as MoveOn.org.[17][14] Kirk described it as a student organization advocating for free markets and limited government.[18] At the 2012 Republican National Convention, Kirk met Foster Friess, a former investment manager and prominent Republican donor, and persuaded him to finance the organization.[14][17]
Kirk remained the executive director, chief fundraiser, and the public face of Turning Point USA until his death in 2025.[19][20][18] He became known for visiting college campuses to debate with ideological opponents, typically students, and persuade them to consider conservative candidates.[21] According to the Associated Press, video clips of Kirk's campus appearances spread online, helping him "secure a steady stream of donations that transformed Turning Point into one of the country’s largest political organizations".[18] Turning Point eventually began holding massive rallies in which top conservative leaders addressed tens of thousands of young voters.[18] In 2025, TPUSA said it had chapters at more than 2,000 college and high school campuses, and that it had received 32,000 inquiries about starting new chapters in the days after Kirk's death.[22]
In a March 2025 interview with Gavin Newsom, Kirk said that while building TPUSA, "I recognized that there was an ideological imbalance on a lot of these college campuses, and we wanted to provide a counterpoint rooted in conservative, pro-freedom, pro-liberty, America First ideas."[23] He said that when TPUSA began, about 75% of college students voted Democrat, and that the organization's goal was to shift the youth vote at least 10 points toward Republicans—a target they achieved by the 2024 U.S. presidential election.[23]
mtierney said:
A profile on Charlie Kirk which most likely makes a lot of parents of college age kids wonder how did an 18 year old accomplish so much in a life cut short so violently?
what had he accomplished at age 18?
and what did he actually accomplish after that, other than convince some rich maga donors to give him millions of dollars so he could pollute our discourse with hate and division and make himself rich at the same time? of course, this career path is a time honored conservative tradition. I could give you a list if you're interested.
so, what did he do that was actually useful? who did his life's work benefit?
please tell us.
and c'mon, admit it. You had no idea who he was before this, except maybe possibly at the vaguest of levels.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/19/us/kirk assasination gets turning-point-usa followers across the nation unified .html