Its Obama's fault we have Trump
He has it backwards. Obama came into office with a hope he could unite the country and the Republicans immediately went into attack mode.
Um, yeah, by governing this country reasonably well, and not pandering to the least tolerant among us, Obama is to blame for a reactionary demagogue charlatan built by the right wing.
But moderate Republicans need a fairy tale with which to lull themselves to sleep as they (and we all) reap what they have sown.
The infuriating sofocating insufferable political correctness of the left has absolutely resulted in the reaction that has led to Donald Trump.
bramzzoinks said:
The infuriating sofocating insufferable political correctness of the left has absolutely resulted in the reaction that has led to Donald Trump.
Nope. That's a Trumpist lie, like the "birtherism" he championed, and the "thousands of Muslims celebrating 9/11".
But I'm sure he appreciates it when people repeat it.
bramzzoinks, I'm sorry that you see making the world a better place for people not born upper-middle-class heterosexual white Christian males as "suffocating insufferable political correctness".
Jeb appears GOP moderate/centrist in his condemnation of Obama when measured against Larry Klayman who runs Judicial Watch.
He is suing Obama-
"Not only does Obama have blood on his hands as having encouraged if not furthered this hate crime against whites and white cops, but so too does his “soul brothers,” the virulent anti-white, anti-Semitic and anti-Christian so-called Rev. Louis Farrakhan, leader of the Nation of Islam, and his co-enablers like another so-called reverend, Al Sharpton, a charlatan and white hater. Indeed, Obama has, as usual, chosen to associate himself with these lowlifes in his quest to ram his latent hatred of whites, Jews and Christians down everyone’s throats. When the leader of the United States and supposedly the Western world, who was born to a Muslim father, schooled in Muslim schools, and has close ties to black-Muslim leaders like Farrakhan seeks to incite violence by virtue of his running interference for Muslims and blacks who are not even representative of African-Americans generally, it’s no wonder Obama-inspired massacres like Dallas happen. In two words, “Obama Happens!”
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/larry-klayman-suing-obama-endangering-his-life-white-man
susan1014 said:
bramzzoinks, I'm sorry that you see making the world a better place for people not born upper-middle-class heterosexual white Christian males as "suffocating insufferable political correctness".
See. There you go. That is what created Trump as a reaction. Perfect example of suffocating insufferable political correctness.
bramzzoinks said:
susan1014 said:
bramzzoinks, I'm sorry that you see making the world a better place for people not born upper-middle-class heterosexual white Christian males as "suffocating insufferable political correctness".
See. There you go. That is what created Trump as a reaction. Perfect example of suffocating insufferable political correctness.
Perfect response, proving the point.
+1 Susan1014, from a born somewhat upper-middle class heterosexual white Christian (now agnostic) male.
I was born lower middle class to parents born poor and we are Jewish.
bramzzoinks said:
I was born lower middle class to parents born poor and we are Jewish.
And the second time I ever heard the term "political correctness" was from a Holocaust denier.
I won't say all, but many Trump supporters are turned off by being told that should refrain from racial slurs, or anti-Gay or anti-Female remarks, or stereotyping. They see no problem or even support Trump's labeling Mexican immigrants as criminals and calling for a religious test for those entering the country. I do, which is a result, in part, of having been born to working class parents who were born to poor Jewish immigrants.
Not being rude and offensive has nothing to do with political correctness.
Political correctness is, for example, avoiding certain topics of discussion out of concern for being shouted down by the majority.
In the main, Trump is more rude and offensive than anything else.
LOST said:
He has it backwards. Obama came into office with a hope he could unite the country and the Republicans immediately went into attack mode.
+1
I don't think that Obama is to blame for Trump. And I personally do not think that Trump is the problem. Trump is a symptom.
The concern is that this 1 man is close to holding this much power. It's really not wise to centralize power in one man. Obama isn't to blame for that. He shares that blame, but he shares it with many others.
In my book, here is why Obama shares some blame and part of the reason his presidency has been such a colossal failure. All leaders have their opportunities to right the ship in some ways. Obama really missed the boat on the most important ones.
If you listened to Obama in the 2008 campaign, you might think he was going to really right the ship. I mean, I didn't fall for it, but many here did. In fact, I believe I was called racist once or twice because I was somewhat skeptical.
Anyway, he was going to get back to constitutional government. No more signing statements. Close Guantanamo. No more undeclared wars, etc.
But what happened? He let every torturer, every liar, every war criminal go. Not even an investigation.
He didn't prosecute anyone for the financial crisis. He basically continued with what Dubya did. I think one guy went away or something.
He continued to wage war, but in a much more stealthy manner. We are drone bombing across the middle east. We have blown up regimes and this has caused much human suffering in the ME. Interesting that now that some of this human suffering is spreading to Europe people are taking note.
The Obama administration has featured some major gaffes that really should make us a laughing stock. We aided various rebel groups in Syria, some of which are basically Al Queda. We then gave Assad intelligence on some of these groups. We had firefights between Pentagon and CIA backed groups. We spent $500 Million to have 4 or 5 fighters on the ground in Syria. These guys were running around Syria and Iraq with our weapons causing all kinds of carnage. Holy living *****!
We blew up Libya and our esteemed Democratic Presidential candidate and Obama's secretary of state cackles "We came. We saw. He died!". And now Libya is a haven for terrorism.
He has violated our 4th Amendment rights. In his words: "We're spying on some folks". Anyone who challenges this power by blowing the whistle is treated with harshly. Contrast that with those who perpetrated the Iraq War and the torture.
So, now a Trump presidency means that he can imprison American citizens without a trial. He can spy on us. He can spy on his political enemies. He can get the IRS to investigate his political enemies if he would like. Heck, he can even figure out reasons why you shouldn't get healthcare. He has that power.
And yes, Donald Trump has good precedence to bail out his cronies.
Now, it's not all Obama's fault. But he had the opportunity to right the ship and let it slip through his hands.
susan1014 said:
bramzzoinks, I'm sorry that you see making the world a better place for people not born upper-middle-class heterosexual white Christian males as "suffocating insufferable political correctness".
Susan, I'm sorry that you; someone who appears to be well spoken and educated on the issues feels the need to apologize to an idiot.
Ah, you may have misunderstood, I do not use the word "sorry" as an apology in this case...I use it in its other meaning, as an expression of my regret that I have neighbors who can feel as bramzzoinks does.
Thank you for the kind words.
Red_Barchetta said:
susan1014 said:
bramzzoinks, I'm sorry that you see making the world a better place for people not born upper-middle-class heterosexual white Christian males as "suffocating insufferable political correctness".
Susan, I'm sorry that you; someone who appears to be well spoken and educated on the issues feels the need to apologize to an idiot.
jimmurphy said:
Christian (now agnostic)
Baseball will do that to you (or worse).
bramzzoinks said:
susan1014 said:
bramzzoinks, I'm sorry that you see making the world a better place for people not born upper-middle-class heterosexual white Christian males as "suffocating insufferable political correctness".
See. There you go. That is what created Trump as a reaction. Perfect example of suffocating insufferable political correctness.
There are some situations where free speech is actually suppressed. There are others where people are simply unable to open their pie holes without saying something dumb af, and it's usually the latter who complain about political correctness because the former don't live in free countries.
So please, if you feel you haven't been able to express yourself, go ahead and do so.
People are free to say why they do not agree with what someone else says. But the suffocating insufferable political correctness of the left is far worse and people are revolting against it. As with many revolutions they are doing so in a way that is ultimately harmful by backing Trump. But they are revolting against the left. And the left deserves to be revolted against.
bramzzoinks said:
People are free to say why they do not agree with what someone else says. But the suffocating insufferable political correctness of the left is far worse and people are revolting against it. As with many revolutions they are doing so in a way that is ultimately harmful by backing Trump. But they are revolting against the left. And the left deserves to be revolted against.
It's OK Zoinks. You are free to be rude and offensive and claim that everybody else's response is insufferable political correctness.
People are NOT revolting against political correctness except in your tortured mind. They are angry because they are being left behind by a changing world.
As for consolidating presidential power, I blame the authors of the constitution. If your whole theory of government is that separate branches will balance each other out, but one branch (Legislative) is a diverse body reflecting the divisions within society, and another branch (Executive) is under the unified control of a single person, well, how exactly do you think the balance of power will be evolve over the years? The presidency is structurally stronger than the congress, and that flow of power only accelerates in times of marked national division. (as to where the Judicial branch fits in here - it follows the Executive, though with a lag given the pace of turnover of judges).
And speaking of marked national divisions, that's what I blame for Trump. We're in the midst of a major cultural shift, as the social group identifying as white and christian goes from a position of dominance to being just another group. Liberal that I am, I think that's a salutary change, but I think we underestimate the magnitude of it. And, I think it'll get worse before it gets better.
Do you think it's an accident that Trump launched his campaign by calling Mexicans rapists? That he wants to deport Muslims? His whole campaign carries itself with the implicit assumption that people who identify as white are real Americans, and everyone else has the burden of proving themselves?
Of course Trump supporters hate political correctness. Of course they want to "make America great again." Back when America was "great," you could safely insult people who weren't part of white Christian culture - if you cared to. More likely, you just didn't notice those people at all. They were invisible to you. And now they're not just no longer invisible, sometimes they even become president of the United States!
I think America is pretty great in a lot of ways right now, and has the potential to be even greater. We're on our way to a culture that certainly still has plenty of room for white Christians, but one which isn't exclusive to those who identify that way. It's probably going to be a rough road on the way there, though. People can react very poorly to losing the privileges they're used to.
Bramz:
You and lots of others have distorted the term "political correctness" way beyond its original meaning. When you take a position, sometimes pointedly and sarcastically, and people counter it, sometimes pointedly and sarcastically etc., that's debate. It's free speech. It's rough and noisy. PC is the organized effort, largely limited to some college campuses as far as I can tell, to shut people up. I've never experienced that. Over the years, I've taken the seemingly conservative and liberal side of issues o MOL and received some pointed jabs in response. I never tuned out of MOL thinking "I've been the victim of PC." I got yelled at, I yelled back. so what? PC is not synonymous with liberal.
ajc said:
".... it is Obama that created the Trump monster." Proof that the truth hurts...
And here I thought it was goofballs like you and zoinks.
bub said:
Bramz:
You and lots of others have distorted the term "political correctness" way beyond its original meaning. When you take a position, sometimes pointedly and sarcastically, and people counter it, sometimes pointedly and sarcastically etc., that's debate. It's free speech. It's rough and noisy. PC is the organized effort, largely limited to some college campuses as far as I can tell, to shut people up. I've never experienced that. Over the years, I've taken the seemingly conservative and liberal side of issues o MOL and received some pointed jabs in response. I never tuned out of MOL thinking "I've been the victim of PC." I got yelled at, I yelled back. so what? PC is not synonymous with liberal.
Political correctness is not pointed or sarcastic responses. It is the left calling everything not aligned with their dogma of the day as bigoted. That is what people are revolting against.
Desiring to deport all Mexicans and build walls is bigoted. Bans of all Muslims are bigoted. Anti-Semitic references on campaign materials are bigoted. Calling for laws aimed at LGBT people is bigoted. Trying to get a judge recused because of his heritage is bigoted.
None of those things have anything to do with "political correctness." It is a term for morons to justify their abhorrent "opinions"
Nonsense Bramz. nonsense. The big issues are what the big issues always are, with the economy at the top:
http://www.people-press.org/2016/07/07/4-top-voting-issues-in-2016-election/
The average Joe and Jane, including me, has no direct experience of the "PC Wars." That is a war in the hearts and imaginings of the partisan hacks, political extremists and bloggers, and chattering classes. People are worried about their economic futures, particularly Trump people who view themselves as being on the losing end of long term trends like industry fleeing the U.S. We were in a scary near depression when Obama set foot in office and it took a long time to pull away from the brink. People are worried about their homes and their kids' futures, not whether some snot nosed over excited college kid is calling for speech codes and safe spaces.
Show me a legit poll from any credited source that says, in words or substance, that anger at PC is a top issue for Trump supporters.
terp said:
I don't think that Obama is to blame for Trump. And I personally do not think that Trump is the problem. Trump is a symptom.
The concern is that this 1 man is close to holding this much power. It's really not wise to centralize power in one man. Obama isn't to blame for that. He shares that blame, but he shares it with many others.
In my book, here is why Obama shares some blame and part of the reason his presidency has been such a colossal failure. All leaders have their opportunities to right the ship in some ways. Obama really missed the boat on the most important ones.
If you listened to Obama in the 2008 campaign, you might think he was going to really right the ship. I mean, I didn't fall for it, but many here did. In fact, I believe I was called racist once or twice because I was somewhat skeptical.
Anyway, he was going to get back to constitutional government. No more signing statements. Close Guantanamo. No more undeclared wars, etc.
But what happened? He let every torturer, every liar, every war criminal go. Not even an investigation.
He didn't prosecute anyone for the financial crisis. He basically continued with what Dubya did. I think one guy went away or something.
Do you see the contradiction? The reason he could not close Guantanamo, or prosecute "war criminals" or those responsible for the financial crisis is because of the limitations on Presidential power.
The most extreme examples of "political correctness" in this country come from the right. The most "incorrect" sentiments you can express in most of the country are those that are deemed insufficiently worshipful of "the troops," and insufficiently patriotic. In some quarters suggesting that the U.S. is not the greatest country in the history of the world can get you beat up.
I travel a lot for business to places that aren't as "blue" as Maplewood. In the year or two after 9/11, I was careful never to be overheard criticizing George W. Bush or the war in Iraq. I was afraid I'd be in a heated argument at best or at worst, someone would threaten to punch me.
That's "political correctness."
bramzzoinks said:
bub said:
Bramz:
You and lots of others have distorted the term "political correctness" way beyond its original meaning. When you take a position, sometimes pointedly and sarcastically, and people counter it, sometimes pointedly and sarcastically etc., that's debate. It's free speech. It's rough and noisy. PC is the organized effort, largely limited to some college campuses as far as I can tell, to shut people up. I've never experienced that. Over the years, I've taken the seemingly conservative and liberal side of issues o MOL and received some pointed jabs in response. I never tuned out of MOL thinking "I've been the victim of PC." I got yelled at, I yelled back. so what? PC is not synonymous with liberal.
Political correctness is not pointed or sarcastic responses. It is the left calling everything not aligned with their dogma of the day as bigoted. That is what people are revolting against.
LOST said:
terp said:
I don't think that Obama is to blame for Trump. And I personally do not think that Trump is the problem. Trump is a symptom.
The concern is that this 1 man is close to holding this much power. It's really not wise to centralize power in one man. Obama isn't to blame for that. He shares that blame, but he shares it with many others.
In my book, here is why Obama shares some blame and part of the reason his presidency has been such a colossal failure. All leaders have their opportunities to right the ship in some ways. Obama really missed the boat on the most important ones.
If you listened to Obama in the 2008 campaign, you might think he was going to really right the ship. I mean, I didn't fall for it, but many here did. In fact, I believe I was called racist once or twice because I was somewhat skeptical.
Anyway, he was going to get back to constitutional government. No more signing statements. Close Guantanamo. No more undeclared wars, etc.
But what happened? He let every torturer, every liar, every war criminal go. Not even an investigation.
He didn't prosecute anyone for the financial crisis. He basically continued with what Dubya did. I think one guy went away or something.
Do you see the contradiction? The reason he could not close Guantanamo, or prosecute "war criminals" or those responsible for the financial crisis is because of the limitations on Presidential power.
Not quite why he didn't prosecute. They didn't prosecute because after investigating, they didn't think they could win.
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In the Bizarro world of reasonable anti-Trump Republicans, it is Obama that created the Trump monster.
A Jeb Bush screed :
Seem?
I seems the whole Republican party has gone off the rails.
With so called moderates like Jeb Bush spouting this nonsense, I'm sure the future of that party is Trump.
What is sad is that a paper like the Washington Post gave him a forum for spouting this obvious crap.