IT IS ABOUT ISLAM. Expsing the truth about ISIS, AL QAEDA, AND THE CALIPHATE
Huh? Thomas Jefferson was the original champion of Freedom of Religion. The Pilgrims came to America to escape religious persecution. The first thing in the Bill of Rights is Freedom of Religion.
What's PC about that?
ajc said:
I know, I know, I know!!! Yes, It's Glenn Beck again, but it was only $8.99 at COSTCO...
I couldn't resist a chance to find out if that young red-haired law student from Williamsburg, Virgina, who went on to become President Thomas Jefferson, really had his own copy of the holy book of Islam, The Quran.
I know my pals her on MOL won't go out and buy it; and knowing how the libs always seek the truth in everything I post, I figured this is a chance to get to the bottom of this alleged attack on Islam. So let's have at it. Who in the PC crowd wants to start defending people's right to worship how they choose first?
This atheist will.
"Thomas Jefferson was the original champion of Freedom of Religion."
That's right. Jefferson believed that everyone should have the right to worship, or not worship, as they choose. It was unfortunately, not a view shared by the Muslims he eventually encountered.
It's not a view shared by all Christians, which is why Jefferson had to push it in an almost 100% Christian country.
It's also not a view shared by all Jews, Hindus, etc. In each Religion there are some who believe everyone should be forced to adopt their religion. That's why Freedom of Religion is important.
Maybe we should talk to ouir Saudi pals:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/02/opinion/thomas-friedman-our-radical-islamic-bff-saudi-arabia.html?_r=0
LOST said:
It's not a view shared by all Christians, which is why Jefferson had to push it in an almost 100% Christian country.
It's also not a view shared by all Jews, Hindus, etc. In each Religion there are some who believe everyone should be forced to adopt their religion. That's why Freedom of Religion is important.
You're preaching to the congregation.
"Champion of Freedom", -A slave owner who was having sex with his own slave girl and refused to free any of them ever including his own children.
Meanwhile, he WAS a student of ALL religions and even famously wrote his own "Jefferson Bible", or "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth" which was a censored version of the New Testament -it excluded all references of Jesus Miracles or being the son of God or any of that other weird stuff. -Basically a sort-of pocket Jesus advise column that he could attach his own name to.
RobB said:
I don't get it.
Steel is drifting off trying to change the topic, it's about ISLAM Steel....
ajc said:
"Thomas Jefferson was the original champion of Freedom of Religion."
That's right. Jefferson believed that everyone should have the right to worship, or not worship, as they choose. It was unfortunately, not a view shared by the Muslims he eventually encountered.
What Muslims did Jefferson "encounter?"
It seems like maybe the OP is suggesting that we shouldn't let religious fanatics impose their extremist beliefs on our free democracy? Is that it, AJC?
Like Kim Davis in Kentucky?
imonlysleeping said:
It seems like maybe the OP is suggesting that we shouldn't let religious fanatics impose their extremist beliefs on our free democracy? Is that it, AJC?
ajc said:
"Thomas Jefferson was the original champion of Freedom of Religion."
That's right. Jefferson believed that everyone should have the right to worship, or not worship, as they choose. It was unfortunately, not a view shared by the Muslims he eventually encountered.
Here's some Muslims trying to escape ISIS
ajc said:
"Thomas Jefferson was the original champion of Freedom of Religion."
That's right. Jefferson believed that everyone should have the right to worship, or not worship, as they choose. It was unfortunately, not a view shared by the Muslims he eventually encountered.
Here's a Muslim that died trying to escape ISIS
yahooyahoo said:
Like Kim Davis in Kentucky?
imonlysleeping said:
It seems like maybe the OP is suggesting that we shouldn't let religious fanatics impose their extremist beliefs on our free democracy? Is that it, AJC?
Well, yes, that's where I was heading. Oh well, never mind.
dave23 said:
ajc said:What Muslims did Jefferson "encounter?"
"Thomas Jefferson was the original champion of Freedom of Religion."
That's right. Jefferson believed that everyone should have the right to worship, or not worship, as they choose. It was unfortunately, not a view shared by the Muslims he eventually encountered.
I assume AJC is talking about the Barbary Pirates. Though I don't think their views on Freedom of Religion were ever documented.
Art, If this thread were exclusively "about Islam" then Jefferson won't be part of the story. Context is everything.
In other words, what do you think anyone is supposed to divine from the fact that Jefferson had a copy of the Quran other than his own well known studiousness?
ParticleMan said:
dave23 said:I assume AJC is talking about the Barbary Pirates. Though I don't think their views on Freedom of Religion were ever documented.
ajc said:What Muslims did Jefferson "encounter?"
"Thomas Jefferson was the original champion of Freedom of Religion."
That's right. Jefferson believed that everyone should have the right to worship, or not worship, as they choose. It was unfortunately, not a view shared by the Muslims he eventually encountered.
Bingo! It was the Barbary Pirates. And, their views on Freedom of Religion were documented. They never believed in it then , and in case you've missed it, they still don't believe in it now!
ajc said:Bingo! It was the Barbary Pirates. And, their views on Freedom of Religion were documented. They never believed in it then , and in case you've missed it, they still don't believe in it now!
The Barbary Pirates!?!?! What do they have to do with freedom of religion? Or has Fox News so bastardized reality that you believe the Barbary Wars were about religion as opposed to piracy?
I'm guessing AJC recently got this chain email:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/feb/11/chain-email/barbary-wars-did-us-declare-war-islam/
steel said:
Art, If this thread were exclusively "about Islam" than Jefferson won't be part of the story. Context is everything.
In other words, what do you think anyone is supposed to divine from the fact that Jefferson had a copy of the Quran other than his own well known studiousness?
On page 113 in volume 1 of George Sale's translation are Thomas Jefferson's own initials besides one of the Quran's most warlike passages: God hath preferred those who fight for the faith (Mujaheddin) before those who sit still."
It seems clear that Jefferson undertook a serious effort to understand the motivations of his enemies, when in 1801, as Commander in Chief, he finally gave the order to take America to war against the Barbary Pirates.
ajc said:
steel said:On page 113 in volume 1 of George Sale's translation are Thomas Jefferson's own initials besides one of the Quran's most warlike passages: God hath preferred those who fight for the faith (Mujaheddin) before those who sit still."
Art, If this thread were exclusively "about Islam" than Jefferson won't be part of the story. Context is everything.
In other words, what do you think anyone is supposed to divine from the fact that Jefferson had a copy of the Quran other than his own well known studiousness?
It seems clear that Jefferson undertook a serious effort to understand the motivations of his enemies, when in 1801, as Commander in Chief, he finally gave the order to take America to war against the Barbary Pirates.
Well, that worked.
ajc said:
steel said:On page 113 in volume 1 of George Sale's translation are Thomas Jefferson's own initials besides one of the Quran's most warlike passages: God hath preferred those who fight for the faith (Mujaheddin) before those who sit still."
Art, If this thread were exclusively "about Islam" than Jefferson won't be part of the story. Context is everything.
In other words, what do you think anyone is supposed to divine from the fact that Jefferson had a copy of the Quran other than his own well known studiousness?
It seems clear that Jefferson undertook a serious effort to understand the motivations of his enemies, when in 1801, as Commander in Chief, he finally gave the order to take America to war against the Barbary Pirates.
Either that or the United States was tired of paying ransom to the Barbary Pirates. But don't let me stand in the way of your revising of history.
ajc said:
LOST said:You're preaching to the congregation.
It's not a view shared by all Christians, which is why Jefferson had to push it in an almost 100% Christian country.
It's also not a view shared by all Jews, Hindus, etc. In each Religion there are some who believe everyone should be forced to adopt their religion. That's why Freedom of Religion is important.
To whom does one preach other than the congregation?
What Jefferson's initials on a page in the Quran would represent is scholarly notation. A notation among many notations in many books.
Re: the Barbary Pirates. Good (not a deity according to Thomas)) lord of Nazareth.
Does this also mean that McKinley seriously understood the motivations all those foreign Catholics in declaring the Spanish-American war?
LOST said:
Do pirates have religion?
AJC is mixing up his holidays. International Talk Like An Islamic Pirate Day is in May.
ParticleMan said:
I'm guessing AJC recently got this chain email:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/feb/11/chain-email/barbary-wars-did-us-declare-war-islam/
Dear ParticlaMan,
As early as 1797, members on the far left of the Liberal Party in the United States made clear in a treaty with Tripoli that "as the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen (Muslims) and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan (Mohammedan or Muslim) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
I believe it was actually Obama's great grandfather who actually wrote the ass-kissing, appeasing treaty...
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I know, I know, I know!!! Yes, It's Glenn Beck again, but it was only $8.99 at COSTCO...
I couldn't resist a chance to find out if that young red-haired law student from Williamsburg, Virgina, who went on to become President Thomas Jefferson, really had his own copy of the holy book of Islam, The Quran.
I know my pals her on MOL won't go out and buy it; and knowing how the libs always seek the truth in everything I post, I figured this is a chance to get to the bottom of this alleged attack on Islam. So let's have at it. Who in the PC crowd wants to start defending people's right to worship how they choose first?