Is it ok to discuss Hillary Clinton's participation in an illegal coup?

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/4/13/shes_baldly_lying_dana_frank_responds

DANA FRANK: Well, I just want to say this is like breathtaking that she’d say these things. I think we’re all kind of reeling that she would both defend the coup and defend her own role in supporting its stabilization in the aftermath. I mean, first of all, the fact that she says that they did it legally, that the Honduras judiciary and Congress did this legally, is like, oh, my god, just mind-boggling. The fact that she then is going to say that it was not an unconstitutional coup is incredible, when she actually had a cable, that we have in the WikiLeaks, in which U.S. Ambassador to Honduras Hugo Llorens says it was very clearly an illegal and unconstitutional coup. So she knows this from day one. She even admits in her own statement that it was the Honduran military, that she says, well, this was the only thing that was wrong there, that it was the military that took Zelaya out of the country, as opposed to somehow that it was an illegal thing we did—that the Honduran government did, deposing a president.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to that WikiLeaks cable on Honduras. The U.S. Embassy in Tegucigalpa, the capital of Honduras, sent a cable to Washington on July 24, 2009, less than a month after the coup. The subject line was "Open and Shut: The Case of the Honduran Coup." The cable asserted, quote, "there is no doubt" that the events of June 28, 2009, "constituted an illegal and unconstitutional coup," unquote. The Embassy listed arguments by supporters of the coup to claim its legality, and dismissed each of them, saying, quote, "none ... has any substantive validity under the Honduran constitution." The Embassy went on to say the Honduran military had no legal authority to remove President Zelaya from office or from Honduras. The Embassy also characterized the Honduran military’s actions as an "abduction" and kidnapping that was unconstitutional. Again, this was the U.S. Embassy memo that was sent from Honduras to Washington.

yes, this is one of the things that she can legitimately be criticized for. She's about as neo-con as you can get and still be a Democrat. It would be so much more refreshing if she was honest about it though. Just own your war-mongering self, Hillary.

Bill's bombing of Serbia was far worse.

I mean, it's your forum...   

I've watched 5 seasons of Homeland, so now I'm disappointed that she hasn't helped overthrow more governments.  

drummerboy said:

yes, this is one of the things that she can legitimately be criticized for. She's about as neo-con as you can get and still be a Democrat. It would be so much more refreshing if she was honest about it though. Just own your war-mongering self, Hillary.

For those who do not know, Hillary's remarks were made in her Daily News interview this week.  The corporate media has ignored it, but instead continues to spout the false mantra that Bernie bungled his interview.

She will say anything to get elected.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-hillary-clinton-meets-news-editorial-board-article-1.2596292?utm_content=buffer9cc34&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDailyNewsTw

paulsurovell said:

For those who do not know, Hillary's remarks were made in her Daily News interview this week.  The corporate media has ignored it, but instead continues to spout the false mantra that Bernie bungled his interview.

She will say anything to get elected.


http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-hillary-clinton-meets-news-editorial-board-article-1.2596292?utm_content=buffer9cc34&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDailyNewsTw

Point of fact- Bernie did bungle his interview. 

The issue isn't the interview, I'll agree. The issue is what it revealed.

Hillary can be a war monger while Bernie remains radically befuddled. It's not either or.

Jackson_Fusion said:

paulsurovell said:

For those who do not know, Hillary's remarks were made in her Daily News interview this week.  The corporate media has ignored it, but instead continues to spout the false mantra that Bernie bungled his interview.

She will say anything to get elected.


http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-hillary-clinton-meets-news-editorial-board-article-1.2596292?utm_content=buffer9cc34&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDailyNewsTw

Point of fact- Bernie did bungle his interview. 

The issue isn't the interview, I'll agree. The issue is what it revealed.

Hillary can be a war monger while Bernie remains radically befuddled. It's not either or.

radically befuddled huh? It must be easy then to pull out a section that illustrates this, yes?

And that Bernje spread lies about Israel must not be forgotten or swept under the rug.  That is the most disturbing thing to come out of the political season.  Yes the most disturbing thing.  And there have been many disturbing things. 

bramzzoinks said:

And that Bernje spread lies about Israel must not be forgotten or swept under the rug.  That is the most disturbing thing to come out of the political season.  Yes the most disturbing thing.  And there have been many disturbing things. 

yeah. trump and cruz are leading but the worst thing this political season was 1 statement by Sanders that he has walked back.

hokay....

bramzzoinks said:

And that Bernje spread lies about Israel must not be forgotten or swept under the rug.  That is the most disturbing thing to come out of the political season.  Yes the most disturbing thing.  And there have been many disturbing things. 

No it is not.  Your comment is disproportionate.  

drummerboy said:

bramzzoinks said:

And that Bernje spread lies about Israel must not be forgotten or swept under the rug.  That is the most disturbing thing to come out of the political season.  Yes the most disturbing thing.  And there have been many disturbing things. 

yeah. trump and cruz are leading but the worst thing this political season was 1 statement by Sanders that he has walked back.

hokay....

That is the biggest problem. He only very grudgingly walked back one portion of the lies he spread about Israel.  And lies about Israel take on a life of their own. 

Considering Bernie's interview and comments that he walks back on such as Israel or Clinton not being qualified its possible he has "senior" moments.

I've seen that with my mother. Rational, then not so rational, then the "walkback." 

Could be that's why his wife was so upset about the DN interview, protecting the husband she loves so much, vilifying the interview as an "inquisition."

It can be difficult.

bramzzoinks said:

And that Bernje spread lies about Israel must not be forgotten or swept under the rug.  That is the most disturbing thing to come out of the political season.  Yes the most disturbing thing.  And there have been many disturbing things. 

You should be shooting your venom at Kasich today.

http://www.jta.org/2016/04/14/news-opinion/politics/john-kasich-links-passover-to-jesus-blood-at-hasidic-matzah-bakery#.Vw_Vtlc_DF0.twitter

But no matter what, Bernie and Hillary are head and shoulders above all of the Republican candidates.

BG9 said:

Considering Bernie's interview and comments that he walks back on such as Israel or Clinton not being qualified its possible he has "senior" moments.

I've seen that with my mother. Rational, then not so rational, then the "walkback." 

Could be that's why his wife was so upset about the DN interview, protecting the husband she loves so much, vilifying the interview as an "inquisition."

It can be difficult.

really?  I've been taking your posts seriously but this one?  

hoops said:

BG9 said:

Considering Bernie's interview and comments that he walks back on such as Israel or Clinton not being qualified its possible he has "senior" moments.

I've seen that with my mother. Rational, then not so rational, then the "walkback." 

Could be that's why his wife was so upset about the DN interview, protecting the husband she loves so much, vilifying the interview as an "inquisition."

It can be difficult.

really?  I've been taking your posts seriously but this one?  

Why not? Look at the "evidence."

Sander's is good with his emotion loaded speeches repeating the same simple talking points - Wall St, banks, big business. Simplistic appeals to emotion that lack depth and do not require intellectual rigor. Similar to Trumps appeal to emotion.

I don't feel there is depth to Sanders. His confusion when he was asked real questions is one of the things that made me feel that. Same with his wife's "it was an inquisition." So, sorry someone asked real questions and expected real answers.

Having democratic socialist talking points is nice and good but you don't need intellectual depth to posit them. 

Compare that to Clinton who shows depth and gets into wonkish detail when needed. She may be Satan personified but her obvious high intelligence stands out.

Just because someone is running for president does not mean we get the intellectual rigor or health that we deserve. And I don't mean just Sanders. Many, including me, wondered about Bush's intellect. Same with Saint Reagan. We know the obvious failings of the current Republican candidates.

ZZ is right. Bernie showed an amazing ignorance of the Israeli- Palestinian situation.

BCC said:

ZZ is right. Bernie showed an amazing ignorance of the Israeli- Palestinian situation.

Welcome back.

re: the Daily News, is labeling it "an inquisition" different from Trump and the GOP complaining the media are out to get them?

I think they are equivalent. 

TarheelsInNj said:

re: the Daily News, is labeling it "an inquisition" different from Trump and the GOP complaining the media are out to get them?

Hillary Clinton is a truly awful person.   What you will get with her is more of the same.  Here is an article about her involvement with Libya.  As Sec of State she screwed up Libya, Syria, and Honduras.  She embodies precisely what is wrong in Washington today.  She is a female Frank Underwood.  In my book, she is the worst of our choices.  Alas, the other choices are not much to write home to mom about. 

Bernie Sanders is an interesting guy.  He's supposedly the outsider, but he's a politician through and through.  The guy never answers a question.  He answers every question with infantile populist claptrap.  Anyone who doesn't discount this guys ideas right off the bat is a problem.  Rainbows & lollipops for all!  The fact that this guy can get anyone outside of an insane asylum or a preschool to vote for him is truly depressing and shows what an abject failure our educational system has become.  

Alas on the Republican side things don't seem much better.  Donald Trump is a blowhard who literally has no philosophical underpinnings.  You just don't know what this guy is going to do once in the White House.

John Kasich.  The guy sounds reasonable, and then he chimes in with "Let's invade North Korea".  I was left wondering when the guys in white suits carrying butterfly nets would come after him. 

Ted Cruz.  This guy is just creepy.  He's very preachy.  Everybody hates him.  He would get nothing done.  Wait, maybe we're on to something here.    

Jackson_Fusion said:

paulsurovell said:

For those who do not know, Hillary's remarks were made in her Daily News interview this week.  The corporate media has ignored it, but instead continues to spout the false mantra that Bernie bungled his interview.

She will say anything to get elected.


http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-hillary-clinton-meets-news-editorial-board-article-1.2596292?utm_content=buffer9cc34&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDailyNewsTw

Point of fact- Bernie did bungle his interview. 

The issue isn't the interview, I'll agree. The issue is what it revealed.

Hillary can be a war monger while Bernie remains radically befuddled. It's not either or.

One of numerous rebuttals of the mantra that Bernie "bungled" the interview:

http://huff.to/1RMZcqF

supported by:

terp said:

Bernie Sanders is an interesting guy.  He's supposedly the outsider, but he's a politician through and through.  The guy never answers a question.  He answers every question with infantile populist claptrap.  Anyone who doesn't discount this guys ideas right off the bat is a problem.  Rainbows & lollipops for all!  The fact that this guy can get anyone outside of an insane asylum or a preschool to vote for him is truly depressing and shows what an abject failure our educational system has become.  

You've got a problem with the world, because most of Bernie's proposals have been adopted by nearly every major country.

BCC said:

ZZ is right. Bernie showed an amazing ignorance of the Israeli- Palestinian situation.

Everything he said on Israel-Palestine was accurate.  Especially calling out Hillary's pandering to AIPAC.

I wonder how many in the media will observe that Bernie destroyed Hillary on foreign policy (on Libya, Syria and Iraq as well as Israel-Palestine).

I covered a number of his points in a piece I wrote last week:

http://www.beaboutpeace.com/pdf/Peace%20Candidate%20Bernie%20Sanders.pdf

I didn't see the debate, so can someone show me an example of the amazing ignorance of Sanders on Israel? If it was so profoundly bad it should be easy to provide many examples.

Bernie dominated her on Israel-Palestine, Syria and Libya.

Here's the transcript on Israel and on Libya and Syria

Israel showed far to much restraint in its actions against terrorists operating from amidst the general population.  Any use of the word disproportionate is an absolute lie in furtherance of the destruction of Israel. 

So Hamas is allowed to attack Israel from apartment buildings,  hospitals and UN facilities and all that is ok but if Israel defends itself isit is disproportionate.  

And Sanders still uses a number killed that includes active Hamas fighters to bolster his claim of disproportionate actions.  So to him Isreal can not even attack those actively attacking them.