How long ago did Russia recruit Trump?
Jaytee said:
Since he couldn’t get anymore money to borrow in the USA…
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/21/how-russian-money-helped-save-trumps-business/
According to Trump’s former real-estate partner and other sources who are familiar with the internal workings of the Trump Organization, his post-’90s revival may have really begun in the early 2000s with the Bayrock Group, which rented offices two floors down from Trump’s in Trump Tower. Bayrock was run by two investors who would help to change Trump’s trajectory: Tevfik Arif, a Kazakhstan-born former Soviet official who drew on seemingly bottomless sources of money from the former Soviet republic; and Felix Sater, a Russian-born businessman who had pleaded guilty in the 1990s to a huge stock-fraud scheme involving the Russian mafia.
paulsurovell said:
paul,
I'm wondering what you think the damage that Trump has done to the U.S. that might be favorable to Russia's aims. Or do you think there is none?
And do you understand that none of this damage has anything to do with any actions or critical words against Russia that Trump might have taken or said?
Or are you just too taken in by the Russia Hoax to actually see what's going on?
paulsurovell said:
They are not laughing now, that's for sure. Looks like the Russiagate hoax has some long-term consequences. And here is Trump being right for once, and no one can admit it.
nan said:
paulsurovell said:
They are not laughing now, that's for sure. Looks like the Russiagate hoax has some long-term consequences. And here is Trump being right for once, and no one can admit it.
join paul with not getting it. no surprise.
drummerboy said:
nan said:
paulsurovell said:
They are not laughing now, that's for sure. Looks like the Russiagate hoax has some long-term consequences. And here is Trump being right for once, and no one can admit it.
join paul with not getting it. no surprise.
l’m ignoring the OP’s ridiculous, perhaps satirical, statement. I was responding to Paul’s video, which I had forgotten.
nan said:
l’m ignoring the OP’s ridiculous, perhaps satirical, statement. I was responding to Paul’s video, which I had forgotten.
again, you don't get it.
try answering the questions I put to paul that he's ignoring:
I'm wondering what you think the damage that Trump has done to the U.S. that might be favorable to Russia's aims. Or do you think there is none?
And do you understand that none of this damage has anything to do with any actions or critical words against Russia that Trump might have taken or said?
Or are you just too taken in by the Russia Hoax to actually see what's going on?
As Paul's video shows, Trump was delivering Putin's energy blackmail threat.
paulsurovell said:
drummerboy said:
again, you don't get it.
try answering the questions I put to paul that he's ignoring:
I'm wondering what you think the damage that Trump has done to the U.S. that might be favorable to Russia's aims. Or do you think there is none?
And do you understand that none of this damage has anything to do with any actions or critical words against Russia that Trump might have taken or said?
Or are you just too taken in by the Russia Hoax to actually see what's going on?
I don’t understand your questions. What do you think Russia’s aims are? I think we disagree on that.
Trump did not renew the nuclear treaty with Russia. That was bad.
Trump sent weapons to Ukraine. That was bad.
People in the US were so obsessed with Trump they did not pay attention to what was going on in Ukraine. And when they did they got it wrong. They were incensed when he briefly stopped the shipments.
People were so convinced that Putin controlled Trump they were unable to see how he hurt relations with them and why it was important to have good relations with Russia. Many are still in this mindset.
nan said:
drummerboy said:
again, you don't get it.
try answering the questions I put to paul that he's ignoring:
I'm wondering what you think the damage that Trump has done to the U.S. that might be favorable to Russia's aims. Or do you think there is none?
And do you understand that none of this damage has anything to do with any actions or critical words against Russia that Trump might have taken or said?
Or are you just too taken in by the Russia Hoax to actually see what's going on?
I don’t understand your questions. What do you think Russia’s aims are? I think we disagree on that.
Trump did not renew the nuclear treaty with Russia. That was bad.Trump sent weapons to Ukraine. That was bad.
People in the US were so obsessed with Trump they did not pay attention to what was going on in Ukraine. And when they did they got it wrong. They were incensed when he briefly stopped the shipments.
People were so convinced that Putin controlled Trump they were unable to see how he hurt relations with them and why it was important to have good relations with Russia. Many are still in this mindset.
nope. You don't get it. Not that i expected you to. You relate everything to the so-called Russia Hoax, blinding you to what's actually happening.
drummerboy said:
nan said:
drummerboy said:
again, you don't get it.
try answering the questions I put to paul that he's ignoring:
I'm wondering what you think the damage that Trump has done to the U.S. that might be favorable to Russia's aims. Or do you think there is none?
And do you understand that none of this damage has anything to do with any actions or critical words against Russia that Trump might have taken or said?
Or are you just too taken in by the Russia Hoax to actually see what's going on?
I don’t understand your questions. What do you think Russia’s aims are? I think we disagree on that.
Trump did not renew the nuclear treaty with Russia. That was bad.Trump sent weapons to Ukraine. That was bad.
People in the US were so obsessed with Trump they did not pay attention to what was going on in Ukraine. And when they did they got it wrong. They were incensed when he briefly stopped the shipments.
People were so convinced that Putin controlled Trump they were unable to see how he hurt relations with them and why it was important to have good relations with Russia. Many are still in this mindset.
nope. You don't get it. Not that i expected you to. You relate everything to the so-called Russia Hoax, blinding you to what's actually happening.
OK, since you are just going to throw out insults I guess that conversation is over. Too bad, because it had potential.
nan said:
drummerboy said:
nan said:
drummerboy said:
again, you don't get it.
try answering the questions I put to paul that he's ignoring:
I'm wondering what you think the damage that Trump has done to the U.S. that might be favorable to Russia's aims. Or do you think there is none?
And do you understand that none of this damage has anything to do with any actions or critical words against Russia that Trump might have taken or said?
Or are you just too taken in by the Russia Hoax to actually see what's going on?
I don’t understand your questions. What do you think Russia’s aims are? I think we disagree on that.
Trump did not renew the nuclear treaty with Russia. That was bad.Trump sent weapons to Ukraine. That was bad.
People in the US were so obsessed with Trump they did not pay attention to what was going on in Ukraine. And when they did they got it wrong. They were incensed when he briefly stopped the shipments.
People were so convinced that Putin controlled Trump they were unable to see how he hurt relations with them and why it was important to have good relations with Russia. Many are still in this mindset.
nope. You don't get it. Not that i expected you to. You relate everything to the so-called Russia Hoax, blinding you to what's actually happening.
OK, since you are just going to throw out insults I guess that conversation is over. Too bad, because it had potential.
what insult?
drummerboy said:
nan said:
drummerboy said:
nan said:
drummerboy said:
again, you don't get it.
try answering the questions I put to paul that he's ignoring:
I'm wondering what you think the damage that Trump has done to the U.S. that might be favorable to Russia's aims. Or do you think there is none?
And do you understand that none of this damage has anything to do with any actions or critical words against Russia that Trump might have taken or said?
Or are you just too taken in by the Russia Hoax to actually see what's going on?
I don’t understand your questions. What do you think Russia’s aims are? I think we disagree on that.
Trump did not renew the nuclear treaty with Russia. That was bad.Trump sent weapons to Ukraine. That was bad.
People in the US were so obsessed with Trump they did not pay attention to what was going on in Ukraine. And when they did they got it wrong. They were incensed when he briefly stopped the shipments.
People were so convinced that Putin controlled Trump they were unable to see how he hurt relations with them and why it was important to have good relations with Russia. Many are still in this mindset.
nope. You don't get it. Not that i expected you to. You relate everything to the so-called Russia Hoax, blinding you to what's actually happening.
OK, since you are just going to throw out insults I guess that conversation is over. Too bad, because it had potential.
what insult?
Now look who is not getting it.
nan said:
drummerboy said:
nan said:
drummerboy said:
nan said:
drummerboy said:
again, you don't get it.
try answering the questions I put to paul that he's ignoring:
I'm wondering what you think the damage that Trump has done to the U.S. that might be favorable to Russia's aims. Or do you think there is none?
And do you understand that none of this damage has anything to do with any actions or critical words against Russia that Trump might have taken or said?
Or are you just too taken in by the Russia Hoax to actually see what's going on?
I don’t understand your questions. What do you think Russia’s aims are? I think we disagree on that.
Trump did not renew the nuclear treaty with Russia. That was bad.Trump sent weapons to Ukraine. That was bad.
People in the US were so obsessed with Trump they did not pay attention to what was going on in Ukraine. And when they did they got it wrong. They were incensed when he briefly stopped the shipments.
People were so convinced that Putin controlled Trump they were unable to see how he hurt relations with them and why it was important to have good relations with Russia. Many are still in this mindset.
nope. You don't get it. Not that i expected you to. You relate everything to the so-called Russia Hoax, blinding you to what's actually happening.
OK, since you are just going to throw out insults I guess that conversation is over. Too bad, because it had potential.
what insult?
Now look who is not getting it.
there is no chance of a fruitful conversation here, because you will never acknowledge that Putin really wanted Trump to be elected in 2016, and he did what he could to effect that outcome.
Since that election, Trump has managed to damage American democracy like no man before him. And for that Putin laughs himself to sleep every night. Well, at least until lately, where he now cries himself to sleep over his Ukraine debacle.
drummerboy said:
nan said:
drummerboy said:
nan said:
drummerboy said:
nan said:
drummerboy said:
again, you don't get it.
try answering the questions I put to paul that he's ignoring:
I'm wondering what you think the damage that Trump has done to the U.S. that might be favorable to Russia's aims. Or do you think there is none?
And do you understand that none of this damage has anything to do with any actions or critical words against Russia that Trump might have taken or said?
Or are you just too taken in by the Russia Hoax to actually see what's going on?
I don’t understand your questions. What do you think Russia’s aims are? I think we disagree on that.
Trump did not renew the nuclear treaty with Russia. That was bad.Trump sent weapons to Ukraine. That was bad.
People in the US were so obsessed with Trump they did not pay attention to what was going on in Ukraine. And when they did they got it wrong. They were incensed when he briefly stopped the shipments.
People were so convinced that Putin controlled Trump they were unable to see how he hurt relations with them and why it was important to have good relations with Russia. Many are still in this mindset.
nope. You don't get it. Not that i expected you to. You relate everything to the so-called Russia Hoax, blinding you to what's actually happening.
OK, since you are just going to throw out insults I guess that conversation is over. Too bad, because it had potential.
what insult?
Now look who is not getting it.
there is no chance of a fruitful conversation here, because you will never acknowledge that Putin really wanted Trump to be elected in 2016, and he did what he could to effect that outcome.
Since that election, Trump has managed to damage American democracy like no man before him. And for that Putin laughs himself to sleep every night. Well, at least until lately, where he now cries himself to sleep over his Ukraine debacle.
Yeah, you are right. There is zero evidence that Putin wanted Trump elected and did anything to affect that outcome.
I also don't agree that Trump "managed to damage American democracy like no man before him." I don't get the Democrats obsession with Trump. I'm enjoying not having to hear about him everyday or listen to his stupid pronouncements. Democrats seem to miss him and want to bring him up as though he were still president. For some reason, Rob Reiner's twitter feed shows up in mine and the guy only posts about Trump every day. He has some mental condition caused by Trump. All this talk about Trump is futile because, with our system, he, or someone just as bad or worse, will be president soon enough, so lets just relax a big, OK? Enjoy what might be our last days--nuclear war might well be nigh. The neocons have no STOP or OFF-Ramp function.
Also, we don't have a democracy to begin with. We have an oligarchy or plutocracy and we are at late stage Capitalism. The conditions were right to get someone like Trump elected and will continue to be like that. I think Biden has been just as bad or worse. He's senile and spent his time focused on foreign policy disasters such as Ukraine. He did very little for ordinary people and they are hurting and angry. We have disconnects between groups of people and the media encourages that and we seem to be at a boiling point. Instead of trying to bring people together, Biden makes a speech where he insults half the country. This is not what we need right now. We still have a pandemic, but we are told we don't. We have a housing crisis and a food crisis and just so many ways that we cannot feel safe or protected. This is what we should be spending our money on, not into the black box that is Ukraine. Not to mention starting trouble in other places such as China.
Don't see how the Democrats can win in November, but I'm not even sure they care if they win or not. But, who ever wins, foreign policy will not change and that's what is killing us the most. We need to stop trying to be the biggest baddest a-hole in the Valley of the Shadow and just try being the best that we can be and get along with others. The neocons will never do that--they would rather we all die. Look what's going on in the EU. Tragic, and it was so easily avoidable (but then not profitable to military contractors).
nan said:
Yeah, you are right. There is zero evidence that Putin wanted Trump elected and did anything to affect that outcome.
I also don't agree that Trump "managed to damage American democracy like no man before him." I don't get the Democrats obsession with Trump. I'm enjoying not having to hear about him everyday or listen to his stupid pronouncements. Democrats seem to miss him and want to bring him up as though he were still president. For some reason, Rob Reiner's twitter feed shows up in mine and the guy only posts about Trump every day. He has some mental condition caused by Trump. All this talk about Trump is futile because, with our system, he, or someone just as bad or worse, will be president soon enough, so lets just relax a big, OK? Enjoy what might be our last days--nuclear war might well be nigh. The neocons have no STOP or OFF-Ramp function.
Also, we don't have a democracy to begin with. We have an oligarchy or plutocracy and we are at late stage Capitalism. The conditions were right to get someone like Trump elected and will continue to be like that. I think Biden has been just as bad or worse. He's senile and spent his time focused on foreign policy disasters such as Ukraine. He did very little for ordinary people and they are hurting and angry. We have disconnects between groups of people and the media encourages that and we seem to be at a boiling point. Instead of trying to bring people together, Biden makes a speech where he insults half the country. This is not what we need right now. We still have a pandemic, but we are told we don't. We have a housing crisis and a food crisis and just so many ways that we cannot feel safe or protected. This is what we should be spending our money on, not into the black box that is Ukraine. Not to mention starting trouble in other places such as China.
Don't see how the Democrats can win in November, but I'm not even sure they care if they win or not. But, who ever wins, foreign policy will not change and that's what is killing us the most. We need to stop trying to be the biggest baddest a-hole in the Valley of the Shadow and just try being the best that we can be and get along with others. The neocons will never do that--they would rather we all die. Look what's going on in the EU. Tragic, and it was so easily avoidable (but then not profitable to military contractors).
Idiocy ^^^
sbenois said:
nan said:
Yeah, you are right. There is zero evidence that Putin wanted Trump elected and did anything to affect that outcome.
I also don't agree that Trump "managed to damage American democracy like no man before him." I don't get the Democrats obsession with Trump. I'm enjoying not having to hear about him everyday or listen to his stupid pronouncements. Democrats seem to miss him and want to bring him up as though he were still president. For some reason, Rob Reiner's twitter feed shows up in mine and the guy only posts about Trump every day. He has some mental condition caused by Trump. All this talk about Trump is futile because, with our system, he, or someone just as bad or worse, will be president soon enough, so lets just relax a big, OK? Enjoy what might be our last days--nuclear war might well be nigh. The neocons have no STOP or OFF-Ramp function.
Also, we don't have a democracy to begin with. We have an oligarchy or plutocracy and we are at late stage Capitalism. The conditions were right to get someone like Trump elected and will continue to be like that. I think Biden has been just as bad or worse. He's senile and spent his time focused on foreign policy disasters such as Ukraine. He did very little for ordinary people and they are hurting and angry. We have disconnects between groups of people and the media encourages that and we seem to be at a boiling point. Instead of trying to bring people together, Biden makes a speech where he insults half the country. This is not what we need right now. We still have a pandemic, but we are told we don't. We have a housing crisis and a food crisis and just so many ways that we cannot feel safe or protected. This is what we should be spending our money on, not into the black box that is Ukraine. Not to mention starting trouble in other places such as China.
Don't see how the Democrats can win in November, but I'm not even sure they care if they win or not. But, who ever wins, foreign policy will not change and that's what is killing us the most. We need to stop trying to be the biggest baddest a-hole in the Valley of the Shadow and just try being the best that we can be and get along with others. The neocons will never do that--they would rather we all die. Look what's going on in the EU. Tragic, and it was so easily avoidable (but then not profitable to military contractors).
Idiocy ^^^
yeah. I didn't even bother.
No wonder your house is a mess… the time you waste typing the same horsesiht over and over could be better spent doing something productive.
Jaytee said:
No wonder your house is a mess… the time you waste typing the same horsesiht over and over could be better spent doing something productive.
So, as usual, I write something substantive and get nothing but insults. I do need to spend less time here because a bunch of you don't know how to do a respectful two-way conversation. No one said you had to agree.
I will go back to not responding to drummerboy, Jaytee and Sbenois. It's clearly a waste of time.
nan said:
Jaytee said:
No wonder your house is a mess… the time you waste typing the same horsesiht over and over could be better spent doing something productive.
So, as usual, I write something substantive and get nothing but insults. I do need to spend less time here because a bunch of you don't know how to do a respectful two-way conversation. No one said you had to agree.
I will go back to not responding to drummerboy, Jaytee and Sbenois. It's clearly a waste of time.
ya see, you call it substantive, but the first sentence tells us we're getting fruit loops. And then you launch into la-la land.
Your post is an example of what Trump's biggest and most damaging effect has been - bifurcation of reality. Or with you, I guess it's a trifurcation. Luckily your particular section is still pretty small, but the QANON/MAGA/election-denial section is big enough to cause real problems, and it's getting bigger.
Republicans are scattering across the country getting ready to overturn elections.
But yeah, talk about oligarchy, as if that's a solvable problem by people with your beliefs.
It’s just the same story, matters not the length of the posting. Neocon blah blah blah…it’s always someone else’s fault…Russia is only doing what anyone else would do…blah!
nan said:
Jaytee said:
No wonder your house is a mess… the time you waste typing the same horsesiht over and over could be better spent doing something productive.
So, as usual, I write something substantive and get nothing but insults. I do need to spend less time here because a bunch of you don't know how to do a respectful two-way conversation. No one said you had to agree.
I will go back to not responding to drummerboy, Jaytee and Sbenois. It's clearly a waste of time.
The biggest waste of time is whatever you spend on the diarrhea that comes thru your keyboard.
dave said:
I'm just looking for a specific date. No need for bickering.
In that case I'd say it was the date of the pee tape.
dave said:
I'm just looking for a specific date. No need for bickering.
I would say it was late November 1992. Exact date is difficult to establish.
I'm going to guess 1996, his second trip.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_projects_of_Donald_Trump_in_Russia
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Given the damage done to the nation along with his grift, his general admiration of tyrants, and dislike of pro-democratic alliances, one has to wonder if Trump has been an actual asset for the Kremlin. It's a sobering thought to entertain that a third of our government was in the hands of adversaries.