Standby Generator - Who does installation? Recomendation/Suggestions archived

First, get a permit from the town. You'll need to have a pad installed outside for the generator, so you'll need a site plan of the house keeping in mind setbacks, etc. A plumber will install the natural gas line. You should check with the utility though about whether your gas line from the street is adequate -- a whole house unit uses a heck of a lot of fuel. The electrician will install the transfer switch and wire all up. Total installed costs for a whole use unit? Depending on whether you really want "whole house" - including being able to run central air, electric stoves, etc. or the basics -- easily $15k- $20k

This will help you size the unit for your needs

http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/power/whole-house-standby-generators.html

edited to add -- neighbor just bought a generator at Home Depot -- along with a 2 gallon gas can. When I told her she'd need about a gallon PER HOUR to run the thing on max, she was rather surprised. now in reality, you'd probably cycle the thing on/off for a couple hours at a time, but they burn lots of fuel. so a natural gas unit makes much sense

I've been doing some reading and I suggest adding up the draw for what you consider the "essentials"-a/c, heat, sump pump, fridge- and buying a little above that. That can change your "whole house" 20kw unit to a more reasonable 7-10k unit, and substantially drop costs. They'll wire in a panel to power just those essential circuits in the event of an outage. If you need to charge your phone, unplug your fridge for a half hour, your food will be fine.

I can't cycle ours off and on or the basement will flood. Need to keep getting power to the sump pumps.

peteglider said:

First, get a permit from the town. You'll need to have a pad installed outside for the generator, so you'll need a site plan of the house keeping in mind setbacks, etc. A plumber will install the natural gas line. You should check with the utility though about whether your gas line from the street is adequate -- a whole house unit uses a heck of a lot of fuel. The electrician will install the transfer switch and wire all up. Total installed costs for a whole use unit? Depending on whether you really want "whole house" - including being able to run central air, electric stoves, etc. or the basics -- easily $15k- $20k

This will help you size the unit for your needs

http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/power/whole-house-standby-generators.html

edited to add -- neighbor just bought a generator at Home Depot -- along with a 2 gallon gas can. When I told her she'd need about a gallon PER HOUR to run the thing on max, she was rather surprised. now in reality, you'd probably cycle the thing on/off for a couple hours at a time, but they burn lots of fuel. so a natural gas unit makes much sense

This is a small generator, about 7000Watts. The generator is about 2000K. 15K+ for installation is just outrageous! We are just starting our research regarding costs to determine if it is feasible. This will only be used for some items in the house. We do not need to power ever room and every TV in house in the event of an emergency. Just want to keep the house warm, the food in the fridge unspoiled and the basement from flooding. We just don't want to have to go back and forth with diesel or LP to power the thing or use power cords. So I am looking for recomendations for the work since we want to get some estimates from various people for the electrical portion as well as the gas portion. And yes we will check with the utility companies to determine what is feasible and get a permit once we move forward with the work. So far we are just in the research stages.

I've been driven to the research stage too, and am working on recovering from sticker shock. It seems like an expensive luxury, even if you add up the cost of spoiled food, decamping to a hotel for a few days if the outage drags on, and drama and inconvenience outages cause. If we keep getting hit like we have been 2-3 times a year, then it might make some sense. Still, it's a luxury. Anyone have a good resource who could come out and give an estimate on one of these?

$15-$20k is for the whole thing -- take a look -- a whole house generator starts at $10k, before install, permits, etc. If you drop down to a smaller size generator -- you might spend $2k on a generator then another couple thousand on permits/install. (and you need to decide if you want an automatic or manual transfer switch -- that will add $300 - $1000 to cost). That size unit will be able to run the furnace & fridge plus a handful of lights. May be all you need of course.

Keep in mind that unless your house wiring is currently configured in a way that works with that -- a code approved install can't simply install a a small kw generator to your entire circuit box. You may need to add a couple of circuits that are, say, "lights only" in a few areas of the house, or a circuit that feeds only the fridge.

My neighbor has a whole house natural gas unit -- runs a/c in summer if needed, etc -- truly the whole house. Installed cost was over $20k.

I decided on a small portable generator, as we basically never get water in the basement. All I need to power is the boiler and fridge. A week without power really ain't no thang (so long as you have heat and non-spoiled food!)

If you have to run a sump pump, maybe a battery backup with a water-powered backup to the backup along with a small portable generator? If a whole house system really is $15k that's probably a cost-savings of 90%.

I wonder what the breaking point is for figuring out if it's worth it to do a full install.

pmartinezv said:

This is a small generator, about 7000Watts. The generator is about 2000K. 15K+ for installation is just outrageous! We are just starting our research regarding costs to determine if it is feasible. This will only be used for some items in the house. We do not need to power ever room and every TV in house in the event of an emergency. Just want to keep the house warm, the food in the fridge unspoiled and the basement from flooding. We just don't want to have to go back and forth with diesel or LP to power the thing or use power cords. So I am looking for recomendations for the work since we want to get some estimates from various people for the electrical portion as well as the gas portion. And yes we will check with the utility companies to determine what is feasible and get a permit once we move forward with the work. So far we are just in the research stages.

Try the Kohler & Generac sites. I did a search on Kohlers site - got a number of installers though none that I recognized. On Generacs site quite a few more came up, including names of local businesses that I recognize ( though none that I've used)

I would assume that this
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Generac-5837-Standby-Generator/p5524.html
would be suitable for most people.
I'd also assume that install and permit would probably bring the total cost to 5-6k.

Question, then--so how does it work if you have a small/portable generator just to run the boiler and the fridge? How does that hook into the electrical panel? Also--don't those have to be run outside? Just wondering how that works noise-wise, etc?

dobler88 said:

Question, then--so how does it work if you have a small/portable generator just to run the boiler and the fridge? How does that hook into the electrical panel? Also--don't those have to be run outside? Just wondering how that works noise-wise, etc?

Pretty sure you need a transfer switch put in. And yes, it has to be run outside.

dobler88 said:

Question, then--so how does it work if you have a small/portable generator just to run the boiler and the fridge? How does that hook into the electrical panel? Also--don't those have to be run outside? Just wondering how that works noise-wise, etc?

You have a transfer switch installed by an electrician. When the power goes out, you plug the generator into this switch and flip it to isolate your house from the grid (so you don't electrocute the PSEG guys who think the line is dead).

15-20 k is way too high. If you are paying that much you are getting ripped off by someone.

Aren't these prices a little ridiculous? Natural Gas seems to me the way to go and don't you just need something to cover the essentials of your home (as was said earlier?). Who can't get by if in an emergency they were restricted to 8000W? People are getting by just fine in large home with these under $500 4000W gas generators.

Generac Guardian Series 5882 8,000 Watt Air-Cooled Liquid Propane/Natural Gas Powered Standby Generator Without Transfer Switch under $2,000. (and w/free shipping).
http://www.amazon.com/Generac-5882-Air-Cooled-Generator-Compliant/dp/B003IWYRWO/ref=pd_sim_sbs_ol_12

A Briggs & Stratton 7000W unit under $2,000
http://www.amazon.com/Briggs-Stratton-40301-Generator-Compliant/dp/B001LNN868/ref=pd_sim_sbs_ol_9

How can a $2,000 Natural Gas Generator cost more than $4K - $5K installed and ready to go?

akishima said:

Aren't these prices a little ridiculous? Natural Gas seems to me the way to go and don't you just need something to cover the essentials of your home (as was said earlier?). Who can't get by if in an emergency they were restricted to 8000W? People are getting by just fine in large home with these under $500 4000W gas generators.

Generac Guardian Series 5882 8,000 Watt Air-Cooled Liquid Propane/Natural Gas Powered Standby Generator Without Transfer Switch under $2,000. (and w/free shipping).
http://www.amazon.com/Generac-5882-Air-Cooled-Generator-Compliant/dp/B003IWYRWO/ref=pd_sim_sbs_ol_12

A Briggs & Stratton 7000W unit under $2,000
http://www.amazon.com/Briggs-Stratton-40301-Generator-Compliant/dp/B001LNN868/ref=pd_sim_sbs_ol_9

How can a $2,000 Natural Gas Generator cost more than $4K - $5K installed and ready to go?

Chuckle.....

And here I thought you were going to say that back up generators are racist. You have some balls posting here.....

Regardless of size of generator, for a permanently installed generator you need plans, permits (plumbing, electrical, construction), site plan. Usually the prices don't include transfer switches or controls. They use a pretty high volume of gas -- so need to be situated close to the gas meter and/or you need to have appropriate sized gas piping installed. You may need to have electrical circuits within the house reconfigured. A pad needs to be installed outside, someone has to deliver and cart the unit into place. You need an electrician & plumber. That's whether you want to install a 7 kw or 20kw unit. Yes, a smaller unit is less complex and will be cheaper to install, but there's still base costs -- an electrician for 1/2 day vs full day -- not that huge a savings.

Easiest thing -- have a transfer switch installed that goes to the boiler, the fridge, and install a circuit that offers a couple of outlets throughout the house. Get a manual (vs automatic) transfer switch. Go for manual stuff, vs auto transfer, auto start/etc. All that will save big bucks.

If you are running on back-up generator with a transfer switch, that means you will turn off the main panel while on generator, correct? Then how do you know when power has been restored to your house?

peteglider said:

Regardless of size of generator, for a permanently installed generator you need plans, permits (plumbing, electrical, construction), site plan. Usually the prices don't include transfer switches or controls. They use a pretty high volume of gas -- so need to be situated close to the gas meter and/or you need to have appropriate sized gas piping installed. You may need to have electrical circuits within the house reconfigured. A pad needs to be installed outside, someone has to deliver and cart the unit into place. You need an electrician & plumber. That's whether you want to install a 7 kw or 20kw unit. Yes, a smaller unit is less complex and will be cheaper to install, but there's still base costs -- an electrician for 1/2 day vs full day -- not that huge a savings.

Easiest thing -- have a transfer switch installed that goes to the boiler, the fridge, and install a circuit that offers a couple of outlets throughout the house. Get a manual (vs automatic) transfer switch. Go for manual stuff, vs auto transfer, auto start/etc. All that will save big bucks.

The one I was looking at, at less than 2K includes "It does come with the pre-wired load center, transfer switch, mounting pad and flexible fuel line connector."

It is also relatively small so the size of the "construction" should be rather small as well. It is pretty heavy but does not appear to be that difficult to move to new location. It comes with the mounting pad also.

Dimensions L x W x H (in.) 24 x 30 x 33
Ship Weight 280.0 lbs

pmartinezv, sounds like you're looking at the 5837 Generac Core Power 7kW Air-Cooled Automatic Standby Generator W/8-Circuit Transfer Switch, $1,800, 6 Reviews & 4 Stars at HomeDepot.com
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Generators/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xk4Zbree/R-202214401/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051#BVRRWidgetID

Many of the points Peteglider makes in running up the cost simply don't pan out, for example, "The included composite mounting pad eliminates the need to pour a concrete base for installation convenience". Again, Home Depot ships the unit to your home on a pallet, FREE. From that point - hiring an electrician and plumber, blah blah blah, how does it cost more than $2K-$3K in expense after delivery, to get this up and running? Seems to me anyone can get such a system installed and operating for less than $5K.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=C98bnJSbZaw

That is the one I am researching at this point.

You can do this on a reasonable budget if you do the leg work yourself -- stop by town hall & learn about setbacks, what kind of detailed plans need to be submitted, etc. Draw the plans yourself. Then get a hold of PSEG and find out about pressure & volume of gas supplied to your home so there are no surprises.

A plastic mounting pad may be allowed by the town, you'll need to check. Allow plenty of access for service - oil changes, replacement battery (which it needs), filters, etc. The closer you can put it to the meter/gas line -- you'll save on plumbing. (e.g., 25' of cable is probably lots cheaper than 25' of plumbing). Check with Generac about accessories needed for cold climates, etc. too.

a 7 kw unit can handle a fridge, boiler, sump pump and some lighting -- so the electrical circuits for the transfer switch need to "match" get a hold of one of the well recommended electricians on MOL to get them to give you some costs.

Good luck with your project!

Give Greg a call @ Power Plus Electric 201-306-1493. He installed a portable generator hook up with a simple transfer switch and a plug right outside so I can plug it right in. It cost under $1500! Excluding the generator and If I never lose power again at least I have piece of mind without breaking the bank

sprout said:

If you are running on back-up generator with a transfer switch, that means you will turn off the main panel while on generator, correct? Then how do you know when power has been restored to your house?

With this

http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-THP108/p4112.html

Thanks -- that seems to be discontinued, but it makes sense that it takes some other sensor thingy... or checking if your neighbors without a generator have any lights on.

Next question: Can you use a portable natural-gas powered generator for emergencies, or does the gas hookup have to be more permanent/heavy duty (such as NG can only be used for an installed stand-by generator)? We have an ancient gas grill in the backyard that was likely hooked up to the house's NG line, so I'm guessing some outside line is possible -- but how would it be set up as an emergency hookup only?

And is a natural gas generator quieter than a gasoline powered one, or is it about the same?

This is from the Mlllburn-Short Hills Newcomers/Encores mailing list. I just pass it on, I have no direct knowledge.

"We are very happy with our house generator and the company who installed it: Speer Air (www.speerair.com; 800-547-2580 -- ask for Kevin Blair, our sales rep). They do the complete job including ordering the building permit, running the gas line, setting up the electrical panel and testing your house to make sure everything works. It was very simple and we thought easier than the portable one that you must store in the garage. This one will click in within 20 seconds of losing power and will ensure that we have enough power to live on. We bought a 14KW generator which is larger than the portable one. With the portable one, we could run two long extension cords from outside, need to leave a window open and run them through the window. With the built in generator, the windows are closed (helps prevent exhaust from coming in) and we can run many more items (about 16 circuits from our electrical panel).
They charged $7500 for everything (exactly the same as their estimate). I say that only b/c some companies give you one estimate and then find other things to charge for. My neighbor used them last winter and has now used the generator twice (both Irene and the snow storm"

The problem I always run into when looking at a whole house unit is the clearance around the unit that is needed. It is often 6 foot in every direction, which puts the thing in the middle of my back yard. Has anyone found something without this requirement?

I stopped into Home Depot today and they had a table set out with some info on standby generators. The woman there said that she understood that installs of 14kw standbys were running between $10-11K, including the unit. Someone also mentioned that he understood that they burned about $100/day worth of natural gas.

Okay, just ran the numbers and the guy was wrong. Looking at my PSE&G bill, a therm runs a little over $1 and at full bore, the generac should burn about 25 therms/day (220 cubic feet/hour).