Seller is removing in-ground oil tank...is soil testing required? archived

You're being paranoid. If there's significant contamination it should be immediately apparent, and a reputable contractor will take appropriate steps.

I thought soil testing was standard procedure when a tank is removed.

it is

At 10 years old, there is a low probability that the tank is leaking. Although, it's weird that they put a tank in the ground so recently. I'm surprised that this happened. I'd be more interested in finding out why they did this. It would have been cheaper to put a tank in the basement, unless they were replacing one. Which begs the question: was there a prior tank, where is the soil test report and, if contamination was found, where is the NFA letter?

There should be permits on file with the town for both removal and installation.

I agree with Me&. These guys are pretty good at their jobs & can spot pinholes. It is not in their interest to cover up and the insurance company (if there is one) sends an observer.

I think that soil sampling is normal. If they find any contamination, they keep digging until the soil sample is clear. If you want to know the difference in testing methods, call the remediation company & ask. In your hard clay soil, it is pretty hard to miss.

Although, since the old tank is likely sitting in fill dirt, it may not be so obvious. I would be tempted to request that the sampling be done down to the clay, which shouldn't be far at all. You can also ask to observe the pull so that you can ask questions. The seller's realtor will have to show up, but who cares?

I watched my own tank pull and learned a lot. These guys know their stuff.

Maybe it isn't only ten years old.

There is no guessing done- the soil will be tested- it is standard as part of the tank removal. From a point of view of buying it would be the only direction to take. The testing will insure the ground is clean.
Good luck.

Thanks for all your responses. I suppose as long as they follow all NJDEP removal requirements it should be fine...Though I haven't learned how to navigate NJDEP 's site to find their detailed oil tank removal requirements.

Greenetree...thanks for your thorough response. We too were puzzled by their decision to install an underground tank 10 years ago, so that's why I'm a bit apprehensive. I plan to review township files to see what is on file. Thanks again...

The age of the tank sounds fishy. We bought our house 12 years ago and homeowners were decommissioning tanks just to sell their homes. I'd be surprised that someone would put a new tank in the ground. See if you can get the paperwork.

I just had my tank pulled, and I'm not sure if they did any soil testing. What was most important to them, and they made a point of showing me, was that there was no staining or evidence of corrosion or perforation anywhere on the tank.

If they had found a leak, I could see that they would excavate and test at that location. But where do they test if there's no sign of a tank leak? Do they just take random samples from the bottom of the hole? Seems kind of pointless.

I could see valid reasons for installing another in-ground tank ten years ago. Maybe the basement is small and no room to spare? Or too difficult to get a tank into the basement? I had to pay $1,000 above and beyond the cost of my new tanks for the plumbing and venting work to install them in the basement, so it wasn't the cheaper option. I'm guessing in-ground oil tanks weren't so much of a burning issue ten years ago.

I believe there is a distinction between removal in response to a known leak and a removal for the sake of a removal. Leak removals result from pressure testing of the tank. If the tank fails the pressure testing, soil testing follows. The nightmare ends when you get the final certification from DEP that all has been remedied.

greenetree said:

In your hard clay soil, it is pretty hard to miss...
....Although, since the old tank is likely sitting in fill dirt, it may not be so obvious. I would be tempted to request that the sampling be done down to the clay, which shouldn't be far at all..

Unless you know where that house is, you cannot assume this. In my part of South Orange, there is virtually no clay in the soil and I've got the tests to prove it.

I would be careful - are you going to watch them remove the tank and observe their inspection and sampling? Even though you (and I for that matter) may have no clue what the process would be, you can make sure the details match - things like tank age (I assume there would be a label with serial number) to verify that its only 10 years old. You also become a person to them - if you are nice to the grunts at the bottom of the food chain, they can often tell you a lot that make help calm your concerns.

Given the tank removal horror stories, it might be worth spending the day here.

My experience was similar to kthnry's. They said no need for soil testing, nor a "no further action" letter from the DEP because there was no leak, nor corrosion.

The town has to look everything over. In my case that led to finding corrosion in old tank, minor leaks, geologist, soil samples, DEP certification letter, & 10K bill instead of $1700.

Like Jasmo said, the town signs off on it. You can't just pull a tank, fill in the hole and go about your day. They make an appt with the "pull company" and either give the green light or put a wonderful florescent pink sticker on your front door, announcing to all that you are CONTAMINATED. ...and then you pay $10k for clean dirt and remediation.

Why would anyone in this time purchase a house without having the soil tested?
If you were remediated for 10K you are quite lucky- the whole process takes a lot of time and is
nerve wracking- at least my funding reimbursement application was filed before that was pulled.

The whole process will be explained by calling the NJDEP- they will answer your questions with accuracy.

When we bought we insisted that soil samples be taken and tested. The sale was contingent on a pass.

The other side's attorney said it wasn't necessary and our realtor initially said don't bother. She came around to the idea after I explained my thinking. "You are all sitting here telling me not to worry, which means YOU shouldn't worry, because if there is nothing to worry about then you as the seller should be totally fine with an inexpensive test to get this cleared up. But you are making a big deal about it. Why?"

Test was performed and while no oil problem we did uncover some problems with the original paperwork stating that the job had been done properly. It ended up getting straightened out but ONLY because of the diligence of those who were originally involved in the removal. The truth was the seller had NO IDEA how the tank was handled and was just bull*****ting. It turned out there was no oil down there but the seller had NO way of knowing that.

So basically the seller was just a hopin' and a prayin' that everything would be ok, and if it wasn't, that they'd be long gone by the time someone realized it wasn't ok.

Hey, just forget about it! Just pretend it was never there! Until your neighbor gets some sort of seepage in their sump pit and they trace it back to your house.

Don't take any BS from anyone. What, they are going to go get another buyer? This ain't 2005.

Remember a decade and a half ago people had their tanks filled with foam and left in place. "You're being paranoid" as one poster said, huh? I think not. The regulations changed. Those people later ended up getting screwed and had to go have the foam filled tank pulled and blam, some found oil under it.

You sign that contract and let it go it becomes your problem. Don't let ANYONE tell you you are being paranoid. Get the test done.

No snark here, seriously. Are you saying that even if the tank is pulled, inspected by the town, and it is reported that there is no evidence of leak or corrosion, you think they should have the soil tested?

As long as a licensed, reputable well- known company is doing the pull and provides you with the paperwork, it will be fine. They are going to follow the requirements of the state. Tank pulled, no holes or corrosion- it is a clean pull and you get the paperwork to say so. If any contamination, they do the soil testing and based on that, no further action or remediation and then it has to be " approved" by the state. It is a mandated, specific set of procedures & guidelines so I wouldn't worry too much. I'd 1) get the name of the company doing to pull and make sure they are licensed and known locally 2) go to town hall and ask for the paperwork regarding oil tanks at that location to see what happened 10 yrs ago.

eire said:

No snark here, seriously. Are you saying that even if the tank is pulled, inspected by the town, and it is reported that there is no evidence of leak or corrosion, you think they should have the soil tested?

I personally would for two reasons.....one, I think the rules changed in regards to who writes the "you're all good" paperwork....I don't think its the town anymore, I think it's the contractor.

The second reason has to do with the way these laws have evolved. Again, 15 years ago you're cool abandoning it in place. Now all those folks who were "good" have to pull their tanks and what do you know, some are found to have contamination.

Even under the current regime if the remediation company does it and says, no oil on visual inspection, if there later is found to be contamination (think of the neighbor's sump pit example) you are still stuck.

The cost for the test is so small. The argument from the seller will not be based on that (we paid for our own) but on the premise that they don't want to go "looking for trouble". Well, that's the very reason to do it. They want to be legally all set when they sell, just as those who abandoned in place a few decades ago were all good. They're off in Florida somewhere and 3 owners later, Houston we have a problem.

Even if the risk is small, if the seller is resisting the test it is because they know the risk exists. I would not allow that risk to be transferred to me without doing my due dilly.

When we were negotiating to buy our house, - we insisted on removal of the underground tank - AND - testing of the soil. Get it done. If something shows up down the line, - you'll have regrets, and it will be your (VERY COSTLY) problem to deal with.

We must have so much lead pollution in our soil near the surface from years of sanding residue, why is there a need to worry so much about oil contamination that is 6 feet down, not running off into an underground well/reservoir or near the roots of edible crops? Could someone please explain?

lbahoora,

You might want to search "Big Changes in Oil Tank Remediation" on MOL.

I know nothing about oil tank removal or soil testing, but consider this...a home is a big purchase and your attorney works for you. If you want it written in, then do so.