sad

http://www.wdsu.com/article/5-confirmed-dead-in-fort-lauderdale-hollywood-airport-shooting/8570203

horrible. But not surprising.

We were supposed to fly into Ft. Lauderdale-Hollywood Intl. this morning. Our flight was cancelled.

So a person can go to the FBI and say the US government is forcing him to work for ISIS, be hospitalized for a while but still have a gun?

and you can carry said gun into an airport in your checked luggage and transport it to another state? C'mon- we can do better than this. Sorry, hunters, you can't convince me that your need to hunt outside your state is reason for anyone to plop a gun in their checked luggage. Enough already

I'm done with being outraged. I'll be long dead before this is fixed. RIP for all the dead bodies in this country, but I have no emotion for it.

that's fantastic to be emotionless about innocent death. Something to aspire to

I said I'm done with emotions due to the complete resistance of the U.S. to do something about guns. RIP to the victims. Plus, I doubt the victims' families want our emotions, they want gun control.

krugle said:

Plus, I doubt the victims' families want our emotions, they want gun control.

As one of them said, "I don't want your f***ing thoughts and prayers."

As one of them said, "I don't want your f***ing thoughts and prayers."

Agree, kthnry.

After Sandy Hook, I lost all hope.

wonderful. Losing all hope and emotion will really help us

krugle said:

As one of them said, "I don't want your f***ing thoughts and prayers."

Agree, kthnry.

After Sandy Hook, I lost all hope.

Me too. If the slaughtering of an entire class of 6 year olds doesn't cause change, I don't know what will. This is the price we pay to live in the USA. Sorry for feeling hopeless on this one, but I do.

I too feel hopeless. My niece and nephew were on a 1 PM flight from Ft. Lauderdale to Ohio yesterday. I am grateful and relieved they are safe. My niece's Facebook page is full of posts from people about how God watched over them and is always in control. Not a single comment about the need for sensible gun control. Not one. And if you were to bring up the subject they would tell you to keep your hands off their guns. I have two nephews who were present at the school shooting last spring in Trenton, OH. That I'm not able to persuade my own family of the need for change in gun laws, leaves me little hope.

Sweetsnuggles said:

I too feel hopeless. My niece and nephew were on a 1 PM flight from Ft. Lauderdale to Ohio yesterday. I am grateful and relieved they are safe. My niece's Facebook page is full of posts from people about how God watched over them and is always in control. Not a single comment about the need for sensible gun control. Not one. And if you were to bring up the subject they would tell you to keep your hands off their guns. I have two nephews who were present at the school shooting last spring in Trenton, OH. That I'm not able to persuade my own family of the need for change in gun laws, leaves me little hope.

As for watching over the five humans who were shot and killed, I guess God fell down on the job.

Seriously, these are the people we are supposed to "listen to" to "hear their perspective."

cubby said:

krugle said:

As one of them said, "I don't want your f***ing thoughts and prayers."

Agree, kthnry.

After Sandy Hook, I lost all hope.

Me too. If the slaughtering of an entire class of 6 year olds doesn't cause change, I don't know what will. This is the price we pay to live in the USA. Sorry for feeling hopeless on this one, but I do.

Yup. After that horror, and nothing more than proselytizing after it, tragedies like this become merely the latest in a long line of inevitables.

@shoshannah - My post in response to their comment about God being in control was very similar to your comment below. I can't believe all the hateful responses I received. My SIL actually posted a copy/paste of Billy Graham's daughter's vile comments after 9/11 on why God let the attack happen. They believe that evil happens because people have turned away from God. I don't know how to respond to such an ugly and offensive view. It's impossible to have a rational discussion with them without being accused of attacking their faith/God.

shoshannah said:

Sweetsnuggles said:

I too feel hopeless. My niece and nephew were on a 1 PM flight from Ft. Lauderdale to Ohio yesterday. I am grateful and relieved they are safe. My niece's Facebook page is full of posts from people about how God watched over them and is always in control. Not a single comment about the need for sensible gun control. Not one. And if you were to bring up the subject they would tell you to keep your hands off their guns. I have two nephews who were present at the school shooting last spring in Trenton, OH. That I'm not able to persuade my own family of the need for change in gun laws, leaves me little hope.

As for watching over the five humans who were shot and killed, I guess God fell down on the job.

Seriously, these are the people we are supposed to "listen to" to "hear their perspective."

Sweetsnuggles said:

@shoshannah - My post in response to their comment about God being in control was very similar to your comment below. I can't believe all the hateful responses I received. My SIL actually posted a copy/paste of Billy Graham's daughter's vile comments after 9/11 on why God let the attack happen. They believe that evil happens because people have turned away from God. I don't know how to respond to such an ugly and offensive view. It's impossible to have a rational discussion with them without being accused of attacking their faith/God.

shoshannah said:

Sweetsnuggles said:

I too feel hopeless. My niece and nephew were on a 1 PM flight from Ft. Lauderdale to Ohio yesterday. I am grateful and relieved they are safe. My niece's Facebook page is full of posts from people about how God watched over them and is always in control. Not a single comment about the need for sensible gun control. Not one. And if you were to bring up the subject they would tell you to keep your hands off their guns. I have two nephews who were present at the school shooting last spring in Trenton, OH. That I'm not able to persuade my own family of the need for change in gun laws, leaves me little hope.

As for watching over the five humans who were shot and killed, I guess God fell down on the job.

Seriously, these are the people we are supposed to "listen to" to "hear their perspective."

When you gut education, this is what happens. Do these people have jobs? I'd be curious to know what kind of jobs they hold.

I have zero patience for people who think this way. Zero. It is uneducated crap. Be religious if you so desire, but this is taking religion too far. Their minds have been hijacked.

Speaking of hopelessness, the level of people's education seems to be getting worse, or it just be my perception.

They are brainwashed.

Yes - they have jobs.

The SIL who posted the screed that I mentioned is a realtor in West Palm Beach. My brother is career military retired. In no particular order jobs held include: elementary teacher, dental hygienist, postal carrier, couple of county workers, owner of construction company, owner of successful concrete company, electrician. Lots of tradespeople. A few are financially well off, but majority are working class or lower middle income. The only "higher" education the children typically receive is from Bible Colleges, which just reinforces the crap that they have been told since birth. They all voted for Trump and not because they are suffering financially.

Sweetsnuggles said:

They are brainwashed.

Yes - they have jobs.

The SIL who posted the screed that I mentioned is a realtor in West Palm Beach. My brother is career military retired. In no particular order jobs held include: elementary teacher, dental hygienist, postal carrier, couple of county workers, owner of construction company, owner of successful concrete company, electrician. Lots of tradespeople. A few are financially well off, but majority are working class or lower middle income. The only "higher" education the children typically receive is from Bible Colleges, which just reinforces the crap that they have been told since birth. They all voted for Trump and not because they are suffering financially.

The one that scares me is elementary teacher.

krugle said:

Speaking of hopelessness, the level of people's education seems to be getting worse, or it just be my perception.

It's not just your perception. Critical thinking is under siege.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/03/magazine/how-elites-became-one-of-the-nastiest-epithets-in-american-politics.html

I'm sad because I think the unity of our country will crumble. City vs all others.

What I will find interesting is the disparity in Blue States paying more in fed taxes than they receive, and reaction and willingness to continue.

It is already city vs all others.

Trying to not sound like a conspiracist but recently, a friend and I were talking about the election and education in this country. She said something that made sense to me: are we as a nation purposely being undereducated in order to pull the wool over our eyes? Just not on MOL, but many articles I've read connect Trump's phenomenon, gun control, citizens rights, etc., link back to education.

The moment someone utters the words, "God was watching over us..." I tune out. What I hear is "God was just watching over us and nobody else because we were chosen over them to live."

kibbegirl said:

Trying to not sound like a conspiracist but recently, a friend and I were talking about the election and education in this country. She said something that made sense to me: are we as a nation purposely being undereducated in order to pull the wool over our eyes? Just not on MOL, but many articles I've read connect Trump's phenomenon, gun control, citizens rights, etc., link back to education.

The moment someone utters the words, "God was watching over us..." I tune out. What I hear is "God was just watching over us and nobody else because we were chosen over them to live."

Of course. Certain segments of the power-hungry do not want an educated population. You and I are not "undereducated," but a very large swath (or, as DJT would say, SWATCH) of the U.S. is under-educated. Sad.

It's very sad. An educated populace is necessary to have a healthy functional democracy.

Which makes a parody of the commercials I sometimes see telling us what a great job our educators are doing.

Sweetsnuggles said:

It's very sad. An educated populace is necessary to have a healthy functional democracy.

Clearly. A healthy, functioning democracy is precisely what the power-hungry nationalists don't want.

I don't know about the "under educated" argument. It's terribly hard to measure education/intelligence/knowledge/critical-thinking-ability across generations. Doing so inevitably is just another case of "the old days were better", which is pretty much never true.

It's also a simple explanation that we can easily grasp to help us make sense of what otherwise is a terribly puzzling thing - how do people make such horrible choices in what they believe? Without an explanation, it's sort of like staring into a void, which we naturally try to avoid. (heh - avoid a void) So we settle on an easy explanation. And incidentally, one which elevates us.

Anyway, I have no definitive answer - it's what has been wracking my brain for months now - but I think it's quite complicated. It has to do with thinking emotionally and manipulation by others and blurring of authority and tendencies towards authoritarianism and bad media practices and racism and classism and distorting notions of American exceptionalism and gun culture and a bunch of other stuff I haven't gotten a grip around yet. And some of those things are sometimes both cause and effect.

But it's a bad situation. The shrinking in the number of things that we can all agree on. It's fundamentally what is tearing this country apart. And, not coincidentally, what Bannon/Trump are exploiting and working to make worse and worse. Every lie issued by the Prez and his followers drives us further and further apart.

look at NAEP scores, our best measure of educational progress. We're doing pretty OK.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/02/no-public-schools-dont-suck

BG9 said:

Which makes a parody of the commercials I sometimes see telling us what a great job our educators are doing.