Replacing Thermostat ?

Stupid question alert!

Our thermostat needs to be replaced.  Should I hire an electrician/heating guy for this? Or is it a fairly simple DIY? Any advice is much appreciated.

Our current thermostat is a Lux 1500. The knobs are glitchy and the battery compartment is messed up (but it still works).

Easy job to do yourself, but make sure you know the specs of your system -- heating and cooling or heating only, rads vs forced air, and check whether it has a power line going to the thermostat as some newer (especially WIFI enabled ones) require hardwired power, which some of our older homes do not have.

You can find plenty good tutorials on youtube.

composerjohn said:

Stupid question alert!

Our thermostat needs to be replaced.  Should I hire an electrician/heating guy for this? Or is it a fairly simple DIY? Any advice is much appreciated.


Our current thermostat is a Lux 1500. The knobs are glitchy and the battery compartment is messed up (but it still works).

If you plan to put in one with remote WiFi access, you may want to use an electrician or heating guy (one who's hooked those up before). The devices can sometimes be a little tricky to connect. (You can buy the device yourself and just pay someone to connect it.)

+1 about understanding the settings. I had a handyman replace my thermostat, but the default setting was for forced-air heat and my house has steam. The thermostat kept cycling the system on and off and it never got hot enough to generate steam. It took me a couple days to realize the problem and figure out how to fix it.

Take your system specs and info on your current make/model to Palmer Plumbing or other similar place.  Take iPhoto of current one.  Ask them.  Get a 7 day programmable one.

Simple rep[lacement should be very easy.  As I recall just 2 color coded wires.  Even I was able to do ours.  

Get a NEST and connect it yourself.  Easy, peasy and the cost savings in your usage will make it pay for itself in no time flat.

what kind of heat ?  Smart thermostats will do little to nothing for steam heat efficiency, though you'll get the cool,factor.  If steam, get a cheap digital with a nice clear display from Home Depot or Lowes.  

peteglider said:

what kind of heat ?  Smart thermostats will do little to nothing for steam heat efficiency, though you'll get the cool,factor.  If steam, get a cheap digital with a nice clear display from Home Depot or Lowes.  

This. Seems cool to get a Nest, but they don't really do anything if you have steam heat.

I can't remember now who installed it, but we had exactly the same experience some years ago.

kthnry said:

+1 about understanding the settings. I had a handyman replace my thermostat, but the default setting was for forced-air heat and my house has steam. The thermostat kept cycling the system on and off and it never got hot enough to generate steam. It took me a couple days to realize the problem and figure out how to fix it.

jimmurphy said:

peteglider said:

what kind of heat ?  Smart thermostats will do little to nothing for steam heat efficiency, though you'll get the cool,factor.  If steam, get a cheap digital with a nice clear display from Home Depot or Lowes.  

This. Seems cool to get a Nest, but they don't really do anything if you have steam heat.

Nest has made a huge difference with our steam heating system - I can't recommend it enough.

Nest, Ecobee etc fly completely against the basic principles of steam heat.  Because the rads, even the piping, serve as heat sinks for distribution and because steam is essentially an on/ off system that is only working efficiently at the point when steam is being released - setbacks simply do not typically improve efficiency at all, may even hurt.  That said, if cycle times were not correct on the old thermostat, but correct on the smart thermostat, then things will work better.  But you can get that in a thermostat at 1/10 price of a Nest.

Still - my geek friends love them.  And the Ecobee with multiple remote temperature sensors can even things out (but so can a plumber who knows steam heat).

YMMV

I don't know from steam, but the radiant heat feature on the Nest seemed to work well for our hot water system- cutting the boiler 'early' when it knew residual heat would bring the temp up to the desired temp. We did see a drop in costs when we installed ours, but it could also be attributable to better programming overall.

I can say that before the Nest - my basement was getting the most of the heat due to the furnace cycles being too short.  Now the second floor is getting warmer then it used to.  So in my case it solved the issue.  But if there's thermostats that do what Nest does for 1/10 the price - please list them here.  All I know is that a change in thermostat solved my home heating issues.

we have a basic digital thermostat  for our steam heat.  It is programmable.   We set it to drop the temperature overnight.  It works well with steam because of the long setback.  Short duration changes are very inefficient.   These things are about 40 bucks.

NEST worked incredibly well with our 90 year old hot water radiators even before we replaced the boiler.  Spending money on "up to the minute" controls for heating and cooling is not foolish.  Unlike trendy gadgets meant for entertainment, a smart, internet-connected thermostat can save you money. 

We use the remote internet access to our thermometers (and now smoke detectors) on an almost daily basis.  It is sort of like a FitBit for the house.  The NEST actually encourages you to save energy (no heat when you are out of the house for instance) without sacrificing comfort.

Good point, the "Auto Away" can help when you don't remember to turn down the heat when you're away for a long weekend or whatever.

I've posted before that with steam boilers, setback (reducing the temperature of the the home for short periods) doesn't save any money. Masterplvmbr backed me up. (Edited to add that if you have a hot water, radiant or forced air system, none of these comments apply - the Nest is great for those because setback will work well in those systems!)

jamie said:

I can say that before the Nest - my basement was getting the most of the heat due to the furnace cycles being too short.  Now the second floor is getting warmer then it used to.  So in my case it solved the issue.  But if there's thermostats that do what Nest does for 1/10 the price - please list them here.  All I know is that a change in thermostat solved my home heating issues.

It is likely that the heat anticipator setting on your previous thermostat was not properly set.

http://inspectapedia.com/heat/Heat_Anticipator_Adustment.php

The Honeywell Round, available at Lowes for $26.98 would have solved your short-cycling problems.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_230878-74493-YCT87K1003/U_0__?k_clickID=ccaca5b2-4680-47f5-9126-18baa84fe206&store_code=1937&productId=999956646&selectedLocalStoreBeanArray=%5Bcom.lowes.commerce.storelocator.beans.LocatorStoreBean%403dca3dca%5D&storeNumber=1937&kpid=999956646&cm_mmc=SCE_PLA-_-RoughPlumbingElectrical-_-Thermostats-_-999956646%3AHoneywell&CAWELAID=&CAWELAID=320011480006559482

Wait until a relatively warm day to change it so you aren't scrambling if there are any glitches.

Jimmurphy is absolutely right.  Don't confuse hot water with steam.  Different animals entirely.

Have a pencil (or something like it near by) when you disconnect your old thermostat and wrap the wires around the pencil so the wires don't fall back into the wall.  And as noted, make sure the thermostat has a steam setting.  If digital, make sure it has back lighting, it just makes life easier for those older eyes.

Thanks everyone! This is incredibly helpful. I'll do some research.

FYI, I have steam heat. 

@composerjohn, this is the one I have and works well with steam heat. it does not require a c-line (power), which many old homes do not have in place, but does allow use of c-line if you do have one, in which case you wont need to use batteries. I dont have a c-line so I use it with batteries and replaced batteries once since I moved here in 2013 -- http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-TH4110D1007-Programmable-Thermostat/dp/B001RZ678Q/ref=cm_cr_dp_asin_lnk

Great thanks! Our current thermostat uses batteries, so this looks like a good replacement.

For what it's worth, we got a Nest when we moved here last year. We have steam heat only with a two wire installation (no c wire) and we didn't have any problems with installation. Haven't had any problems with operation since.

We do a small setback adjustment for auto-away. There's too much testing needed to really know if we're saving (or wasting) money as a result.  Our heating bills do seem somewhat reasonable. I did do a bit or research before purchasing it and saw the arguments about using setbacks with steam heat, but as they're primarily limited to small-business professionals posting in forums it's hard to gauge versus what Google or the government want you to believe.

We did think about a few other thermostat possibilities, and were most interested in the Ecobee. In the end the Nest might have won based mostly on looks. It's the best looking thermostat out there and as they're usually in a prominent place in ones' home it makes sense to take looks into account.

Im intrigued by the idea of remote temp sensors on the Ecobee, which is a weakness on the part of the Nest, IMO.

marcsiry said:

Im intrigued by the idea of remote temp sensors on the Ecobee, which is a weakness on the part of the Nest, IMO.

I thought hard about it for that reason. Eventually went with the Nest because:

1) It seemed more popular, is owned by a really big company in Google. (As a former Commodore Amiga and Atari Jaguar owner, I've learned that holding out for the technically superior less-popular product isn't always a good plan.)

2) It looks better. The Ecobee main unit looks just a little weird, but satellite things look cheap and clunky.

You can add somewhat similar functionality to the Nest system with Wally - http://www.wallyhome.com/ although it does entail turning off the Nest's auto-scheduling. Actually looking at the website, they may not be available anymore. The link takes you to a defunct item at Amazon.com. I recall them being a little more pricey than one would want. They were originally a flood sensor that was also able to take temperature readings that later was able to integrate with the Nest.

I was also not 100% sure that setting the temp based off of the bedroom (which in our house would make the lower level hotter than we wanted) would make sense both comfort and efficiency-wise. We had a small electric space heater that we use in the 'cold' bedroom and it seems to be enough for now. Trying to balance the steam is a possibility, but from what I've read it can be a lot of work to get right. For the time being the electric assist will do.

Appearance is personal, but to me the display on the Ecobee is far cleaner and is much more readable than Nest.  Note that Ecobee 3 is home kit compatible.  

Agree with you on the temperature sensors -- of course the specific room/area will be more comfortable, but not the rest -- its not like zoning the heat.  But better than being too hot/cold!

I was ready to get the Ecobee (because of the remote sensors), but first added over 120' of insulation to the steam risers and return pipes (pretty sure in previous sale of this house, asbestos insulation was removed.. never re insulated).  That made a night and day difference -- suddenly all floors within 2 degrees of eachother (before the 1st floor was 70, 2nd & 3rd 62 degrees).  

Just reinforced that the basics -- insulating pipes, weatherstripping all doors, fixing air leaks in basement, etc. will have far more impact than a snazzy smart thermostat.  (though I surely would like to be able to open the app on my phone and control the heat!! )

/p

We did have the benefit of having the world's ugliest thermostat, which was also installed in the most obnoxious way possible - and not even really in the right room. So since the wires were being moved anyway it didn't make sense to fully install the ugly thermostat in the new location. I see people refer to 'the cost', but compared to everything else involved in home ownership $250 for a long-term purchase seems free.  Cheapest thermostat that is probably anything worth buying at all is $100, a similar thermostat from a less-sexy brand is still +$200. 

peteglider said:

Appearance is personal, but to me the display on the Ecobee is far cleaner and is much more readable than Nest.  Note that Ecobee 3 is home kit compatible.  

Agree with you on the temperature sensors -- of course the specific room/area will be more comfortable, but not the rest -- its not like zoning the heat.  But better than being too hot/cold!

I was ready to get the Ecobee (because of the remote sensors), but first added over 120' of insulation to the steam risers and return pipes (pretty sure in previous sale of this house, asbestos insulation was removed.. never re insulated).  That made a night and day difference -- suddenly all floors within 2 degrees of eachother (before the 1st floor was 70, 2nd & 3rd 62 degrees).  

Just reinforced that the basics -- insulating pipes, weatherstripping all doors, fixing air leaks in basement, etc. will have far more impact than a snazzy smart thermostat.  (though I surely would like to be able to open the app on my phone and control the heat!! )

/p

Composer John,

Amazon has a Lux TX 1500 U stat for about $30.  Wiring should approx what you already have.  Some stats have 4 wires others 2 wires.  Can you remove your current stat from mount w/o disconnecting it?  Look at what's in rear- you could get one at HD and install tonight... it's that easy- usually.

http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/157044/iso-replacement-for-nest-thermostat#latest