Protest at synagogue

This is unacceptable. Screaming obscenities at people with kids going to a house of worship!! Who are these people? Where did they come from? It’s hard to believe that they are fellow citizens of south orange or maplewood. After decades of being in this community, it’s appalling to realize that your very neighbors can be so vile.

https://patch.com/new-jersey/southorange/graffiti-left-south-orange-synagogue-during-protest-sparks-outcry


Jaytee said:

This is unacceptable. Screaming obscenities at people with kids going to a house of worship!! Who are these people? Where did they come from? It’s hard to believe that they are fellow citizens of south orange or maplewood. After decades of being in this community, it’s appalling to realize that your very neighbors can be so vile.

https://patch.com/new-jersey/southorange/graffiti-left-south-orange-synagogue-during-protest-sparks-outcry

Thank you for posting this. I had not heard about it but I just shared it on my FB page. Ironically it followed my post about Holocaust Remembrance Day.



I had a post to post, but then I read the end of the patch piece and I'll have to re-think it.


The yelling of derogatory comments outside the synagogue while children were in religious school was bad enough.  Reports of harassment, vandalism of synagogue property, and tossing of red liquid on a passing car and a passerby is intolerable.  Many thanks to the elected officials of both towns and clergy from churches in both towns for condemning this demonstration.  We need to come together as a community in support of one another not participate in or otherwise support such divisive behavior. 


Maybe holding political events in a house of worship isn't a good idea?

Personally, I wouldn't protest an event that was held at a Synagogue but, celebrating individuals who are personally involved in an active genocide in a religious venue ought to be deeply distasteful for any religious person.

Seems like a case of bad actions on both sides.


Again, no genocide.  More importantly, even if you were to wrongly believe what you claim, these two soldiers were search and rescue medics who have operated locally (including in Gaza saving Palestinian lives) and internationally.  Even more importantly, the protesters statements didn't even reference the medics; they attacked parents picking up children from Hebrew School, calling them murderers, etc. 


GoSlugs said:

Maybe holding political events in a house of worship isn't a good idea?

Personally, I wouldn't protest an event that was held at a Synagogue but, celebrating individuals who are personally involved in an active genocide in a religious venue ought to be deeply distasteful for any religious person.

Seems like a case of bad actions on both sides.

do you realize that the Jews don’t have that many safe places to hold political events? Where do you suggest they have these events? The public library? If one is not safe in a place of worship, then you’re not safe anywhere. Why do you think the Catholic Churches are keeping safe? Your obvious hatred for the Israelis is your own personal problem…. Not the Jewish people. 
sick !!


Steve said:

Again, no genocide.  

You will forgive me if I don't take your word for that.


Jaytee said:

do you realize that the Jews don’t have that many safe places to hold political events? Where do you suggest they have these events? The public library? If one is not safe in a place of worship, then you’re not safe anywhere. Why do you think the Catholic Churches are keeping safe? Your obvious hatred for the Israelis is your own personal problem…. Not the Jewish people. 
sick !!

There is no excuse for identity based attacks on any religious or ethnic group.

That said, I would suggest that no one, regardless of their race or creed, should hold events in support of genocide. 

I understand that the supporters of genocide will vilify me for that sentiment but, there it is, straight up simple and plain.


Jaytee said:

Your obvious hatred for the Israelis is your own personal problem

Just as I can hate Hamas without hating Palestinians, I can hate Netanyahu's regime without hating Israelis (many of whom are appalled by the terrible things that have been done in their name).


Well, it seems that if Israel is truly conducting a genocide in the Gaza Strip, it is doing a really bad job of it.  As for hating the Netanyahu regime, get in line behind me.  Also, TFG appeared to actually call for a genocide in the Gaza Strip the other day.  Not voting for Harris is really working out well for a lot of people, ain't it?


GoSlugs said:

There is no excuse for identity based attacks on any religious or ethnic group.

That said, I would suggest that no one, regardless of their race or creed, should hold events in support of genocide. 

I understand that the supporters of genocide will vilify me for that sentiment but, there it is, straight up simple and plain.

The meeting on Sunday at Oheb Shalom was not about genocide.  It was about honoring search and rescue medics who have been deployed world wide to help in situations where their life-saving skills are needed.  There is nothing political about this either unless you consider being Jewish in 2025 to be a political statement to be protested.  


GoSlugs said:

Steve said:

Again, no genocide.  

You will forgive me if I don't take your word for that.

arguing about whether it is a genocide just obscures the fact that tens and tens of thousands of innocent civilians have been unjustifiably killed by a bloodthirsty monster who was unfortunately hugely enabled by US aid.

whether it legally qualifies as genocide is totally besides the point.

perhaps the Jewish community could be a bit more sensitive to what Palestinians and their supporters are feeling due to that massive loss of life.


drummerboy said:

GoSlugs said:

Steve said:

Again, no genocide.  

You will forgive me if I don't take your word for that.

arguing about whether it is a genocide just obscures the fact that tens and tens of thousands of innocent civilians have been unjustifiably killed by a bloodthirsty monster who was unfortunately hugely enabled by US aid.

whether it legally qualifies as genocide is totally besides the point.

perhaps the Jewish community could be a bit more sensitive to what Palestinians and their supporters are feeling due to that massive loss of life.

There's no singular "Jewish community".  Many are opposed to Bibi.  I am.  Being an American Jew does not give you a hotline to the Israeli government. As an American, Jew or not, I don't have an obligation to be any more sensitive to Israeli policy than any other American.  And you have no right to assault a place because you are unhappy about what people are talking about inside.  Walk up and down the sidewalk with signs if you want to. You don't get to take the law into your hands and get physical.


GoSlugs said:

Maybe holding political events in a house of worship isn't a good idea?

Personally, I wouldn't protest an event that was held at a Synagogue but, celebrating individuals who are personally involved in an active genocide in a religious venue ought to be deeply distasteful for any religious person.

Seems like a case of bad actions on both sides.

The issue I have with your statement is that you described this event as " celebrating individuals who are personally involved in an active genocide in a religious venue ought to be deeply distasteful for any religious person." This synagogue had as its guests two men who did search and rescue.

The Rabbi is, from her public statements, about peace and my dear friend is a member of this synagogue. I told her if there is any gathering addressing this issue, I would participate.

Although no one would label me "a religious person" what I find deeply distasteful is the manner that this protest was conducted. Why not contact the Rabbi and ask about the nature of the appearance? It seems as if it was known in advance, so being informed is an important component of making a public protest. I say that as someone who has been a part, even led, many public demonstrations.

In my opinion, a person loses their moral high ground when they mistakenly target the wrong group.


the guests were members of the IDF, yes?

the IDF has destroyed Gaza, yes?

did these two people personally engage in said destruction? probably not.

but is it unfair to protest against them anyway, as they represent and are part of the support structure of the destroyers? I don't think so.

should the synagogue even be honoring/promoting members of the IDF at all at this time? perhaps these two can be considered somewhat honorable, but if you ask me no synagogue should be parading around anyone from the IDF. Certainly not at this time.

and who did they search and rescue for? members of the IDF? or victims of the IDF's destruction? (I don't know the answer to this.) if it was victims, the irony would be breathtaking.



joan_crystal said:

The meeting on Sunday at Oheb Shalom was not about genocide.  It was about honoring search and rescue medics who have been deployed world wide to help in situations where their life-saving skills are needed.  There is nothing political about this either unless you consider being Jewish in 2025 to be a political statement to be protested.  

There seems to be some confusion about these soldiers.  The two soldiers who spoke at Oheb Shalom were members of IDF Unit 669, an elite special forces unit of the Israeli air force.  These soldiers frequently participate in combat and do so armed with all the array of weapons carried by other members of the special forces. They also serve as forward observers, calling in the very artillery and airstrikes that have killed so many women and children in Gaza. While it is true that they also participate in search and rescue, that is but one component of their role in the IDF.

There's nothing inherently political about being Jewish.  Serving in an elite special forces unit participating both in genocide and the material support of genocide is inherently political.


For anyone who want to learn more:

Unit 669


Morganna said:

In my opinion, a person loses their moral high ground when they mistakenly target the wrong group.

You might want to tell that to the IDF forces that have spent the last 15 months slaughtering women and children.  These soldiers, Unit 669 included, may have strayed from that moral high ground you so treasure.


GoSlugs said:

For anyone who want to learn more:

Unit 669

yeah, so they rescue IDF soldiers.

trying to say that they're somehow not a part of Gaza's destruction is disingenuous to say the least.

I don't have a problem with the protest, and the synagogue is, of course, within its rights to complain about it. But as is so frequently the case with these protests, the complainers pretty much lie about the intentions of the protestors, and never, ever acknowledge the suffering of the people of Gaza. (not that I've seen anyway)

The target of the protests have no moral high ground.

And while I don't like playing scorekeeper for tragedies, the fact remains that what Gaza has suffered dwarfs by an order of magnitude what Israel has suffered.


At this point I think the thread should be transferred to the Politics forums.


GoSlugs said:

You might want to tell that to the IDF forces that have spent the last 15 months slaughtering women and children.  These soldiers, Unit 669 included, may have strayed from that moral high ground you so treasure.

Out of curiosity, what in your view directly led to the IDF actions in Gaza?  Were they just out for kicks or did some act by a third party precipitate it?  Have you once called out Kfir's captors or are Israeli infants fair game to be directly targeted for capture, torture, and killing?


Jasmo said:

At this point I think the thread should be transferred to the Politics forums.

That's where it should have been in the first place.


Steve said:

Out of curiosity, what in your view directly led to the IDF actions in Gaza?  

What caused the IDF to launch a campaign of war crimes, terror and genocide?  I have no idea.  It certainly wasn't military strategy as American military officials repeatedly waned their counterparts in the IDF that this sort of approach would only act as a massive recruiting tool for Hamas and, in the long term, completely undermine their stated goal of eliminating Hamas as a political and military force. 

Considering the resurgence of Hamas that we have seen in recent days, we can probably draw our own conclusions as to which side was correct in that debate.


Steve said:

GoSlugs said:

You might want to tell that to the IDF forces that have spent the last 15 months slaughtering women and children.  These soldiers, Unit 669 included, may have strayed from that moral high ground you so treasure.

Out of curiosity, what in your view directly led to the IDF actions in Gaza?  Were they just out for kicks or did some act by a third party precipitate it?  Have you once called out Kfir's captors or are Israeli infants fair game to be directly targeted for capture, torture, and killing?

are you kidding here?

are you saying that what Israel has done to Gaza is somehow a justified response? because it certainly appears that you are.

are you aware of some of the revised estimates of Gaza casualties produced by The Lancet?


You really have no idea what prompted this?   Per capita, the slaughter attack that prompted this, had it happened in the U.S., would have killed 41,000 people.  But you have no idea.

I wince ever time I see civilian deaths but have no issue with Israel's "enough is enough" approach to both Hamas and Hezbollah.  Two fanatical anti-modern organizations dedicated to Israel's destruction and frankly indifferent to the welfare of their respective populations.  And BTW the destruction of Israel has been a central stance of Hamas since its inception long before it took over Gaza.  It's not about Israel's lack of niceness to Gaza over the years.


bub said:

You really have no idea what prompted this?   Per capita, the slaughter attack that prompted this, had it happened in the U.S., would have killed 41,000 people.  But you have no idea.

I wince ever time I see civilian deaths but have no issue with Israel's "enough is enough" approach to both Hamas and Hezbollah.  Two fanatical anti-modern organizations dedicated to Israel's destruction and frankly indifferent to the welfare of their respective populations.  And BTW the destruction of Israel has been a central stance of Hamas since its inception long before it took over Gaza.  It's not about Israel's lack of niceness to Gaza over the years.

really? per capita comparisons?

AYFKM? do you realize what a stretch that is, and all to justify an obviously unjustifiable response?

how people say that with a straight face is beyond me.

but at least you wince. bet you never winced so much in your life.


and what was the per capita casualties in Gaza?

ETA: by my rough-ish calculations, the number of Gaza casualties per capita, had it happened in the U.S., is over 8 million.

Though someone should check my math. I'm new to this grisly calculation.


I am sure all of us mourn the death of those who have died in Gaza as a direct result of this war. Can we also agree to mourn the deaths of those who died in Israel on October 7th and pray for the release of the hostages who who were taken by Hamas?

We are a diverse community. Members of our community have roots in the Middle East. Some of us have family and friends in Israel, others have family and friends in Gaza. It is not unreasonable to assume that some of us have very personal reasons for feeling strongly when a gathering, regardless of location, touches on this war, whether directly or tangentially.

Can we agree that disagreement here in Maplewood and South Orange needs to take place peacefully and that vandalism, harassment, and speech perceived as expressions of hate should be objected to by all, regardless of who is perpetrating it? That seems to be the focus of the OP to this thread.


Not justifying any particular attack, especially on civilians.  I interpreted the above comment as expressing complete bewilderment  about how this all started.  And yes per capita comparison.  The deaths of 1200 in a tiny county with a population of less than 10,000,000 is much more traumatic and enraging than the same number of deaths in a big country of 335,000000.  


you say you're not justifying killing civilians, but then you go on to justify it anyway.

OK


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