Please sign: White House petition to settle Syrian refugees in the U.S.

Here's the link to the official White house petition asking the federal government to settle Syrian refugees in the U.S.

http://wh.gov/iR9hZ

Please sign and promote on social media if so inclined.

M

Done!

Caaaaaan't wait to hear Trump's solution......

Also done. Thank you for posting the link!

Done! Forwarded it on FB. Thanks for starting the thread.

So they create a despotic and fascist state, it begins to fail due to other citizens of that state deciding that while they want some form of theocracy, they want a new type of dictator, war breaks out, they flee the war and want to bring their broken way of life to the US? Fantastic! Shouldn't they be re-settled within the Middle East?

Done.

BubbaTerp said:
So they create a despotic and fascist state, it begins to fail due to other citizens of that state deciding that while they want some form of theocracy, they want a new type of dictator, war breaks out, they flee the war and want to bring their broken way of life to the US? Fantastic! Shouldn't they be re-settled within the Middle East?

Wha?

Is it permissible to question the "why" the "who" and the "why not more culturally appropriate places" questions?

Signed. Thanks for posting.

Drought is a major contributing factor to the unrest in Syria. Here's a link to an article from 2013:

http://www.npr.org/2013/09/08/220438728/how-could-a-drought-spark-a-civil-war

I tried to embed the video, but can not get the link to work properly.

ETA additional link:

http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/06/drought-helped-spark-syrias-civil-war-is-it-the-first-of-many-climate-wars-to-come/

BubbaTerp said:
So they create a despotic and fascist state, it begins to fail due to other citizens of that state deciding that while they want some form of theocracy, they want a new type of dictator, war breaks out, they flee the war and want to bring their broken way of life to the US? Fantastic! Shouldn't they be re-settled within the Middle East?

No.

How come? Are there not Middle Eastern states with similar cultural mores that would be more appropriate? If not. Why not?

LOST said:

BubbaTerp said:
So they create a despotic and fascist state, it begins to fail due to other citizens of that state deciding that while they want some form of theocracy, they want a new type of dictator, war breaks out, they flee the war and want to bring their broken way of life to the US? Fantastic! Shouldn't they be re-settled within the Middle East?

No.

BubbaTerp said:
How come? Are there not Middle Eastern states with similar cultural mores that would be more appropriate? If not. Why not?

LOST said:

BubbaTerp said:
So they create a despotic and fascist state, it begins to fail due to other citizens of that state deciding that while they want some form of theocracy, they want a new type of dictator, war breaks out, they flee the war and want to bring their broken way of life to the US? Fantastic! Shouldn't they be re-settled within the Middle East?

No.

Syrian refugees now make up 20% of Lebanon's population.

Sweetsnuggles said:
Drought is a major contributing factor to the unrest in Syria. Here's a link to an article from 2013:
http://www.npr.org/2013/09/08/220438728/how-could-a-drought-spark-a-civil-war
I tried to embed the video, but can not get the link to work properly.
ETA additional link:
http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/06/drought-helped-spark-syrias-civil-war-is-it-the-first-of-many-climate-wars-to-come/

Eventually, all doors will be closed to refugees as the numbers increase due to climate change and climate change related events.

So basically citizens of nations are no longer accountable for the actions of their native states?

BubbaTerp said:
So basically citizens of nations are no longer accountable for the actions of their native states?

If each of us were held accountable for the actions of our government (both sides of the aisle), we'd all be in jail.

We're speaking in aggregate. We're not talking about one off immigration here and there on a case by case basis (VERY different IMHO), we're speaking about mass immigration by a population across the world into a place where they will be culturally apart and have not shown a willingness (again, in aggregate) to assimilate.

I think this is an Arab League problem first and Europe's second since they have been unable to keep the migrants/refugees out. I think if the US decided to sit out dealing with Assad, then we should sit this out too.

marylago said:

BubbaTerp said:
So basically citizens of nations are no longer accountable for the actions of their native states?

If each of us were held accountable for the actions of our government (both sides of the aisle), we'd all be in jail.

BubbaTerp said:
We're speaking in aggregate. We're not talking about one off immigration here and there on a case by case basis (VERY different IMHO), we're speaking about mass immigration by a population across the world into a place where they will be culturally apart and have not shown a willingness (again, in aggregate) to assimilate.
I think this is an Arab League problem first and Europe's second since they have been unable to keep the migrants/refugees out. I think if the US decided to sit out dealing with Assad, then we should sit this out too.

marylago said:

BubbaTerp said:
So basically citizens of nations are no longer accountable for the actions of their native states?

If each of us were held accountable for the actions of our government (both sides of the aisle), we'd all be in jail.

We're talking about people fleeing for their lives. You want to do a study to see what is the most appropriate culture for these people. Obviously, this is cover for "Well don't let them in here!"

I'm glad when my ancestors left for this country, under less than ideal circumstances but still not as dire as the Syrians, they were allowed in.

TylerDurden said:

We're talking about people fleeing for their lives. You want to do a study to see what is the most appropriate culture for these people. Obviously, this is cover for "Well don't let them in here!"

I'm glad when my ancestors left for this country, under less than ideal circumstances but still not as dire as the Syrians, they were allowed in.

Missing the point completely, but ok.

TylerDurden said:

BubbaTerp said:
We're speaking in aggregate. We're not talking about one off immigration here and there on a case by case basis (VERY different IMHO), we're speaking about mass immigration by a population across the world into a place where they will be culturally apart and have not shown a willingness (again, in aggregate) to assimilate.
I think this is an Arab League problem first and Europe's second since they have been unable to keep the migrants/refugees out. I think if the US decided to sit out dealing with Assad, then we should sit this out too.

marylago said:

BubbaTerp said:
So basically citizens of nations are no longer accountable for the actions of their native states?

If each of us were held accountable for the actions of our government (both sides of the aisle), we'd all be in jail.

We're talking about people fleeing for their lives. You want to do a study to see what is the most appropriate culture for these people. Obviously, this is cover for "Well don't let them in here!"
I'm glad when my ancestors left for this country, under less than ideal circumstances but still not as dire as the Syrians, they were allowed in.

I really don't think I am.

From what I've read, you feel that the US should take in a huge number of refugees from the various Middle Eastern conflict and re-settle them permanently within the US. This would be the humanitarian thing to do and the country would be better for it both morally and for adding these individuals to the larger group dynamic. In an ideal world, that would be lovely. Unfortunately we live in the real world.

1. These are not people generally interested in liberal, Western ideals.

2. They are members of a tribal based ethnic group that inhabits a large % of the Earth and includes some of the wealthiest states on the Earth.

3. Their religion dictates a complete way of life. This lifestyle is at odds with more secular Western cultures and is more similarly aligned with the above wealthy Middle Eastern states.

4. Many of the refugees are/were members of militant groups involved in national conflicts. Weeding through who is who would make post WW2 Nazi hunting seem tame.

5. The US does not need the problems that non-assimilating immigrants bring. See Germany, France, UK.

TylerDurden said:
I really don't think I am.

BubbaTerp said:
From what I've read, you feel that the US should take in a huge number of refugees from the various Middle Eastern conflict and re-settle them permanently within the US. This would be the humanitarian thing to do and the country would be better for it both morally and for adding these individuals to the larger group dynamic. In an ideal world, that would be lovely. Unfortunately we live in the real world.
1. These are not people generally interested in liberal, Western ideals.
2. They are members of a tribal based ethnic group that inhabits a large % of the Earth and includes some of the wealthiest states on the Earth.
3. Their religion dictates a complete way of life. This lifestyle is at odds with more secular Western cultures and is more similarly aligned with the above wealthy Middle Eastern states.
4. Many of the refugees are/were members of militant groups involved in national conflicts. Weeding through who is who would make post WW2 Nazi hunting seem tame.
5. The US does not need the problems that non-assimilating immigrants bring. See Germany, France, UK.

TylerDurden said:
I really don't think I am.

You are painting with a broad brush. I would suggest that many of them are open to"liberal, Western ideals", and their children would be more so. There are immigrants in America from Communist dominated Eastern Europe who were used to authoritarianism. There are Asian immigrants from vry different cultures who assimilated.

Not sure what you mean by "tribes". They are divided into ethnic groups.

As to religion some are Muslim, both Sunni and Shia and some are Christian. Like members of any religion I am sure some are more religious and some less religious. In any event we already have Muslims in America from a number of countries. Some of them are very Religious and some of them attend Mosque only on major holidays, like many Jews and Christians.

I do not understand the reference to WW2

The problem with assimilation in Germany or France is attributable to an extent to the populations of those countries being homogeneous. That is not true of the US. We have assimilated immigrants from Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Africa, South Asia, East Asia. I was in the hospital recently. Of all the Doctors I saw no two were from the same country and the only one who seemed to have been born in the USA had a long unpronounceable Armenian name.

I'm not knocking the foundation of your point of view because it comes from a hopeful, trusting place. Unfortunately, the below is not wholly accurate.

1. The Arab world is indeed tribal.

2. Most of the Arab/Turkish immigrants to the Western World over the last two decades have had a ton of trouble assimilating. I'm speaking in aggregate. It's not 0%, so you'll certainly see assimilated Americans from the Arab/Turkish world, but the strong majority wont be. I don't agree that Europe is seeing this issue due to the homogeneity of those countries. Other immigrant groups have successfully assimilated at the group level.

3. Almost all of the refugees are Muslim.

4. WW2 reference speaks to the need to seriously vet any refugees for militancy/terrorism/religious fanaticism. In actuality, this would be harder to do at scale than when the US Army hunted Germany for Nazis after the fall of the Reich, and think of how many Nazis made it into the US.

LOST said:

BubbaTerp said:
From what I've read, you feel that the US should take in a huge number of refugees from the various Middle Eastern conflict and re-settle them permanently within the US. This would be the humanitarian thing to do and the country would be better for it both morally and for adding these individuals to the larger group dynamic. In an ideal world, that would be lovely. Unfortunately we live in the real world.
1. These are not people generally interested in liberal, Western ideals.
2. They are members of a tribal based ethnic group that inhabits a large % of the Earth and includes some of the wealthiest states on the Earth.
3. Their religion dictates a complete way of life. This lifestyle is at odds with more secular Western cultures and is more similarly aligned with the above wealthy Middle Eastern states.
4. Many of the refugees are/were members of militant groups involved in national conflicts. Weeding through who is who would make post WW2 Nazi hunting seem tame.
5. The US does not need the problems that non-assimilating immigrants bring. See Germany, France, UK.

TylerDurden said:
I really don't think I am.

You are painting with a broad brush. I would suggest that many of them are open to"liberal, Western ideals", and their children would be more so. There are immigrants in America from Communist dominated Eastern Europe who were used to authoritarianism. There are Asian immigrants from vry different cultures who assimilated.
Not sure what you mean by "tribes". They are divided into ethnic groups.
As to religion some are Muslim, both Sunni and Shia and some are Christian. Like members of any religion I am sure some are more religious and some less religious. In any event we already have Muslims in America from a number of countries. Some of them are very Religious and some of them attend Mosque only on major holidays, like many Jews and Christians.
I do not understand the reference to WW2
The problem with assimilation in Germany or France is attributable to an extent to the populations of those countries being homogeneous. That is not true of the US. We have assimilated immigrants from Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Africa, South Asia, East Asia. I was in the hospital recently. Of all the Doctors I saw no two were from the same country and the only one who seemed to have been born in the USA had a long unpronounceable Armenian name.

BubbaTerp said:
From what I've read, you feel that the US should take in a huge number of refugees from the various Middle Eastern conflict and re-settle them permanently within the US. This would be the humanitarian thing to do and the country would be better for it both morally and for adding these individuals to the larger group dynamic. In an ideal world, that would be lovely. Unfortunately we live in the real world.
1. These are not people generally interested in liberal, Western ideals.
2. They are members of a tribal based ethnic group that inhabits a large % of the Earth and includes some of the wealthiest states on the Earth.
3. Their religion dictates a complete way of life. This lifestyle is at odds with more secular Western cultures and is more similarly aligned with the above wealthy Middle Eastern states.
4. Many of the refugees are/were members of militant groups involved in national conflicts. Weeding through who is who would make post WW2 Nazi hunting seem tame.
5. The US does not need the problems that non-assimilating immigrants bring. See Germany, France, UK.

TylerDurden said:
I really don't think I am.

Take it to the other thread, please, Bubba.

What other thread? And how is this not appropriate for a thread speaking about signing a petition demanding we settle hundreds of thousands of Syrians (and other nationalities) in the US?

mbaldwin said:

BubbaTerp said:
From what I've read, you feel that the US should take in a huge number of refugees from the various Middle Eastern conflict and re-settle them permanently within the US. This would be the humanitarian thing to do and the country would be better for it both morally and for adding these individuals to the larger group dynamic. In an ideal world, that would be lovely. Unfortunately we live in the real world.
1. These are not people generally interested in liberal, Western ideals.
2. They are members of a tribal based ethnic group that inhabits a large % of the Earth and includes some of the wealthiest states on the Earth.
3. Their religion dictates a complete way of life. This lifestyle is at odds with more secular Western cultures and is more similarly aligned with the above wealthy Middle Eastern states.
4. Many of the refugees are/were members of militant groups involved in national conflicts. Weeding through who is who would make post WW2 Nazi hunting seem tame.
5. The US does not need the problems that non-assimilating immigrants bring. See Germany, France, UK.

TylerDurden said:
I really don't think I am.

Take it to the other thread, please, Bubba.

Doesn't matter what thread, just wants you off this one because you won't agree that signing the petition is a wonderful thing. By the way I agree with you. And to touch base on Lost I don't think these refugees are doctors etc. that are fleeing. Keep footing the bill to support all the immigrants ( housing and medical) & we'll be broke as a nation pretty soon.

BubbaTerp said:
What other thread? And how is this not appropriate for a thread speaking about signing a petition demanding we settle hundreds of thousands of Syrians (and other nationalities) in the US?

mbaldwin said:

BubbaTerp said:
From what I've read, you feel that the US should take in a huge number of refugees from the various Middle Eastern conflict and re-settle them permanently within the US. This would be the humanitarian thing to do and the country would be better for it both morally and for adding these individuals to the larger group dynamic. In an ideal world, that would be lovely. Unfortunately we live in the real world.
1. These are not people generally interested in liberal, Western ideals.
2. They are members of a tribal based ethnic group that inhabits a large % of the Earth and includes some of the wealthiest states on the Earth.
3. Their religion dictates a complete way of life. This lifestyle is at odds with more secular Western cultures and is more similarly aligned with the above wealthy Middle Eastern states.
4. Many of the refugees are/were members of militant groups involved in national conflicts. Weeding through who is who would make post WW2 Nazi hunting seem tame.
5. The US does not need the problems that non-assimilating immigrants bring. See Germany, France, UK.

TylerDurden said:
I really don't think I am.

Take it to the other thread, please, Bubba.

The other thread is called "International Migrant Influx" and you're already posting on it, Bubba. I purposely place this thread in the "Please Help" section to avoid the political commentary. If you want to sign the petition, fine. If you don't want to sign, fine, too.

All peoples were tribal at some point in history. And while as a society we will sure pay a financial cost to grant asylum, it is nothing compared to what we pay for the warfare state.

If it does indeed bankrupt us, at least we won't be morally bankrupt.