Neighborhood safety? archived

I'm not being crass or simple when I say it depends on where you're coming from. If you're coming from NYC, it's incredibly safe by comparison. If you're coming from rural Indiana, it's not safe.

Property values are probably going to do better than everywhere. People move here from NYC because it's cheaper, and people will always want to work in NYC and people will always want to live in or near NYC. When there are slumps, these two towns fare better than just about everywhere else, because they're the first two good stops off the train out of NYC.

thanks, Tom. And actually, that is helpful. And yeah, we are coming from NYC. And from a not-so-safe part of it...

Then you're already way ahead of the game. Look at it that way.

In terms of property values, Tom has it correct, though I've always felt that while this is the biggest investment you'll likely ever make, it's also your home and you need to be happy about it and comfortable in it. It's not a stock that can be dumped when feeling impatient.

not sure I agree with the reasoning for fairing better than everywhere else. Just a different perspective - when we were looking for a house 10 years ago we decided to look at maplewood/SO because they were "cheap" in comparison to many of the other towns along the midtown direct line. In fact it was one of the last towns to experience an explosive RE market which I attribute to its proximity to Irvington/Newark. That said, numerous PR campaigns have allowed Maplewood/SO to appreciate significantly in value and the values, while taking a hit recently, have held up fairly well. However if the economy worsens and the towns west of here become a little more affordable I think MW/SO values will decline at a faster rate than those other towns. Better schools and safer (a relative term) communities.

I echo what Tom says about property values. No matter what happens up or down, Manhattan will always be a few train stops away and folks will always want/need to live close to Manhattan. That provides a certain amt of insulation for us. Indeed, gas issues mean that more folks who were willing to drive a ways to a train station (I know folks in Randolph who drive and park in SO) aren't necessarily changing their ways, but would probably choose differently now. In other words, our location will always work for us.

I grew up in a gritty city and then lived in others. I feel like SOMA is paradise. However, I try not to let that make me careless about personal/home safety. I feel safe here.

I live in Maplewood, not SO, but down Parker towards SA. I have a couple of thoughts on this, that may or may not apply:

1. Visit the proposed neighborhood at several times of the day, especially evening week day, and week end afternoon and evening. I think a lot of neighborhoods look quiet during the week when people are out at work. See who's around, what they're doing, and how you yourself feel in terms of street behavior, noise and all the rest of it. I think this piece of advice applies whereever you're moving, in almost any state. Regardless of reported crime, or lack thereof, you have to feel comfortable in your neighborhood and things vary almost block by block once you get closer to SA.

2. Don't let pleasant surburban trees and houses lull you into a false sense of comfort compared to a grittier urban look. Traffic is pretty fluid around here.

3. Talk to, if you can, some street neighbors. Again, you need to feel comfortable given who you and the rest of your household is, and what you're accustomed to. One person's "safe" is another person's intimidating. Applies to noise, number of visiting cars, behavior etc.

I should say that I'm happy enough on my street and immediate surroundings. People walk their dogs, some folks jog. But, several blocks away, I might feel less comfortable. This kind of thing can be heightened if you are a single mother or similar, whether you have a kid who'd be walking around at night and so on. This stuff is, I think, very individual so one of the better checks is visiting the neighborhood later in the day when more people are home and either having parties, hanging out or whatever.

You also may want to check and see how many of the houses around you seem like rentals. I'm not sure, but I think that some of those blocks have a fair amount of Seton Hall students renting during the school year.

It may not be an issue where you are looking, but some posters have issues with partying during the school year.

cyn has a great point. On our street the HS kids used to walk down in groups around 3 pm in the afternoon. Before kids it didn't bother me as much, but after kids it drove me insane. The groups were loud and would wake up my napping children. In the last few years they stopped walking down our street as much, no idea why! But definitely talk to the neighbors, that is the best way to get a feel for the neighborhood.

And I do think it's universal, scarlet. In my home state, which many would consider safer though less diverse (not that I know what that really means any more) I bought my first house solo, as a divorced woman in my 30's. What felt comfortable to me was not a street/neighborhood that was mostly families with a lot of kids and cars, and noisy Sat night bar-b-ques. Many neighborhoods looked alike by day, not so much on the weekend, based on who lived there. I think the same applies around here, and that its important to feel a fit in terms of family style etc.

Also -- and shoot me for this now -- but sometimes women, or women over a certain age -- feel intimidated by stuff that others do not. If I put my women's safety first hat on, that tells me its ok not to get on the elevator if you're alone and the other occupants are kinda stereotypically skeevy or dangerous looking, it's ok to not want to live on a block where you feel uncomfortable because its all great big college guys, or loud swearing in the street, or hellion children on bicycles who wish to mow you down, or tons of danger dogs. I find that sometimes MOL-ers are not as sensitized to how some women might feel living alone in parts of the towns.

No reason to be shot overthat one, IMHO. ANd I think that reasoning is fair for everyone, not just for those of a certain age, and frankly not even for just women. It may be employed more by that particular demographic (I don't know one way or the other), but it's still valid however its applied.

sportsnut, I don't mean to say that Maplewood and South Orange have better investment stability -- or whatever the term is -- than Millburn, Summit, Chatham, etc. At times it might be better, and at times, it is definitely worse, though not by tons. But M/SO are distinctly different, so if you're happy in one, you may not be happy in another, so they're not totally comparable. In any case, this train line, from South Orange through Morristown, the property values are probably better than nearly everywhere in the country, when looking at stability. If you're looking for a town like South Orange, your only other choices are Maplewood and Montclair. Montclair is very similar -- and better in some ways --, but the home prices are quite a bit higher. And Montclair's train is worse.

Thanks, ctrzaska. I'm just feeling it lately, and I do find some gentlemen on MOL forget that it can be a factor for women, or women with children. I'm pretty tough personally, but I don't like my teenaged daughter walking around in the evening through some kinds of scenes that are a little more common out my way. I lived in the East Village before it was gentrified, and did a lot of night walking, but you're more on guard when the environment looks stereotypically scarey than when it doesn't.

Posted By: Tom ReingoldAnd Montclair's train is worse.

I wouldn't even it call it a train. It operates with roughly the same hours of a "Curves" gym (thats a business model that boggles my mind. Many of the one's I pass through out NJ on a daily basis appear to either NEVER be open or have hours like '9:00am-9:31am M/T/F and 1:30pm-2:47p W/TH/SAT'. Ms Freeway's cousin was looking at opening one but then backed out at the last second)

We spoke to our neighbors before we moved here. It is actually quite funny, one of the most important things to us was a neighborhood with a lot of young kids. Two of the families we spoke to talked about how many young families blah blah blah. Come to find out that there really are not as many as they made it sound out to be! Still love it, but really wanted a neighborhood filled with kids.

Probably because you have some? I know that was important to me when our daughter was little. As she got older seemed most of her friends were out of the neighborhood so not such an issue.

Truthfully, I like a street that has a mix of older people, little kids, teenagers, people in the 40's and 50's. Never college students or similar. Used to live in a university town and know too well the perils of living near them. All understandable for their age I suppose, but nothing I want to live near. Same for unrelated young people renting a house. Hours and behavior are never a match. Right now, the demographics of my street are not bad in terms of age, and they're diverse in other ways too.

Right now, I'd be miserable on one of the streets where everyone seems to be a stay at home parent and all the kids are little and the trikes are all over the place. All older people would be too sedate.

"in the upper section of the triangle between Irvington, Valley, and Parker."

Parker is in Maplewood. Also, that is a pretty big area (in two towns) you're describing, so it's hard to picture. Some parts are good, some are bad. If you could narrow it down a bit people might be able to give you more information.

ack - sorry. Specifically on W. Fairview , just west of Irvington Ave.

West Fairview has pro's and con's. It's near to the little shopping center, which is nice. However, it does have some problems with college students living in that area. They tend to party on Thursday, Friday, AND Saturday night during the school year. If you're in a good mood, it can be amusing to watch them drunkenly weave their way up Irvington Ave. However, if you have to be up for work on Friday morning, and you're woken up at 3am by a party that's STILL going on, you'll be less than amused.

If possible (I don't know how to do this), find out how many houses are "renters" in the immediate area of the one you are looking at. And don't forget to check on the houses on the street behind the one you are looking at. A party house 10 houses away will be less annoying than a party house directly across the street from you.

The college students used to live in the Irvington Ave/South Orange Ave/Ward place section, but they're now moving outside of that area, and the complaints are following them.

As far as crime statistics, check with the South Orange Police Department, 973-763-3000

Hope this helps.

that's a great idea....does anyone out there know how to find out the number of rentals on a given street?

You can probably check with the building dept./ code enforcement. They would issue certificates of habitability for any rentals (I think.)

btw - Don't let the discussion about the stabbing dissuade you. South Orange is a great town.

thanks - this is very helpful and reassuring!

We have good friends who live on W. Fairview & I have been there during the week & weekends at various times of the day & night - I don't recall hearing/seeing anything out of the ordinary & they have not complained of noise/issues (they are a family w/ kids).

thanks, doulamomma - would you feel save making the walk from the train after dark?

I like W. Fairview! Very nice homes in this area. Actually, I cannot think of any area of SOMA that does not have nice houses, generally speaking.

I have walked home from Irvington Ave in the evening. I was not afraid in the least. However, I agree that anyplace walking alone after dark can be worrisome for a woman alone...for anyone walking alone, actually, IMO. I was never afraid when I was young and strong but yes, as years creep up, up, up into those higher numbers I must admit I lack some of the confidence I once took for granted in terms of my personal safety.

But in answer to the OP's question of the area, I'd say yes, it is a nice family section of SO.
Partying college kids can be silenced with a phone call to the SOPD, who respond quickly whenever I have called to report the wild ones. In recent years the party-hearty houses have been quieter than in the past, jmo and my experience.

I'm almost positive there's a jitney route right through that area, for what it's worth..

I walk on South Orange Ave after dark pretty often. It is pretty well lit as is Irvington Ave. Of course no matter where, you must be vigilant.

Great Ethiopian restaurant around the corner from W. Fairview on Irvington Ave. One of our favorite SO restaurant.

We live on Fairview - a 1/2 block over from W. Fairview - and find that while some things are annoying - the occasional aforementioned drunken SHU student, some litterbugs, inconsiderate folks who boom their car stereos while sitting at a traffic signal, etc. - we enjoy living in this area. W. Fairview is probably a littler quieter than where we are - corner house - and you'd have some really nice neighbors.

And, just in case you have elementary age kids, you'd be in the South Mountain district.

Posted By: SO RefugeeAnd, just in case you have elementary age kids, you'd be in the South Mountain district.

Seriously? Aren't they closer to Clinton? It's a shame that the kids won't be able to walk to school.

Yep. When we moved to Fairview from Third Street, our daughter was supposed to transfer from South Mountain to Marshall but as we were in the middle of the school year, she finished out at SM. Her bus picked her up at the corner of WF and College (IIRC). Evidently, Irvington Ave. is one of the dividing lines on this side. I don't know where the Clinton district begins...

Posted By: orzabellethanks, doulamomma - would you feel save making the walk from the train after dark?

Hi,
I've never walked it myself, so I can't really say...if you want to whisper me your email address, I'd be happy to forward it to my friends...I believe they walk after dark from the train.