Long term unemployment

I was terminated from my full-time job about 10 months ago when my position was eliminated at my organization. Since then, I've been applying for jobs, networking like crazy, consulting with career counselors, and trying to find little gigs and projects here and there to have something that accounts for the time since I lost my job. I've had a lot of interviews and been a finalist for a couple of positions, but never got the final nod. I'm starting to get really burnt out with the continual rejection, and very pessimistic about my chances of ever again finding full time employment in my field (communications/PR/writing/editing). The fact that I'm a short, plump, middle-aged mom, I'm sure, does not help. I know that the only real answer is to keep getting back up on the horse again and again and keep trying and applying for things... but as I said, it seems to get harder with each new rejection. My unemployment ran out in May. If anyone has any suggestions or advice, I'd love to hear it at this point, because none of my current strategies are working. (Yes, I use LinkedIn every single day for networking and finding job postings.)

Are you a member of SOMa Advertising, Media, and Entertainment Network group on Facebook?

First, let me say that you have my sympathy. It really socks to be out of work. One thing that jumped out at me was that you've been a finalist a few times but ultimately were not chosen. Do you think there is something that goes wrong at that point? If they didn't like that you are a "short, plump, middle-age mom," they would have cut you sooner in the process. So, I'm thinking: Are your references in order? Credit check? (Although, if these jobs are in NY it's illegal to check credit of a job applicant). Your behavior toward the end of the process? Just something to think about.

Are you a member of Professionals in Transition? The group meets at the Maplewood Public Library. From the Libray's September Newsletter:

Professionals in Transition
Monday, September 12 Hilton Branch 10:00 am
PLEASE NOTE NEW LOCATION
Is Operating and Owning Your Own Franchise For You?
Learn the skills needed and the steps to take to be a successful franchise owner. Juan Pablo Chamorro will share his story from a long career in the corporate world to becoming the owner of a successful Certa-Pro Painting franchise.
If you have ever thought of owning your own business, were curious as to what goes into that decision, and would like to take your career decisions into your own hands, this workshop is just what you need.

Group meets on a variety of topics of interest to members.

Write a description of your dream job with everything just perfect, more than you can hope for. It will help you focus on the things you need and the things that you want but can live without. Once you've written it, send it out to everyone, not just on linkedin but also on facebook and in email. Outside of linkedin, people may not know you're looking. When you tell them you are, they may be glad to know what an asset you will be at your next position, rather than being annoyed that you're asking for something.

shoshannah said:

First, let me say that you have my sympathy. It really socks to be out of work. One thing that jumped out at me was that you've been a finalist a few times but ultimately were not chosen. Do you think there is something that goes wrong at that point? If they didn't like that you are a "short, plump, middle-age mom," they would have cut you sooner in the process. So, I'm thinking: Are your references in order? Credit check? (Although, if these jobs are in NY it's illegal to check credit of a job applicant). Your behavior toward the end of the process? Just something to think about.

I suspect that something is going wrong when the organization gets to the point of having to make a final choice, but I really don't know what it could be. Not aware of any issues with references -- have been under the impression that those people are glad to recommend me. Can't think of any possible credit issues -- we don't really have any debt other than our mortgage. I always send thank-you notes and try to follow the conventional advice to use them to restate the ways I think I'm a good fit for the position. My mother-in-law keeps telling me not to "seem too eager" when I go after a job -- maybe she's on to something? Maybe I need to be playing it cooler in my interviews?

bluepool said:

shoshannah said:

First, let me say that you have my sympathy. It really socks to be out of work. One thing that jumped out at me was that you've been a finalist a few times but ultimately were not chosen. Do you think there is something that goes wrong at that point? If they didn't like that you are a "short, plump, middle-age mom," they would have cut you sooner in the process. So, I'm thinking: Are your references in order? Credit check? (Although, if these jobs are in NY it's illegal to check credit of a job applicant). Your behavior toward the end of the process? Just something to think about.

I suspect that something is going wrong when the organization gets to the point of having to make a final choice, but I really don't know what it could be. Not aware of any issues with references -- have been under the impression that those people are glad to recommend me. Can't think of any possible credit issues -- we don't really have any debt other than our mortgage. I always send thank-you notes and try to follow the conventional advice to use them to restate the ways I think I'm a good fit for the position. My mother-in-law keeps telling me not to "seem too eager" when I go after a job -- maybe she's on to something? Maybe I need to be playing it cooler in my interviews?

I am in the same boat as you...as far as getting to the final choices. BUT this last interview I wasn't nervous, I tried not to volunteer too much information other than what was asked. I agreed with the interviewer a lot and stated reasons why I agreed. I acted (which I normally am) like the person she said they wanted for the team. I have shoulder length hair which I normally wear down, but it was so hot that day I wore it up. Maybe I looked a tad bit more professional. Just throwing off stuff here in case something hits a note. At the end of the interview, the interviewer said to me "you are so sweet"...almost like she couldn't help yourself from saying it. That is the kind of person the office wants on the team. I find out this week the decision made by the powers that be. I would be awfully surprised if I don't get the job. Then I will be looking at this thread more closely for other ideas too. BTW ... @Bluepool ~~~Good Luck and I hope you find something soon. But don't get discouraged. Keep your chin up and keep moving forward. I hear a lot of employers telling me they have sooooooooooo many applicants applying for jobs.

Steve said:

Are you a member of SOMa Advertising, Media, and Entertainment Network group on Facebook?

Yes... I posted there a while back but nothing came of it.

thing is, sooo many applicants for too few permanent positions, so we need to be very open to hoe we bring our skills and experience into new fields (and clobber that opposition). Remember, despite the increasing automation and casualisation of work, the predictions are that we will need to work to a greater age than previous generations so we need to good at reinvention. (I heard a workforce trends speaker the other day commenting that people entering the workforce now will need 20 to 30 careers -not jobs - over their lifetimes, compared to our 3 to 4. This was in a university-level lecture on management)

BP-

Do you have a particular specialty ie industry-wise? Any experience with financial/business writing?

Bluepool, I too was recently laid off when my communications position was eliminated but thankfully my time on unemployment was short. In 2009, however, I was out of work for a very long time. Obviously, the economy is much better now - but I'm also a lot older now. The difference between then and now, I think, is due to developing a specialty linked to a money-making industry, in my case, finance. With the contraction in publishing in NY, there are a gazillion people in this area with communications/PR/writing/editing skills. But companies are less likely to care if you're a "short, plump, middle-age mom" if you can write well about finance, or pharma, or IT, or real estate, or educational products. I'm not talking about writing technical manuals, but inhouse or agency communications. Am I interested in finance? No! But I can help financial services clients make money, so they need me. Is there any way you can focus your search in this way? Also have you tried the PR recruiters? Most of their jobs are for account people but they do get communications jobs as well. Don't give up hope. Being unemployed is scary, but desperation can lead to unexpected solutions. Good luck!

joanne said:

thing is, sooo many applicants for too few permanent positions, so we need to be very open to hoe we bring our skills and experience into new fields (and clobber that opposition). Remember, despite the increasing automation and casualisation of work, the predictions are that we will need to work to a greater age than previous generations so we need to good at reinvention. (I heard a workforce trends speaker the other day commenting that people entering the workforce now will need 20 to 30 careers -not jobs - over their lifetimes, compared to our 3 to 4. This was in a university-level lecture on management)

Joanne, the 20-30 career figure sounds very exaggerated to me -- but in general your point about bringing existing skills and experience into new fields and starting new careers is a good one. I've been wondering if the consistent rejection I've been experiencing is really a sign that I've reached the end of my first career and should be looking for the next one. Problem is figuring out what the next one should be... and trying to meet actual impending financial needs while that process creaks along...

berkeley said:

BP-

Do you have a particular specialty ie industry-wise? Any experience with financial/business writing?

I wish, berkeley. My background is pretty broad and spans PR agency, corporate communications, higher education, and nonprofit/fundraising. I've produced annual reports -- does that count as financial/business writing experience? I will say that if I'm confident of anything, it's my ability to pick up essentials quickly and start generating the type of writing required by an organization without needing a lot of hand-holding. I have made a number of dramatic transitions between different work environments -- from PR agency, to large international media/entertainment company, to law school marketing department, to university foundation -- and didn't find it difficult to start generating the required content, both digital and traditional... I'm very good at research and information-gathering, and therefore can get a lot of the background and context I might need by myself. I just wrote a bylined article for a tech company, despite having very little to no background in IT...

Sometimes it can be difficult, and maybe this is obvious advice, but it can help to tie your experience to achieving real results important to the organization. The law school marketing stuff brought in X more applications and Y more fundraising dollars. X client sold more stuff to more people, people are spending more time on their website etc. If you have a good relationship with past clients, they might help you with some of these numbers and metrics.

Regarding the rejection, it's tough but it really is part of the process. Reality is, a lot of hiring managers don't know precisely what they want, and they make mistakes in hiring. That's not to shift blame to the other side - it's possible your portfolio and presentation do need some work - but hearing "no" is an unfortunate but real part of all of this.

I would strongly recommend you get some coaching before going any further. A good coach will help you figure out and play to your strengths. If it's time for a new direction, s/he will help you find it. With all due respect to Tom and others, it's clear that a) you are doing all the "right" things; b) it's not working; and c) self-diagnosing the problem with the help of family and friends, including MOL, isn't working either. The way to move forward is to address the obstructions with a professional *before* you go further down the road of leveraging all your contacts, describing your perfect job to your friends, etc. Good luck!

deborahg said:

I would strongly recommend you get some coaching before going any further. A good coach will help you figure out and play to your strengths. If it's time for a new direction, s/he will help you find it. With all due respect to Tom and others, it's clear that a) you are doing all the "right" things; b) it's not working; and c) self-diagnosing the problem with the help of family and friends, including MOL, isn't working either. The way to move forward is to address the obstructions with a professional *before* you go further down the road of leveraging all your contacts, describing your perfect job to your friends, etc. Good luck!

Thanks, deborahg. I did have a few sessions with a career coach, where we worked on revamping my resume and discussed job search strategies; but at this point, with my unemployment having run out, I just can't afford any additional expert consultation.

I understand! Although I certainly don't see coaching as a luxury if you've been unable to move forward. For me, when I was a broke single mom, it was worth it -- I had to change my approach AND my career, so it was literally a "sink or swim" investment. Either way I wish you success!

I know it's a thread drift, and I don't want distract, The reference to the great number of careers also caught my breath. I did question it, and was assured that is what's being predicted. It's the pace of change, and the way technology is changing what we know as work. We used to think 'knowledge workers' were safe, now we know otherwise. There will be industries and jobs we can't even imagine yet, in just a couple of years. In 20 years, much of what we grew up with will be totally gone. The younger you are now, the more changes you'll have to make.

Over here, they want us to keep working until we're in our 80s.

joanne said:

I know it's a thread drift, and I don't want distract, The reference to the great number of careers also caught my breath. I did question it, and was assured that is what's being predicted. It's the pace of change, and the way technology is changing what we know as work. We used to think 'knowledge workers' were safe, now we know otherwise. There will be industries and jobs we can't even imagine yet, in just a couple of years. In 20 years, much of what we grew up with will be totally gone. The younger you are now, the more changes you'll have to make.

Over here, they want us to keep working until we're in our 80s.

Is that because of the lack of a social safety net, or a lack of population to work? Or both?

Neither. They've decided the best way to minimise pending on medical care and aged care, let alone pensions etc, is to keep us all working and paying taxes for much longer. It's what the Australian govt is now calling 'the taxed' vs 'the taxed-not'. They figure without the taxes, there's not enough for education, roads, Defence, politicians' wages....

15 years ago I was pretty much in the same spot. After a good 20 year run working one or two jobs I hit a section of being out of work for longer and longer periods. Then I started finding jobs that I could get, but, did not love. That evolved into a run of jobs that ran for a couple of years, the RIFs or up and up closings.

Sure got pretty down on things in general.

I was at one of those 'get a job' lectures (paid for by and ex-employer) and in a workshop where I had to write a summary of my last 5 job roles. Later I was reading it and it hit me. Why do I want to 'work for the man' again when I can work for my self? I took inventory of my skill sets and started my first business in Maplewood.

Three business later a couple of standing consulting gigs and my current goal is planning retirement and the transition of my current business to someone else, keeping the staff employed and moving to what ever is next.

Consider it. Working for yourself is a kick. I wish I had started it back when I was in the 30's. For sure I would be in a different place now, and the world would have a lot more beer laying around.

Later,

George of California in Jersey

We don't have beaches, we Haf Da Shore!

I hear this a lot when speaking to candidates. You're doing all of the right things but nothing seems to be happening.

Some small suggestions that may or may not help:

Re-do your resume with a professional. Some resumes I receive are 4-5 pages long. Weed out what is no longer relevant. Also, a very long resume can also show your age. You don't want to give your future employer any hint to your age.

Have two resumes to choose from: The job you have/had and the job you want. Tweak the "job you want" resume to make it fit into that position. Don't lie or embellish. A professional can assist you with this.

Test your skills online: TOSA/Isograd.com is a site many use to test their skills in Excel, Powerpoint, Word. Many companies will send you skill tests via email (ProveIt is a popular one). And although these tests aren't supposed to be used to choose a candidate, they do help separate those with low level skills from the ones with high level skills. Why not get ahead of the game and test yourself? Google "free skill tests" and see what you come up with.

Change your contact email address. If you use Yahoo., AOL, Hotmail, it tends to look dated and without your knowledge, prospective employers think they can "guess" your age.

Give a phone number that you'll actually answer! You'd be shocked by how many job seekers just list their home phone numbers and not their home and cell or my preference, just your cell.

Don't be too giving. What you may think is a simple statement may come across as a red flag for an interviewer. Keep it simple; don't be too chatty.

Google the company. The biggest mistake I think some make is towards the end of the interview you're asked, "So, do you have any questions for us?" and there's radio silence. If you do your homework on them, that shows your interest in that company.

Good luck to you!

I want to echo what Tom Reingold says - let all your friends and contacts know you are looking. I once heard a statistic that some huge percentage of jobs (maybe 50%, maybe more) aren't even posted on the job boards and I was skeptical. I now believe it. I got my last job only because a connection heard about it and thought of me - it was never posted for the wider world to discover.

deborahg said:

I understand! Although I certainly don't see coaching as a luxury if you've been unable to move forward. For me, when I was a broke single mom, it was worth it -- I had to change my approach AND my career, so it was literally a "sink or swim" investment. Either way I wish you success!

Many thanks!

kibbegirl said:

I hear this a lot when speaking to candidates. You're doing all of the right things but nothing seems to be happening.

Some small suggestions that may or may not help:

Re-do your resume with a professional. Some resumes I receive are 4-5 pages long. Weed out what is no longer relevant. Also, a very long resume can also show your age. You don't want to give your future employer any hint to your age.

Have two resumes to choose from: The job you have/had and the job you want. Tweak the "job you want" resume to make it fit into that position. Don't lie or embellish. A professional can assist you with this.

Test your skills online: TOSA/Isograd.com is a site many use to test their skills in Excel, Powerpoint, Word. Many companies will send you skill tests via email (ProveIt is a popular one). And although these tests aren't supposed to be used to choose a candidate, they do help separate those with low level skills from the ones with high level skills. Why not get ahead of the game and test yourself? Google "free skill tests" and see what you come up with.

Change your contact email address. If you use Yahoo., AOL, Hotmail, it tends to look dated and without your knowledge, prospective employers think they can "guess" your age.

Give a phone number that you'll actually answer! You'd be shocked by how many job seekers just list their home phone numbers and not their home and cell or my preference, just your cell.

Don't be too giving. What you may think is a simple statement may come across as a red flag for an interviewer. Keep it simple; don't be too chatty.


Google the company. The biggest mistake I think some make is towards the end of the interview you're asked, "So, do you have any questions for us?" and there's radio silence. If you do your homework on them, that shows your interest in that company.

Good luck to you!

Thanks kibbegirl -- I actually have already done most of this (with the exception of the skills tests). I do worry about your next to last point -- that in my attempts to establish rapport with an interviewer or hiring manager, I say something that comes across to them as off-putting; but the problem is that there's no way for me to really know. People tell me that with so many qualified applicants for professional jobs, the choice basically comes down to whether there's chemistry between the hiring manager and the candidate...

Let me switch up the theme of this woe-is-me thread a little. Say that you have a company, or maybe two or three, on your radar screen and that you would dearly love to get into one of them. What's a good strategy for getting around the usual process of applying for jobs through official channels and getting lost among a thousand other applicants? How can you get yourself noticed (in a positive light) and be in a position to get some kind of preferential consideration when an appropriate opportunity comes up? How can you make inside connections without becoming a pest or a nuisance, and get current employees to want to help you get hired?

I think you just jump in and find people - think of alumni from your school(s), colleagues and friends who have contacts at these places, and reach out. And cold call if there isn't a mutual contact. It doesn't have to immediately be about "I want to work at your company," just network about the industry, what their needs are, how they are changing and evolving, brainstorming some ideas you have. There isn't a magic bullet - some people enjoy this kind of networking and make time for it, others just don't. You won't really know who is which until you ask.

Assess if there are departments which likely have greater needs than others, and/or if there are short-term freelancing opportunities. Learn more about how they hire - if they use specific recruiters, make sure those people know who you are. Are their vendors and agencies that work/have worked with them - networking and working for them might be a good short-term opportunity. Also, the 2-3 companies that you think might be a great fit may turn out not to be, and vice-versa, so I'd work with a longer list of places and people.

Also if coaching isn't realistic financially, think through and perhaps identify a past client/colleague who might informally play some of the role on a limited basis.

Its very hard. I have seen so many highly-paid, long-term professionals suddenly unemployed and the situation can seem hopeless. It seems the marketplace is moving so fast and in so many different ways that it is very hard to have even a chance without some people working hard for you with their connections and contacts. I have no advice but I sympathize. And there's this. It CAN turn around in a day! I have seen that too, so don't give up hope, keep hope and keep at it.