If Baltimore MD Can Have Curfew Then So Can South Orange NJ archived

With all due respect, I doubt a curfew is needed for the hordes, as they seem to have taken a bit of a break from The Vill.

Granted there are some rather obnoxious and/or undesirable elements hanging around Sloan on the odd Friday or Saturday eve, but none that would require a curfew to reign in. What's faced by the PD in certain areas of Baltimore is far, far more serious than that ever faced by SO.

Have there been hordes recently?

No.

We haven't been down there on a Friday or Saturday night the past two weekends, but prior to that we haven't witnessed any real issues on the Downtown After Sundown nights. We have also noticed a good police presence. Between the behaving crowds and the foot patrols I don't see what else needs fixing at this time.

This would be another case of punishing the innocent (many of our home town teens) for the behavior of others. And, I also question whether it has even been a problem recently (?)

Pop down around 11:30 after the crowds and PD have left. Two weeks ago it was so nuts it was almost comical.

hoard
hôrd/
noun
plural noun: hoards
1.
a stock or store of money or valued objects, typically one that is secret or carefully guarded.
"he came back to rescue his little hoard of gold"
synonyms: cache, stockpile, stock, store, collection, supply, reserve, reservoir, fund, accumulation; More
an ancient store of coins or other valuable artifacts.
"a hoard of Romano-British bronzes"
an amassed store of useful information or facts, retained for future use.
"a hoard of secret information about his work"
verb
3rd person present: hoards
1.
amass (money or valued objects) and hide or store away.
"thousands of antiques hoarded by a compulsive collector"
synonyms: stockpile, store, store up, stock up on, put aside, put by, lay by, lay up, set aside, stow away, buy up; More

Thanks @tjohn. Edited for clarity and to preserve the integrity of this thread

ctrzaska said:

Pop down around 11:30 after the crowds and PD have left. Two weeks ago it was so nuts it was almost comical.

Wait, first you said there weren't hoards, but how you're implying (if not hoards) at least something that you thought was inappropriate. What did you experience exactly?

Hoard. Nuts. Comical.

ctrzaska said:

Pop down around 11:30 after the crowds and PD have left. Two weeks ago it was so nuts it was almost comical.

That can explain it.

Came into the Store this AM and found one of my potted plants dumped and the dirt on the sidewalk. I had just fixed the pot because it was dumped two weeks ago. Now I fix it again.

Oh, well. My other option is to stop trying and take the potted plants home and look like the rest of the Avenue.

Next thing you know I will look like KaLM. Plain, boring.

Or like this.

Dunkin Donuts after the fun of the Hordes.

ctrzaska said:

Pop down around 11:30 after the crowds and PD have left. Two weeks ago it was so nuts it was almost comical.

Has this been happening regularly? It seems that it has based on George's posts.

eta - We've noticed the police presence earlier in the evening.

mbaldwin said:

ctrzaska said:

Pop down around 11:30 after the crowds and PD have left. Two weeks ago it was so nuts it was almost comical.

Wait, first you said there weren't hoards, but how you're implying (if not hoards) at least something that you thought was inappropriate. What did you experience exactly?

I was trying to make a wide distinction between the scale of people involved. The OP was talking about a wholesale curfew that may have been appropriate when you had scores of kids marauding through town to any given Fri/Sat situation now.

As to two weeks ago... In the span of an hour-ish you had two delinquents fighting in front of Cait & Abby's, four others banging on the trunks of cars in the middle of Sloan (ostensibly annoyed at people interrupting their conversation if they dared drive by them), two dumbasses banging on signs and doing who knows what loud damage in the train station underneath (the folks getting off the trains I saw come in were horrified, still looking over their shoulders even from the other side of the street), f-bombs raining from some boyfriend/girlfriend spat from the train to the Ricalton lot, a nice chase around cars (serious or in jest I couldn't tell), at least three cars screaming through Sloan to the light and up SO Ave without stopping at the red, two idiots banging on the Starbucks window for water and to use the bathroom after they'd just closed five minutes early, a dude hawking a car radio and speakers from a bag, one of the usual suspects asking for money, and whatever else I forgot. Stopped counting the illegal u-turns, and the folks using the handicapped spots and the striped areas as hangout spots and pickup locations.

Does any of it warrant a curfew? No. Disgusting? Surely.

cramer said:

Has this been happening regularly? It seems that it has based on George's posts.

Far more regularly than I'd ever be comfortable with or would tolerate dead center of town, though last eve was relatively calm, barring the usual car craziness... doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason when, but the past two months I've had multiple late conf calls I've taken from Starbucks and the benches across Sloan quite regularly from about 10-midnight, and it's a 50/50 bet that at least something will be going on.

ETA: Just to clarify and not unfairly paint an overly alarmist picture, the evening two weeks ago has hardly been the norm, but take any two of those scenarios and it's not a stretch to see. Maybe I'm getting more intolerant as I get older (God help me), but none of those scenes are anything I'd ever think appropriate. YMMV.

^^^ Yikes, I'd have to agree with you, ctzaska. Think it has anything to do with when trains from NY come into the station with their load of folks fresh from the bars of manhattan?

Not really. The trains seem to be filled with folks returning home from the city from work or an evening out (and on Saturdays parades of what look to be dozens and dozens of exchange students or something). I've seen wives waiting for their husbands returning from work late on Fri actually leave their spots on Sloan and move farther into the Ricalton lot just to avoid te commotion.

The idiots seem to already be there (though I suppose could have gotten off an earlier train), many of whom with knapsacks in tow, which for the life of me I can't figure out what they're toting around. They often leave up SO Ave, some continuing on and others taking Irvington up.

Having lived in Baltimore, I think the curfew there is great. There's kids killing each other in the streets at night. Hearing gunshots and watching 12-15 year olds running down the street was a common sight during my 4 years there.
Not sure it's necessary in downtown SO, though. Have you called the police and suggested increasing presence during the times you've observed issues? I think the SOPD would respond well to any concerns about groups of unruly teenagers.

debpod said:

Have you called the police and suggested increasing presence during the times you've observed issues? I think the SOPD would respond well to any concerns about groups of unruly teenagers.

After Torpey spends $5000 of taxpayer money on his Peak Democracy contract, you'll be able to report it there, since no one in the Village's administration or on its governing body can read what you're writing on MOL. They assume your part of a small minority of whiners, hardly reflective of their real constituency.

Trans_Parent said:

debpod said:

Have you called the police and suggested increasing presence during the times you've observed issues? I think the SOPD would respond well to any concerns about groups of unruly teenagers.

After Torpey spends $5000 of taxpayer money on his Peak Democracy contract, you'll be able to report it there, since no one in the Village's administration or on its governing body can read what you're writing on MOL. They assume your part of a small minority of whiners, hardly reflective of their real constituency.

Don't forget insane, crazy, and psychotic. Some of his favorite words.

If memory serves, the idea to have music downtown on Friday and Saturday evenings to attract residents was first discussed on MOL. That discussion was in reponse to the flash mob incident that occurred on an unusually warm Saturday evening in March, 2011. The Downtown After Sundown concerts were a result of those discussions. The police presence downtown on weekend evenings had been instituted a couple of years earlier because of the flash mobs. The flash mobs were a much-discussed topic on MOL.

Why does SO need a curfew when they have Downtown after Sundown in place.

SO doesn't need a curfew. It probably could use police presence on Friday and Saturday evenings after 11:30 pm. The Downtown after Sundown concerts and police presence have been working well, at least before 11:30.

eta - "The Wire" took place in Baltimore.

Trans_Parent said:

debpod said:

Have you called the police and suggested increasing presence during the times you've observed issues? I think the SOPD would respond well to any concerns about groups of unruly teenagers.

After Torpey spends $5000 of taxpayer money on his Peak Democracy contract, you'll be able to report it there, since no one in the Village's administration or on its governing body can read what you're writing on MOL. They assume your part of a small minority of whiners, hardly reflective of their real constituency.

I assume this response is directed at the OP and not me. The point is, if it's an issue, you should be calling the police as opposed to just posting about it on MOL. As for me, I don't live in SO and you wouldn't catch me on SO Avenue after 11:30, because that's exactly the kind of crap I'd expect to see there.

The trustees read MOL. I am confident that something will be done.

cramer said:

SO doesn't need a curfew. It probably could use police presence on Friday and Saturday evenings after 11:30 pm. The Downtown after Sundown concerts and police presence have been working well, at least before 11:30.

I'm sure the OP was just putting it out there, and that's fine. Agreed there's absolutely no need for a curfew now as there wasn't in the time of the flash mobs.

As far as a police presence goes, I'd say parking someone here (Sloan, where I'm sitting as I type this in peace) would be great, but not always necessary. And sometimes they have. A regular drive-by would often be fine enough, though I'm not sure how that interferes with shift changes (at 11 or 12?).

that and also cameras posted, i think when cameras are present and behavior could be recorded shenanigans settle down.

The cameras???? I have two Village cameras on my building.

The last time we had a vandal I called the Police and pointed the kid out to them. The Officer snagged him. The kid started telling the Officer that he did not do it, it was another kid who ran off.

I pointed the camera out to the Officer and told him that the act was on the Village Digital Capture system and he could go check it out. The Officer did not know that the Village had cameras.

The kid was warned and let go.

Several things have developed over time, and, I have come to understand that the Police do not use the Digital Capture system.

I could be, and I hope that I am wrong, but it would be nice to know if they even know how to use the system.

later, Da
George

All's quiet as I sit on Sloan on a call on my bb.

Not counting, of course, the dude that just pulled up and parked halfway over into the handicapped spot in front of Stony's, got out, then proceeded to piss on the side wall of the place, ignoring the fact I'm sitting on the bench right HERE (and near a couple getting into their car in the Ricalton's lot no less-- hope they keep their dinner down), then calmly got back into his car and ran promptly through the red light without stopping and on up SO Ave.

Lovely stuff.

Why do you go outside to a bench at midnight to take a conference call? Doesn't sound safe or enjoyable.

Some additional info: Apparently there's a drain right there where Stony's gutter ends, so at least his urine wasn't splashed all over the lot. Clearly not his first rodeo, and only a minimal mess, so that's good.