I'll miss Franken's contributions. I'll miss the contributions he prevented even more.

A lot of people on this board have expressed ambivalence or outright disagreement with Franken's resignation, pointing out his contributions.  I'll admit to not following his senate career super closely, but from what I've seen I'd agree he's made positive contributions on policy and politics, and it's a shame to see him go from that perspective.

Of course, I can say the same about Louis CK.  I'm a fan of the show Louis. I got a lot out of the show, finding it insightful and funny and sad and, generally, good art. And it's a shame to see that go away.

And I can say similar things about a number of other prominent men who have made positive, significant contributions in their field and who are now disgraced.

But when I think this through, all it does it make all this worse, because these aren't stories of men engaged in inappropriate sexual behavior, they're stories of men exercising power over women. This means that for every visible career derailment (or, let's be honest here, given that these are by and large rich and popular white men, career pauses), there are untold careers that were suppressed or cut off before they even got started. Who wants to work, after all, in an office or industry where you're told in ways subtle and unsubtle that your professional qualities are only of secondary importance, if they count at all? 

And of the handful of women who have more than ordinary grit and push on with their careers anyway  (more than I would under those circumstances, most likely), how many of them find their careers stalled, blocked, or undermined as they fight their way the ladder? 

And of the handful of that handful who, somehow, are able to keep on pushing onward despite all of this, and actually make it to a level of seniority, how many, even, then, can count on the basic assumption of professionalism and respect their male colleagues take for granted their entire professional lives?

What contributions would these women be making in their fields -- in politics, in arts, in journalism, in business -- had they not had to also fight these headwinds? If we're sad about the loss of Franken's contributions, how much angrier should we be at all the contributions we're missing because "good men" like Franken played their part in upholding a culture that drives talented women out?

I can't say #metoo. I want a country where no one can.

PVW said:

A lot of people on this board have expressed ambivalence or outright disagreement with Franken's resignation, pointing out his contributions.  I'll admit to not following his senate career super closely, but from what I've seen I'd agree he's made positive contributions on policy and politics, and it's a shame to see him go from that perspective.

Of course, I can say the same about Louis CK.  I'm a fan of the show Louis. I got a lot out of the show, finding it insightful and funny and sad and, generally, good art. And it's a shame to see that go away.


And I can say similar things about a number of other prominent men who have made positive, significant contributions in their field and who are now disgraced.

But when I think this through, all it does it make all this worse, because these aren't stories of men engaged in inappropriate sexual behavior, they're stories of men exercising power over women. This means that for every visible career derailment (or, let's be honest here, given that these are by and large rich and popular white men, career pauses), there are untold careers that were suppressed or cut off before they even got started. Who wants to work, after all, in an office or industry where you're told in ways subtle and unsubtle that your professional qualities are only of secondary importance, if they count at all? 

And of the handful of women who have more than ordinary grit and push on with their careers anyway  (more than I would under those circumstances, most likely), how many of them find their careers stalled, blocked, or undermined as they fight their way the ladder? 

And of the handful of that handful who, somehow, are able to keep on pushing onward despite all of this, and actually make it to a level of seniority, how many, even, then, can count on the basic assumption of professionalism and respect their male colleagues take for granted their entire professional lives?


What contributions would these women be making in their fields -- in politics, in arts, in journalism, in business -- had they not had to also fight these headwinds? If we're sad about the loss of Franken's contributions, how much angrier should we be at all the contributions we're missing because "good men" like Franken played their part in upholding a culture that drives talented women out?

I can't say #metoo. I want a country where no one can.

How did I nor know that Bill Cosby was white?  Or  Rep. John Conyers who recently resigned rather than   fight allegations or Mike Tyson who was sentenced to a 6 year prison term for raping an 18 year old beauty queen?   I know...........they are the exception to the rule.

But are these women whose careers were derailed any more a victim than one who is prayed upon because she was in an alley at the wrong time and wrong place.?

It is the duty of society to make more whole the victim no matter what her work status are how prominent her boss.  In this country   of 50 different States and very different regions.  a prime duty should be equal justice meted out to the guilty and equal attempts at helping the victim heal whether it is in Mississippi or  Maine.             

author said:



How did I nor know that Bill Cosby was white?  Or  Rep. John Conyers who recently resigned rather than   fight allegations 

Careful there -- or someone's liable to point out that there are multiple threads full of people decrying Franken's fate, and none Conyers'....

PVW said:

author said:



How did I nor know that Bill Cosby was white?  Or  Rep. John Conyers who recently resigned rather than   fight allegations 

Careful there -- or someone's liable to point out that there are multiple threads full of people decrying Franken's fate, and none Conyers'....

I guess we can look at that as a black/white issue or just that Franken is so much more well known.  as a matter of fact I remember it recently posted that Frank and house committee intensely grilled one of Trump's neer do wells and stared the unraveling we see today.

There is virtually no subject that goes to print that cannot be viewed in several different lights.

I have found that to stand alone..........and voice opposition to something that is really a fait accompli      quickly brings out an angered band voicing the old cliche'  "Kicking a  dead horse"..I even had my own private stalker.  as voiced by a few MOL'ers

So iconoclasts  are unwelcome here........which in my case is strange because I like icons.

The secret to it all is publish your truth and screw the consequences  .

Is "Private stalker" what Tina Turner was singing about?

dave said:

Is "Private stalker" what Tina Turner was singing about?

Close.................but her's was Ike Turner and he had a financial interest in her

Not being from the Midwest, I am not that familiar with Conyers but I had to wonder about his mental condition when I heard him resign (retire).  He seemed confused and it was not apparent that he really understood what was happening.

We need to clean out the fossils in the House and Senate in order to make room for a generation that can remember what they did last week.

PVW: I'd like to congratulate you on a great opening post on this thread. When I was nineteen, I took a break from college to go to work at Time Magazine. I was a mere clerk, but my desk was located among the vaunted editorial offices, and I got to sit in on editorial meetings. From the moment I arrived, I was jeered, bullied and harassed by other clerks, who happened to be male. They teased me relentlessly, leaving pictures of pigs on my desk in the morning. And generally making my life miserable. A writer invited me to a lunch meeting and pressed his feet against mine under the table. I was totally unprepared for amy of thsis. I asked my parents for help. Tbey suggested human resources. I went and reported the events.nothing happened, except that the teasing got worse. it would have taken great talent and grit to fight it out, and even if i had been able to summon the talent to stay and rise up the ladder, I did not have the kind of grit it takes to ignore the teasing and bullying. I just fell apart emotionally. It was a terrible collapse of my career desires. It was a sudden end to my journalism dreams. So who knows, I might have been a contender!!!

I am a male.  I grew up under the influence of a strong and living Mother as well as a near saintly Grandmother.I was married in 1968.  I have a Daughter only my 3 Grandsons are all males.  That women have played a major influence in my life is a given. Opps,  can't leave out a kid sister.

I have seen discrimination here and abroad.  No need for anecdotes now.  Maybe one

OK .....female comrades of mine endured needless pain from physical examinations at the Womens House of Detention in NYC  Andrea Dworkin was one of them and a colleague.  If ever anybody of any sex would not take any shiit it was here.  I know she led a checkered life...heck we all did.  But since she was a person of note,   the Press focused on her.

Is there a lesson in all this?................Learned from Mother Jones.......Emma Goldman and all those courageous women who filled the Labor Movement...........

You gotta strike,  you gotta fight to get what you are owed.

Being nice gets you Committees to Study the Matter and even worse is citizen Committees..the Sop of all time.  To sit back and complain but do nothing is the greatest sin

The Lord helps those who help themselves  ...........and you won't find it in the Bible but he/she really  dislikes whiners.        

PVW said:

A lot of people on this board have expressed ambivalence or outright disagreement with Franken's resignation, pointing out his contributions.  I'll admit to not following his senate career super closely, but from what I've seen I'd agree he's made positive contributions on policy and politics, and it's a shame to see him go from that perspective.

Of course, I can say the same about Louis CK.  I'm a fan of the show Louis. I got a lot out of the show, finding it insightful and funny and sad and, generally, good art. And it's a shame to see that go away.


And I can say similar things about a number of other prominent men who have made positive, significant contributions in their field and who are now disgraced.

But when I think this through, all it does it make all this worse, because these aren't stories of men engaged in inappropriate sexual behavior, they're stories of men exercising power over women. This means that for every visible career derailment (or, let's be honest here, given that these are by and large rich and popular white men, career pauses), there are untold careers that were suppressed or cut off before they even got started. Who wants to work, after all, in an office or industry where you're told in ways subtle and unsubtle that your professional qualities are only of secondary importance, if they count at all? 

And of the handful of women who have more than ordinary grit and push on with their careers anyway  (more than I would under those circumstances, most likely), how many of them find their careers stalled, blocked, or undermined as they fight their way the ladder? 

And of the handful of that handful who, somehow, are able to keep on pushing onward despite all of this, and actually make it to a level of seniority, how many, even, then, can count on the basic assumption of professionalism and respect their male colleagues take for granted their entire professional lives?


What contributions would these women be making in their fields -- in politics, in arts, in journalism, in business -- had they not had to also fight these headwinds? If we're sad about the loss of Franken's contributions, how much angrier should we be at all the contributions we're missing because "good men" like Franken played their part in upholding a culture that drives talented women out?

I can't say #metoo. I want a country where no one can.

In my defense of Franken, it was about more than  his contributions. It came from listening to the accusations and feeling that the punishment did not fit the crime.  It is of course only my opinion but isn't that why we have hearings?

I will miss Mark Halperin, MSNBC contributor. I loved Game Change and enjoyed his discussions with John Heilemann but in his case the accusations seemed more serious than the ones that I heard about Franken.  As well, he was not elected by voters who may feel cheated by Franken's forced resignation. Someone mentioned that Franken will be replaced by a Dem, which means we still have that vote, but I argue that it is not simply a yay or nay vote that benefits our cause, but the ability of a senator or a congressmen to make a convincing case.  He was a standout and capable of making arguments that might sway an undecided.

We are placing all of the accused in one category.

Franken was a great speaker and greater interviewer. I would have preferred a compromise such as censure and apology, but the moment did not permit it. History is a powerful.force. if there is now a "vacuum" among the Democrats, nature abhorring a vacuum, there will be others as brilliant, or even moreso!

Thanks for sharing, peaceinourtime.

"The moment did not permit it"?  Nonsense. It wasn't the moment's fault.  His colleagues drove him out.  None of them spoke up for the voters of Minnesota, due process, or the punishment fitting the offense.  Cowardly.  Craven.