How Much/Little Do Say regarding your siblings treatment of your parents?

Just curious for those with selfish, dysfunctional siblings- how much do you say or do you just stay out of it?

My sibling mooches off my parents for money and ridiculous amounts of childcare (60+ hrs a week). I seethe sometimes over this not because I want the $ or time but because I am sad my parents can't have a normal life. My mom never sees her friends for lunch anymore, they rarely go out to dinner with friends and the only time they can take a vacation is if I take the kids (which also means I never get any 1on1 time with my parents). I don't say much about this because I know they feel like the kids need to be with them more for their own well-being and mental health. And I agree with that- less time with their parents is better for them. I'll add that the excessive child care is NOT because of a job- its' at least 50% because the sibling goes out, gets her hair/nails done, runs around with friends, goes to the gym. Probably 50% of the child care is a necessity due to siblings work. 

The past few weekends have left me with utter disgust and contempt for my sibling (rather than just my usual dislike). My 74 yr old mother and father (my father still works FT and has had heart surgery) have spent the past month or so on their one free day (Sundays when kids go with their father), raking and cleaning up her yard. She sits in her house or goes to the gym when they do this. They do it so the kids have a clean, nice place to live so I understand that but I am livid that they allow her to sit there while they do this. The past 2 months, she's only worked a few hours a day/20 hrs a week or so (fired from two jobs and now in training for 4 weeks for anew one),so there is no reason why this couldn't have been done by her completely. My 17 yr old nephew also just sits down in his room while this is going on. He occasionally goes out and offers to help begrudgingly if forced by the sibling ( yes, the one who also sits there).

I express some disgust when my parents say how they spent the day but honestly I am ready to explode with anger. How do you handle situations like this? Tell your sibling off, let it be, other? This is just one example but it's really at the point where I can't even be around sibling for the way she treats them (and everyone else).

(And, no, they won't hire a landscaper for their own large yard or for siblings' or allow anyone else to do so) and, honestly, if we resolved the yard work thing, so new form of mistreatment would come up.

I usually don't say anything because I don't want to make my parents' lives even harder and I don't say anything to the sibling because I barely speak to her anymore anyway and it'll just turn ugly no matter how I try to approach her. But I am so "done" with all of this.

I'm wondering why your parents allow her to treat them this way?  What are their views?

This is their fight, not yours.  

I definitely understand your perspective, but there are many families where the grandparents are more active with the children than the parents are. My experience is, even if it's not their first choice every day, many people consider it their first obligation to care for their family - children, grandchildren, aging parents, a niece/nephew or aunt/uncle who isn't well, and they take pride in it. Maybe they miss the lunches and dinners with friends, perhaps they don't. 

I'm not even really talking about the child care piece because I know the kids are better off. Although that's excessive too. And they very much do miss lunches and seeing their friends especially my Mom.

I see friends that have their parents provide child care even full time but this is excessive. It's about the line between neeed and just plain taking advantage.

That's what I'm asking. So, if you saw your parents being mistreated and taken advantage of, you don't say anything to them or to the person taking advantage of them? You just let it be?

As to "why" they allow it- because they are trying to make a nice life for their grandchildren. They want them to have a safe, reasonably attractive yard to have friends over. A-hole sibling doesn't care but they do and sibling just won't do things like clean the yard. So, they do it because no one else does. 

I totally "get" their reasons and I feel bad for them but what this is causing in me is complete hatred for the sibling. Like, I can't even look at her anymore because her selfishness is beyond words. I also want to stand up for two people who won't do it for themselves rather than being the peacemaker. But I continue to just bite my tongue as resentment grows.

I've learned in my few years to stay out of my parent's relationship with my siblings. No  matter what...I don't get involved because it would go like this: I say something to our parent about how it's unfair they're being mistreated, they agree, they try to stand up to sibling doing the mistreating, sibling cries, throws tantrum, gives silent treatment, our parent backs off goes back to how things were, then my relationship with sibling is strained. Rinse repeat. Since I can't change my parent's mind, or my sibling's, I changed my attitude towards it. I'm Switzerland. I don't allow our parent to complain to me about sibling, since they're not going to act on my advise anyway, and I in turn maintain a very cordial relationship with said sibling because they don't see me as being involved in their business. Which if I'm being honest, it isn't. It doesn't make sense nor should it, but said sibling is not my child, if our parent wants to allow them to take advantage while they're still physically and mentally capable of putting their foot down, that's on them. It's their child. Now if parent came to me for help and I believed they were serious about seeing it through then maybe, but until then, nope. It's between them. No good deed goes unpunished is my motto. 

sounds about right. Thanks. Problem is I am finding it hard to maintain any relationship with sibling because of all the selfishness. It's cordial on holidays for the sake of the kids but almost non-existent rest of year now.

That part is hard. We find ground we can agree on and go with that. Works well, we both have kids the same age. We like the same foods and drinks and parties, yay drinks. If I was ever in jail, she would bail me out no matter what, so we focus on what we have, scant as it is. I feel you, I'm the first born in my family, it's rough.   

conandrob240 said:

sounds about right. Thanks. Problem is I am finding it hard to maintain any relationship with sibling because of all the selfishness. It's cordial on holidays for the sake of the kids but almost non-existent rest of year now.

ha. We've never had any common ground or common interests. And she'd be the last person on earth I'd call if I needed to be bailed out of jail. I help her when she needs it and I am as nice as I can be on holidays or when I'm around the kids and her together.  That's about all I can do. A call once. A week or so, a text here and there and seeing her when necessary on holidays.

One word:

Boundaries.

You need to have WAY tighter/stronger boundaries with your family. 

How do you even know all this detail about the yard, your nephew sitting in his room, your sister getting her nails done, the number of hours she works?  Try not to know all this info. You're not staying out of it if you know this level of detail.

I know you will say that you have to be heavily involved to save the kids and to save your parents, etc. Actually, you don't. Their lives will be f-ed up no matter what you do. You can perhaps make it a little less so, but sadly, it is what it is. Whenever you find yourself seething or about to explode just say this to yourself:

1. My parents are competent and of sound mind. They make their own choices. They are allowed to make choices that are different from the ones I'd make.

2. The kids are damaged, and that will not change.

3. I can give only X amount of time and love and money. That's my limit.

4. It's a shame and f-ed up, but it's not my job to change the situation. Nor will my intervention change it, even if I tried.

5. Doing any more than my limit will bring just diminishing returns for the children and make my own life more miserable.

@conandrob240 - Are we related? LOL!

@ElizMcCord's view is spot on. I allow my Mom to ***** and moan about what sibling has done/is doing and just provide an ear. I don't want to provide an ear because the more I hear, the angrier I become but I have no control over the situation so...I'm just an ear. I get angry at my Mom and angry at my sibling. It's a very passive aggressive relationship with a minor child involved. Sibling is very controlling, runs hot and cold and can be unpleasant to be around, with everyone. 

I told my Mom that she and her husband are treated this way because they allow it. And that's the way you have to view your parent's situation. For whatever their reasons, they are allowing this behavior. As much as we'd love to know WHY they are allowing it, that may not ever be revealed so for now, lend support from a distance and as selfish as it may sound, be thankful it isn't you. 

ElizMcCord said:

I've learned in my few years to stay out of my parent's relationship with my siblings. No  matter what...I don't get involved because it would go like this: I say something to our parent about how it's unfair they're being mistreated, they agree, they try to stand up to sibling doing the mistreating, sibling cries, throws tantrum, gives silent treatment, our parent backs off goes back to how things were, then my relationship with sibling is strained. Rinse repeat. 

My parents don't complain typically or ***** and moan. It's more simple- I ask what they did today and they say "cleaned up x's yard". At the same time, I get a text from sibling that she's at the gym or something like that. No one's complaining to me about the other one. They might share that nephew didn't come out and help as an example of his detached behavior or as an expression of concern "x sat in his room all day again without seeing his friends". 

I have no idea what you're getting at about boundaries and knowing this information? Of course I know what my parents do on the weekend, what on earth are we supposed to talk about? And I know my sisters work situation because she tells me about her job. You don't know if your sibling works full time or part time? And I know what the kids do (and who they are with) because I talk to them/FaceTime every day. That's not going to change. It's not like someone's sharing weird, secret details of their lives LOL

Anyway, good advice on accepting that they are adults and it's their right to allow it. I wasn't really trying to change it but trying to navigate when/how much to say or not. Sounds like my approach to generally not say anything is the right-ish one. That doesn't change how much it makes me dislike the sibling, though. And it CAN change a bit. When I texted nephew that he shoujd be ashamed of himself letting his grandparents work like that while he did nothing, it was reported (excitedly) that "xxx helped us today and we had a nice few hours with him". That's the kind of change I was hoping for. His mother is beyond help or at least beyond my trying to change her. Not my job.

I know this is frustrating, but I say stay out of it. Put it out of your mind if at all possible. Bringing the matter up can't help and can only hurt. Live your life the best you can.

No, I don't know how much or how often my sibs are working. It sounds strange to you because it's not the way you've lived your life. If you talk only once/week, the conversation is just about the big stuff, not the day-to-day details. I would venture to say that most adults don't talk/text their parents and sibs every day, or every every other day. You can change it.

Re: Your nephew. Encourage him. Don't shame him. He's already so ashamed.  But, again, give him the encouragement to help out in a big-picture conversation when you see him or talk to him.  OK, it worked out great this time. But in general, try to avoid doing it as an on-the-spot micro-manage of a currently occurring situation. That's getting into the weeds (no pun intended), which is what you want to avoid. Keep it big picture for your own sanity.

most people (especially daughters) don't talk to or text their mothers almost every day? I would think that's not true. Anyone care to weigh in? I also think if you had a sib who was in a place of building a career/ looking for/losing jobs, you'd very much have sense of what was happening with her work. Most women I know who have a sister also talk or text them daily or almost daily. I think maybe you are the one who's a bit "odd" on this one.

And I certainly wasn't asking for advice on how to talk to or "coach" my nephew. You are out of line. My intent wasn't to micromanage that situation and get him outside, my intent was to make sure he knew I was pissed at him and that it is unacceptable to let your grandparents work like dogs while you stand by and watch. shaming was the intent and deserved in this situation. He's been told before about this kind of stuff. And I do plenty of encouraging of him all the time. 

Yes, it is true. They feel bad if I bring it up. They know the situation sucks and their daughter is a disaster. The sibking is more who I want to "bring it up" with to tell her what an a$& she is. But, you are right, there's no point to that either because she'll never change. I'd be wasting my breath.

Tom_Reingold said:

I know this is frustrating, but I say stay out of it. Put it out of your mind if at all possible. Bringing the matter up can't help and can only hurt. Live your life the best you can.

conandrob240 said:

most people (especially daughters) don't talk to or text their mothers almost every day? I would think that's not true. Anyone care to weigh in? I also think if you had a sib who was in a place of building a career/ looking for/losing jobs, you'd very much have sense of what was happening with her work. Most women I know who have a sister also talk or text them daily or almost daily. I think maybe you are the one who's a bit "odd" on this one.

And I certainly wasn't asking for advice on how to talk to or "coach" my nephew. You are out of line. My intent wasn't to micromanage that situation and get him outside, my intent was to make sure he knew I was pissed at him and that it is unacceptable to let your grandparents work like dogs while you stand by and watch. shaming was the intent and deserved in this situation. He's been told before about this kind of stuff. And I do plenty of encouraging of him all the time. 

Regardless, you don't have to. There's no odd or not-odd. Just what makes sense for a given situation.  If the situation frustrates you, don't be in such close touch. If you don't like hearing all the f-ed up things that go on, don't talk so often. Even if every, single other daughter in the entire world talks to her mother and sister every day, YOU don't have to.

I would most certainly be out of line if I went to your house or your sister's house to intervene. I would be out of line if I called you names or otherwise denigrated you. But if you post personal problems on a message board, expect tough answers that you don't want to hear. Expect answers that you disagree with. Don't post with the expectation that every answer will be palatable to you. If you don't like an answer, ignore it. Or you can disagree and say thanks anyway for your input. 

What you can't do is invite just a narrow range of responses that you like.

17 years old???!

They can have them over all day and still step out for lunch with friends.  

Unless we're talking special needs kids of course. 

Good luck to your parents on any account 

I strongly disagree and I take issue with you offering a critique of an interaction with my nephew which had nothing to do with the question. It was rude and out of line. No thanks offered. It's like criticizing your parenting on a thread about where to eat dinner. Rude and mean.

And I think your line of thinking around close contact is a bit off base. It seems you are not close to your family if you think near daily contact between mother and daughter is out of the ordinary. But, for that one, your opinion was related to the question asked and I appreciate the perspective even though I disagree. So, thank you.

No, he's fairly easy although with no drivers license he does need some dropping off/picking up but hopefully that'll end in a few weeks. There are 2 little kids (9,7)

Scully said:

17 years old???!

They can have them over all day and still step out for lunch with friends.  

Unless we're talking special needs kids of course. 




Good luck to your parents on any account 

I don't talk to my mom every day and I don't have any adult women friends who do, unless the parent is in some sort of crisis. It's not odd, but I don't think it is the norm for women of our generation. Can't comment on the sister thing. 

Just another data point: I happily vacation with my mother and two sisters and we're all on extremely good terms, but we haven't had more than weekly phone calls since college days, unless there's a family emergency, and sometimes much more time elapses, depending on travel and work demands. 

Among my friends there's some variation; apart from the moms of college-age daughters and those planning weddings, occasional contact seems the norm. 

I don't speak to my mom everyday because it usually finds it way to "can you believe what sibling #2, 3, 4 did?" at which point I suddenly get busy and have to go. Don't speak to sibling #4 often because it usually results in "can you babysit for X hours" but if I ask for a sitter on a very rare occasion, she has to work at the last minute leaving me in the lurch. Sibling #2 always needs money which I don't mind giving so I get a ton of quality convo in before I text some money to him. We speak rarely but we're very fond of each other. Sibling #3 never needs anything nor can I give him anything of value anyway so we chat infrequently but we're fond of each other. We were once all over involved in our total disapproval of sibling #2's wife, (she's a pill) but it just alienated him, so we stopped. His wife his life. Less is more in our family I've learned. The less the merrier. 

wonder if it's generational or cultural? My husband is fine talking to his parents once every few weeks. (Not because he doesn't like them either lol). To me that's super-weird. I thought it was a guy thing.

and I have definitely reduced the sibling contact for sure. She still texts endlessly though but we are down to a conversation once a week or less which has definitely reduced stress. 

Sadly the fact of the matter is that your parents and sister are in a very dysfunctional codependent relationship. It takes two parties for this to happen and your parents are just as guilty. If they continue to baby her by solving her problems she will continue to act like a child. Unfortunately my parents have a similar relationship with my brother though not as extreme. It will be tough for them to learn the life skills they need when the parents pass and they are finally on their own. But we can't do anything about it and I manage it by not interfering. In the past this has just made people either mad or sad, but not changed anything.

ElizMcCord said:

Less is more in our family I've learned. The less the merrier. 

BINGO.

very true. I guess this is hitting especially hard because I know they have limited time left to be able to do some of the things they enjoy and it's heartbreaking. If they raise these kids, they aren't going to be able to travel and enjoy those things the same way at 86 years old.  

NizhoniGrrrl said:

Sadly the fact of the matter is that your parents and sister are in a very dysfunctional codependent relationship. It takes two parties for this to happen and your parents are just as guilty. If they continue to baby her by solving her problems she will continue to act like a child. Unfortunately my parents have a similar relationship with my brother though not as extreme. It will be tough for them to learn the life skills they need when the parents pass and they are finally on their own. But we can't do anything about it and I manage it by not interfering. In the past this has just made people either mad or sad, but not changed anything.

BINGO again.

Maybe you can plan these trips for you and your parents that don't involve the grandkids, sounds like the parents deserve it. If they won't do it for themselves make them go with you. Parents get some time to see the world, sibling left alone gets a chance to do some adulting. Win-win, I think. 

conandrob240 said:

very true. I guess this is hitting especially hard because I know they have limited time left to be able to do some of the things they enjoy and it's heartbreaking. If they raise these kids, they aren't going to be able to travel and enjoy those things the same way at 86 years old.