Honk if you .....

Do not appreciate people allowing their animals relieve themselves on other people's property. Sad some people have to be reminded of this.

And no, acting like you're checking your email doesn't absolve you of anything folks.

Peeing or pooping? I had a dog. I'm okay with the pee. I called some guy out for doing the very thing you mentioned (checking his phone and not cleaning up the poop). He made some very crude gestures and when I got back home the poop bag was on my front lawn. I won though. I saw him with his girlfriend later on and ran out and tried to return the bag to him. Of course, he denied it and I was like, oops!I don't know if she knew but you should have seen how red he got... I haven't seen them since.

I desire no form of waste on my property, animal or other, except my own flowing though the proper channels, if you will or perhaps of the bird variety

Those who act as if you're the bad guy in circumstances such as you've described fall within a special sub-category of doucheosity, a very special subset indeed

Allowing your animal to relieve itself on other people's property is a scummy move. If you're doing it, you're in laziness denial. Your neighbors hate you, even if they're too nice or afraid to say it to you. You're telling them every day that their property is there for your animal's waste elimination, and you only care about yourself, no matter how wonderful you think you are.

If you think *****ting on someone's property and then huffing "but I picked it up!" absolves you of being a horrible neighbor, an offer: I will have a dog poop on a dinner plate. Then I will wipe it off with a paper towel and serve you spaghetti on it, and you can eat it. Cool with that? No? Then keep your animals off other people's property.

Cue the "justify my behavior" brigade.

Other things not to tolerate on a dinner plate before spaghetti: grass clippings, soil, worms, rabbits (except, perhaps, in a nice ragu) and croquet.

I'm new at dog ownership, but thought that the standard was that if you dog defecates during a walk, you clean it up, and you keep your dog as near the sidewalk as possible (ideally in the strip between sidewalk and street).

Frankly, my new dog is a well-house-trained, mostly-indoor rescue dog, who loves to walk and explore. She generally needs to do her thing during her walk (I think the walk helps her "do her thing"). Is the OP trying to suggest that I should fence my yard and refuse to ever let her walk anywhere else for fear she might answer nature's call along the way?

How do you keep the deer from using your property like they use mine? Dogs or no, I know that my yard is routinely used as a toilet by wild animals and feral/outdoor cats. Honestly, as long as my neighbors clean up any dog poop, they are not significantly changing the cleanliness of my yard (I hate the big deer pellets...).

If there is a community standard that other dog owners know and I do not, then I'm hoping the dog-owning community will correct me, because I thought we were doing it right by keeping our dog on the very edge of the property when we walk, and cleaning up carefully.

If the OP is just unusually picky about his yard, then I promise to do my best to make my pet avoid any yards that are posted as "no dogs please".

(But in return, jackson fusion, I want to see you wipe your plates on your dog-free yard before you eat spaghetti off them, as a thank you for my efforts )

The argument is probably that dogs, unlike rabbits and deer, are under the control of a human who should know better and, unlike clippings and croquet, don't belong on the yard at all or add anything beneficial to it. (I'm still thinking the plate analogy might have a crack or two in it, though.)

Robert_Casotto said:
I desire no form of waste on my property, animal or other, except my own flowing though the proper channels, if you will or perhaps of the bird variety
Those who act as if you're the bad guy in circumstances such as you've described fall within a special sub-category of doucheosity, a very special subset indeed

So if my (fictional) dog pees on the berm between the sidewalk and the street, you're gonna get medieval on my ass? Lighten up, Francis.

I don't think anyone is fighting a battle over the berm. The yard is a different story.

Respectfully, asking the dog owning population isn't the right population to ask. The home owning population is. Any reasonable person cannot believe that a homeowner is going to be happy about dogs relieving themselves on their yard. That being the case, you shouldn't allow it.

Dave- you are right. Without getting into the relative disease and parasite differences between herbivores and omnivores, people should be held to a higher standard than animals. My challenge still stands- if the argument is that once poop is picked up its not unsanitary, I'd say "marinara or pesto?"

If the answer is the dog is uncontrollable, perhaps ownership of said dogis something that should be carefully considered, for any number of reasons.

OK, if we are not fighting over the berm, then we are in agreement about dog owner behavior. We use a short leash, and don't go beyond the berm, or the first foot of yard if there isn't a berm (as is the case on our street). We clean up, always, and carry the bag home.

I believe those are the general community standards for dog owners (although some don't adhere well enough).

We continually strive to improve the training of our dog, but recognize that she came to us as a six-year-old rescue, so it won't happen overnight. I'm hoping that by winter we can have her trained to eliminate the moment we set foot outside...but we aren't there yet.

Of course poop is unsanitary, be it dog, cat, raccoon, fox, bird, deer or any of the others that end up on my lawn. I just don't think that properly picked up dog poop makes an appreciable change in the cleanliness or useability of my yard, but obviously you feel differently. I won't be eating off any of our yards, with or without dog poop, thank you very much.

Jackson_Fusion said:
I don't think anyone is fighting a battle over the berm. The yard is a different story.

Respectfully, asking the dog owning population isn't the right population to ask. The home owning population is. Any reasonable person cannot believe that a homeowner is going to be happy about dogs relieving themselves on their yard. That being the case, you shouldn't allow it.

Dave- you are right. Without getting into the relative disease and parasite differences between herbivores and omnivores, people should be held to a higher standard than animals. My challenge still stands- if the argument is that once poop is picked up its not unsanitary, I'd say "marinara or pesto?" ">
If the answer is the dog is uncontrollable, perhaps ownership of said dogis something that should be carefully considered, for any number of reasons.

Have your dog pee on your own berm not someone else. ain't that a novel idea?

As long as people cleanup after their dogs, I really don't care. I am not sure I understand the issue unless some plants are visited so frequently that the plants are dying.

Disclosure: I am not a dog owner.

Robert_Casotto said:
Have your dog pee on your own berm not someone else. ain't that a novel idea?

Seriously? There are things you can control, and things you can't. A dog peeing on "your" berm is one of those you can't. I suggest you find a better way to channel your anger

My understanding is that the berm belongs to the town, not the individual homeowner, and therefore dog caretakers are within their rights to allow their dogs to relieve themselves there. Otherwise, pet byproducts should be confined to their people's yards. It wasn't until I arrived in Maplewood that I learned this, but it seems reasonable enough.

I loathe dog owners with poor etiquette as much as the next guy but the dinner plate comp is overly fastidious IMO.

Are you saying if dogs were kept off your property, you'd be willing to eat dinner off your lawn?

marylago said:

Robert_Casotto said:
Have your dog pee on your own berm not someone else. ain't that a novel idea?

Seriously? There are things you can control, and things you can't. A dog peeing on "your" berm is one of those you can't. I suggest you find a better way to channel your anger

Elle_Cee said:
My understanding is that the berm belongs to the town, not the individual homeowner, and therefore dog caretakers are within their rights to allow their dogs to relieve themselves there. Otherwise, pet byproducts should be confined to their people's yards. It wasn't until I arrived in Maplewood that I learned this, but it seems reasonable enough.

Both of these make perfect sense to me.

I know people who have dogs that are beautifully well behaved, but even they cannot dictate when in the course of a walk the dog will decide to relieve itself. If the dog begins to go, are you suggesting they pick it up, insert a cork, and carry it back to their own lawn for the appropriate discharge? Not realistic. Besides, if every other animal and bird living in the wild is both peeing and pooing on your lawn with callous disregard for your sensibilities, what difference does a little more from a well-controlled dog really make? Particularly since dog owners clean up the poop a lot more often than the average deer does.

Speaking for the Maplewood realm:

The berm is for dogs to go on. Expect it. When you see it happening, you may ask the dog owner not to let it happen there. Some of them will comply. When I lived in Maplewood, I let my dogs go on the berm, and three neighbors (out of dozens whose properties I passed) asked me not to let it happen. Fine. I remembered which properties, and kept my dogs off. But it's not your property, so if they don't comply, you have no legal recourse. It's a grey area as to what expectations of behavior and etiquette apply. I complied just to be polite, and I didn't mind. But before receiving a request, I felt fully in my rights to let my dogs go on the berm.

If one treats their berm as their own yard, sod, seeding, weeding and irrigating, it can be frustrating to see the pee-burn marks. I would rather them poop and pick up than see the burn marks. Unfortunately, this is one of the things you just have to let go, as fastidious as you may be about your lawn. I gave up and worry about more important things.

And, where there is no berm, there is still a "street tree" region along the edge that functions as berm.

(I verified this when I had a roadside tree that needed removal...although we have no sidewalk, it was still a Village tree, and we were expected to wait until they decided it was too damaged to leave up)

Student_Council said:
I loathe dog owners with poor etiquette as much as the next guy but the dinner plate comp is overly fastidious IMO.
Are you saying if dogs were kept off your property, you'd be willing to eat dinner off your lawn?

I'm saying team "hey I picked it up what's the big deal" is welcome to take the spaghetti challenge, nothing more, nothing less. Willingness to eat off the ground is wholly irrelevant- but indulging for a moment- is the standard that in order for one to resent others *****ting on their property that it be necessary to be willing to eat off that object?

In any case- this is easy stuff. Nobody likes dog ***** or pee. People do, however, like their property. Ergo, don't put dog waste on other people's property. This is unambiguous! Sure, accidents happen. But the persistence of what I see around the neighborhood, the crap I find on my lawn, and the justifications I see here tell me that common sense sadly often isn't.

Is it the end of the world or a reason to uninvite someone to the holiday party? Good grief, no. But don't think for a second your neighbors are happy with your behavior, even if they're willing to put up with it because on balance they like you. Just don't do it

That's not directed at you SC- I assume that this would fall under your umbrella of "bad dog owner behavior" and take you at your word that you find it to be repellant.

When your dog is about to pee, why can't you steer the dog to the gutter? That way it doesn't poison the grass or plants on your neighbor's yard or on the berm. Or am I missing something?

Our dog died years ago, but he was trained not to walk on other folk's lawns. He did use the berm, as he was never gutter trained. I always carried a newspaper to catch the poop so it didn't land on the grass.

Whatever happened to the curb you dog concept; or was that just an NYC thing?

And with regard to the berm as public property thing; a smart dead guy wrote something to the effect that a civilized society requires that a man do more than required, but less than he can. Just some food for thought.

TomR

Tom_R said:
Whatever happened to the curb you dog concept; or was that just an NYC thing?
And with regard to the berm as public property thing; a smart dead guy wrote something to the effect that a civilized society requires that a man do more than required, but less than he can. Just some food for thought.
TomR

But what about a dog? Is he also required to more than required?

I agree with TomR. The law does not fully describe good human behavior. That is etiquette's job, and there will always be a gap between the two.

I put in a fair amount of time, money and sacrifice beautifying my landscaping and berm. I do it out of a sense of pride of property ownership and am more than happy for neighbors to enjoy the view.

So I apologize most profusely for my immutable view that flippantly authorizing your animals to wipe their asses on my begonias makes you douchey, 'cause, yeah it really does.

Robert_Casotto said:
I put in a fair amount of time, money and sacrifice beautifying my landscaping and berm. I do it out of a sense of pride of property ownership and am more than happy for neighbors to enjoy the view.
So I apologize most profusely for my immutable view that flippantly authorizing your animals to wipe their asses on my begonias makes you douchey, 'cause, yeah it really does.

That's bordering really close on a personal attack...

I miss Bobby Darin.

marylago said:

Tom_R said:
Whatever happened to the curb you dog concept; or was that just an NYC thing?
And with regard to the berm as public property thing; a smart dead guy wrote something to the effect that a civilized society requires that a man do more than required, but less than he can. Just some food for thought.
TomR

But what about a dog? Is he also required to more than required?

Well, it's not the dog's decision, right? The owner is the one holding the leash. (That is, unless you're in my neighborhood, where some owners don't use leashes.) You wouldn't let your kid pee on the berm. I hope.

ETA I realize now that's a silly example, because I just suggested the dog pee in the gutter, and you wouldn't let your kid do that either. Probably.

But my point is, you should be equipped to keep your dog from peeing where you don't want him to pee, right? Which tells me you don't care if he pees on those begonias.

I don't have a dog, but I think it's unrealistic to think that dogs are not going to use the berm. And frankly, if I had a dog, I would not let him/her pee on the begonias, but I would not be dragging him or her into the street either. With all the maniac drivers around, that's just a recipe for disaster.