History will judge us

author

I see the photographs now of children " illegals they are called" being held in what look like dog runs,  kennels if you will.  The youngest of children,  tiny little ones held separately from their mothers  I would not argue the need to detain "illegals"...........but it is clearly a cruel act to separate a four year old from his/her mother.  This is not who we are.  Have we descended to such a level that this is acceptable?

We are all familiar with our elected officials,  It is here and it is now.  This is not an abstract thought like global warming.  This is institutional child abuse.  There can be no greater quest than to end this practice.

"Send these the Homeless tempest tossed to me" And if they are judged to  have acted illegally        treat them like the great nation that we are.       

 



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marylago

While it is true that children have been detained, the picture you posted is not.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/toddler-cage-photo/?utm_source=iframely&utm_medium=embed

  • A heart-rending photograph of a crying child in a cage has been widely shared, but it was part of a protest to call attention to immigration practices.

NY Times has an opinion piece today (which I can't find on the website; I got it by email). The op-ed, quoted in part below speaks to children between 10 and 17 being detained.

David Leonhardt

David Leonhardt

Op-Ed Columnist

It’s like a jail for children.

In Brownsville, Tex., the federal government has incarcerated more than 1,400 boys between the ages of 10 and 17. They are being held in a former Walmart, as part of the Trump administration’s new policy of separating parents and children who illegally try to enter the United States.

Still, it's not a good thing.


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author
marylago said:
While it is true that children have been detained, the picture you posted is not.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/toddler-cage-photo/?utm_source=iframely&utm_medium=embed


  • A heart-rending photograph of a crying child in a cage has been widely shared, but it was part of a protest to call attention to immigration practices.
NY Times has an opinion piece today (which I can't find on the website; I got it by email). The op-ed, quoted in part below speaks to children between 10 and 17 being detained.


David Leonhardt

David Leonhardt

Op-Ed Columnist
It’s like a jail for children.
In Brownsville, Tex., the federal government has incarcerated more than 1,400 boys between the ages of 10 and 17. They are being held in a former Walmart, as part of the Trump administration’s new policy of separating parents and children who illegally try to enter the United States.
Still, it's not a good thing.

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/06/06/does-the-u-s-keep-immigrant-children-in-cages/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5f64ed3b6b56


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author

A policy that lacks decency no matter when it started should be eliminated


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marylago

The rest of the op-ed discussed the fact that Merkeley was denied access. Journalists were allowed to tour yesterday. It's posted now.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/14/opinion/casa-padre-immigrant-children-walmart.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fopinion-columnists

I was not saying that they aren't detained, I was noting that it isn't "...the youngest of children,  tiny little ones..." as purported. It's important to keep facts straight so that we may better our arguments and causes.


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LOST

Because keeping facts straight seems to work so well in Trump's America.


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marylago
LOST said:
Because keeping facts straight seems to work so well in Trump's America.

 But that's precisely the point. "We" have to do better.


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LOST
marylago said:


LOST said:
Because keeping facts straight seems to work so well in Trump's America.
 But that's precisely the point. "We" have to do better.

 No, "we" have to win.


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FilmCarp

I am with MaryLago.  We can win.  And we can use facts, not Facebook memes.


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joanne

Hasn’t worked here in many years. I’ve been feeling betrayed by our policy makers and parliamentarians for many years now. LOL 


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Tom

I agree this is a horrific thing we are doing. Those in power who are not fighting this are complicit, in my mind.


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Klinker
Tom_Reingold said:
I agree this is a horrific thing we are doing. Those in power who are not fighting this are complicit, in my mind.

 As Samantha Bee said.....


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cramer

The bible tells me so. 


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LOST

Are we all guilty by doing nothing to stop this?


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Ridley

Well


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drummerboy
LOST said:
Are we all guilty by doing nothing to stop this?

 kinda

This is about the worst thing being done by the Feds right now. Not just separating kids, but also the whole way that ICE operates in their own world, with basically no oversight. Kind of like they were a separate state police force. Kind of like you see (or used to see) in other countries that you'd really rather not compare yourself to.



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drummerboy

here's a good interview on the technical aspects of the policy

https://www.wnyc.org/story/midday-on-wnyc-2018-06-14/


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cramer

Maybe Jill Stein and Susan Sarandon can protest. 

Excuse me, that wasn't helpful.


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author
cramer said:
Maybe Jill Stein and Susan Sarandon can protest. 
Excuse me, that wasn't helpful.

 Why would we need those two to do the work we should be doing?   Have we lost our moral compass also?


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LOST
cramer said:
Maybe Jill Stein and Susan Sarandon can protest. 
Excuse me, that wasn't helpful.

 So be helpful. Suggest something.


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Morganna

This is one of two issues that I'm obsessed with. The other has been the school shootings which despite the initial publicity, has gone quiet.  Since children are at the center of both issues, perhaps Dems can appeal to GOP voters on these topics. They have always represented themselves as the party of family values. This could be a bipartisan topic. To start maybe an appeal to women.

How about a return to the postcard mailings held at the Woodland? My pal printed for a group shortly after the Women's March. Publicize and extend the invitation to families of both parties. The Maplewood turnout was terrific.

Maybe mailings which are more deliberate than tweets, might catch the attention of congress. (Thinking of the dramatic moment in Mr. Smith Goes To Washington).

Marches and vigils are important as well.

Trying to think of something appropriate to boycott.




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cramer
LOST said:


cramer said:
Maybe Jill Stein and Susan Sarandon can protest. 
Excuse me, that wasn't helpful.
 So be helpful. Suggest something.

Any protest has to have the support of church leaders, particularly evangelicals. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Southern Baptist Convention have criticized the policy as has Rev. Franklin Graham. Pressure has to be kept up by these groups in order to see Trump back away from this policy. They are the only groups that have the power to do so since Democrats and Republicans are not going to be able to agree on an immigration policy.  


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Marilyn

For me, first it was the trashing of the environment in our own country. Then it was the shameful lack of help for Puerto Rico after the storms. Now it is the kidnapping of children. This is so unbelievable. I am sickened by this action. When asked, Trump says he doesn't like separating families and blames it all on the democrats. I don't know how anyone can hate and fear refugees this much, not treating them like human beings. 


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nellproart

COME PROTEST!!!!

 Official ACLU Event #FamiliesBelongTogether Rally

Families Belong Together Rally for Father's Day

Sunday, Jun 17 9:00am
Elizabeth Detention Center. 625 Evans Street Elizabeth NJ 07201


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nohero

I guess all the anti-Hillary folks have finally realized that TRUMP IS WORSE. 


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Morganna
nohero said:
I guess all the anti-Hillary folks have finally realized that TRUMP IS WORSE. 

 As I read a few critical remarks about her yesterday, I signed off trying to remember if any other Dem who lost an election was criticized as harshly post election. I can't think of a single candidate  that I have voted for that I found flawless but I voted for the one that seemed like the best choice. I admit to having been excited about the prospect of the first female president. Considering how few women are in any positions of political power, she seemed like a fairly prepared candidate. And as you mention, she was running against Trump. Seems like it would have been a slam dunk.

Sometimes it looks as if the country wasn't ready for a woman. Our loss.


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cramer
cramer said:


LOST said:


cramer said:
Maybe Jill Stein and Susan Sarandon can protest. 
Excuse me, that wasn't helpful.
 So be helpful. Suggest something.
Any protest has to have the support of church leaders, particularly evangelicals. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Southern Baptist Convention have criticized the policy as has Rev. Franklin Graham. Pressure has to be kept up by these groups in order to see Trump back away from this policy. They are the only groups that have the power to do so since Democrats and Republicans are not going to be able to agree on an immigration policy.  

"That practice effectively "weaponizes" children, Archbishop of Miami Thomas Wenski told NPR's Weekend Edition on Saturday. "Basically the administration has, in deciding to separate children from their parents, [tried] to weaponize children, using them as a leverage against the parents applying for their asylum applications."

"Evangelical leader Franklin Graham, son of "America's pastor" Billy Graham and a prominent Trump supporter, told the Christian Broadcasting Network on Tuesday, "It's disgraceful, and it's terrible to see families ripped apart and I don't support that one bit."


"Tony Suarez, a Latino pastor who has informally advised Trump, tweeted, "God have mercy on those who seem so nonchalant to the plight of children being separated from their parents."

Cardinal Daniel DiNardo, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and archbishop of Galveston-Houston in Texas, said in a statement, "Separating babies from their mothers is not the answer and is immoral."

Rabbi Jonah Dov Pesner, director of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism, called it "unconscionable," saying, "Those at the highest levels of the Trump administration are responsible and must provide the public a clear explanation of how this happened and how these families will be reunited."

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/16/620651574/faith-leaders-oppose-trumps-immigration-policy-of-separating-children-from-paren




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BCC
LOST said:


cramer said:
Maybe Jill Stein and Susan Sarandon can protest. 
Excuse me, that wasn't helpful.
 So be helpful. Suggest something.

 I would suggest you have a problem.

Previously, having a child with you was, in effect, having a 'get out of jail card )

That didn't work too well since a great many people never showed up for the 'hearing' set for some time in the future.
The new tougher policy puts illegal border crosssers in jail. In order to maintain family coherence either you set the adults free as in the past, lock the kids up with them, or accept the third unsatisfactory option and make it acceptable ( considering the politics involved, not likely)



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DaveSchmidt
BCC said:


LOST said:

cramer said:
Maybe Jill Stein and Susan Sarandon can protest. 
Excuse me, that wasn't helpful.
 So be helpful. Suggest something.
I would suggest you have a problem.
Previously, having a child with you was, in effect, having a 'get out of jail card )
That didn't work too well since a great many people never showed up for the 'hearing' set for some time in the future.
The new tougher policy puts illegal border crosssers in jail. In order to maintain family coherence either you set the adults free as in the past, lock the kids up with them, or accept the third unsatisfactory option and make it acceptable ( considering the politics involved, not likely)

A few stipulations, and then a question:

1. About 50,000 people from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras sought defensive asylum last year. I don’t know if that number included children, or how many of those individuals brought children with them, but — roughly — let’s say we’re talking about a few tens of thousands.

2. The vast majority of such asylum requests are denied, but a few thousand from those countries do get approved each year.

3. So essentially, in the interest of deterring a few tens of thousands of cases a year, the U.S. has established that the cost of access to its defensive asylum system (in which your odds may be slim, but there is a chance) is this: You give up your children.

Does that sound about right?


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