Hissing Radiators archived
Mar 8, 2007 at 5:32am
Welcome to Maplewood and the never ending saga of heating problems. We moved in September and have been dealing with issues ever since!
Regarding the hissing, we just had all of our valves replaced and that stops the hissing for the most part. It costs about 1K to do the house (give or take a valve or two). The only problem with this is that if you fix one valve and not the others, the others tend to have to overcompensate, which in our case led to water going through the floor to our diing room ceiling. So, we had all the valves replaced last week, and so far the hissing has gone away. There is a loud banging when we turn the heat on, but that is due to the improper installation of our new boiler that had to be replaced even though the other one was only 5 years old. But that's another story...
Regarding your heating bill, we have noticed that we don't need the heat up as high now to get the same results. This week has been very cold but even having the thermostat at 67 is too hot. We have a new boiler though, so not sure how it would compare. Also, we are on a price-fix rate, so our bills won't go down either.
Regarding the hissing, we just had all of our valves replaced and that stops the hissing for the most part. It costs about 1K to do the house (give or take a valve or two). The only problem with this is that if you fix one valve and not the others, the others tend to have to overcompensate, which in our case led to water going through the floor to our diing room ceiling. So, we had all the valves replaced last week, and so far the hissing has gone away. There is a loud banging when we turn the heat on, but that is due to the improper installation of our new boiler that had to be replaced even though the other one was only 5 years old. But that's another story...
Regarding your heating bill, we have noticed that we don't need the heat up as high now to get the same results. This week has been very cold but even having the thermostat at 67 is too hot. We have a new boiler though, so not sure how it would compare. Also, we are on a price-fix rate, so our bills won't go down either.
ciao, I have to pay someone to do this? I was sure I could do it myself as I am enrolled in the DIY crash-course of homeownership. Ugh.
Mar 8, 2007 at 6:05am Edited
First and foremost understand the difference between radiator "valves" and "vents." In a single pipe steam system the valves are the knobs usually near the floor that allow you to turn the radiator essentially on and off. These are always supposed to be all the way open or all the way closed. It is possible for them to break down and leak, but in my opinion unlikely for them all to be failing simultaneously.
The vents are the little things that maybe look like old style steam train whistles that stick out of the other end of the radiator. They are replaceable, they don't cost very much (I think maybe abt $10 each), and it is an easy DIY job. The tricky part is picking the right sizes for each radiator and this is generally called "balancing" the system. Old ones often fail in a number of ways, one of which involves hissing.
So the first thing is to determine the source of the hissing. If it is the vents, you're in luck because it's cheap and easy to fix yourself. If it is the valves, then you're talking about bringing in a plumber and paying a maybe $200 a pop for each replacement -- BUT DO IT if they are leaking, because they're not just leaking steam, you'll probably see they're leaking condensed water too, and dripping back down into the floor and into your walls -- this can cause plaster damage where the water ends up.
Vent leaks generally make a clean hisssss sound that may even have a bit of a whistle to it whereas valve hissing sounds poppy and bubbly kind of like frying bacon.
PS -- also you should NOT have to add water to your boiler tank once a week if your system is sealed properly. You are correct that the hissing is causing the water loss. We had a single valve leaking, it caused plaster damage on the ceiling of the room below, and it meant topping off the boiler tank at least weekly. That fixed, I check the boiler level maybe once a month and have to add a little water maybe every other time and even then it's just to top it off a bit, it's nowhere near tripping the low water cutoff.
The vents are the little things that maybe look like old style steam train whistles that stick out of the other end of the radiator. They are replaceable, they don't cost very much (I think maybe abt $10 each), and it is an easy DIY job. The tricky part is picking the right sizes for each radiator and this is generally called "balancing" the system. Old ones often fail in a number of ways, one of which involves hissing.
So the first thing is to determine the source of the hissing. If it is the vents, you're in luck because it's cheap and easy to fix yourself. If it is the valves, then you're talking about bringing in a plumber and paying a maybe $200 a pop for each replacement -- BUT DO IT if they are leaking, because they're not just leaking steam, you'll probably see they're leaking condensed water too, and dripping back down into the floor and into your walls -- this can cause plaster damage where the water ends up.
Vent leaks generally make a clean hisssss sound that may even have a bit of a whistle to it whereas valve hissing sounds poppy and bubbly kind of like frying bacon.
PS -- also you should NOT have to add water to your boiler tank once a week if your system is sealed properly. You are correct that the hissing is causing the water loss. We had a single valve leaking, it caused plaster damage on the ceiling of the room below, and it meant topping off the boiler tank at least weekly. That fixed, I check the boiler level maybe once a month and have to add a little water maybe every other time and even then it's just to top it off a bit, it's nowhere near tripping the low water cutoff.
EBandJ, welcome to the neighborhood! I grew up in the Land of Forced Air Heat and wouldn't trade my cranky steam for anything.
You might want to start by getting yourself a copy of The Lost Art of Steam Heat ( www.heatinghelp.com ). Although it's WAAAAY more information than most homeowners need, it's a great resource to have in the house.
The next thing to do is develop a relationship with a good plumber as these systems do need periodic tweaking. I'm a Gateway fan, but there are a number of knowledgeable, reliable folks around town.
As far as your current problem with hissing, where's it coming from? The air vent (the little doo-hickey that's screwed onto an upper end of the radiator), or the steam valve (the point where the steam pipe is connected to the radiator)? Constant hissing from either indicates that your system isn't holding pressure and you're likely burning off steam - which might well account for some of the water loss you mention above.
If the constant hissing is coming from an air vent, unscrew it and go get yourself a new one (about $20). They do go bad from time to time and I like to keep a couple of spares in a drawer.
If the hissing is coming from a steam valve - worst case scenario - the valve is shot and needs to be replaced. This generally involves much grunting and swearing and the use of enormous pipe wrenches - call a plumber.
You might want to start by getting yourself a copy of The Lost Art of Steam Heat ( www.heatinghelp.com ). Although it's WAAAAY more information than most homeowners need, it's a great resource to have in the house.
The next thing to do is develop a relationship with a good plumber as these systems do need periodic tweaking. I'm a Gateway fan, but there are a number of knowledgeable, reliable folks around town.
As far as your current problem with hissing, where's it coming from? The air vent (the little doo-hickey that's screwed onto an upper end of the radiator), or the steam valve (the point where the steam pipe is connected to the radiator)? Constant hissing from either indicates that your system isn't holding pressure and you're likely burning off steam - which might well account for some of the water loss you mention above.
If the constant hissing is coming from an air vent, unscrew it and go get yourself a new one (about $20). They do go bad from time to time and I like to keep a couple of spares in a drawer.
If the hissing is coming from a steam valve - worst case scenario - the valve is shot and needs to be replaced. This generally involves much grunting and swearing and the use of enormous pipe wrenches - call a plumber.
If you do replace any vents (not valves) get them from a good plumbing supply store NOT a home store (h. depot or lowes). The free advice you will get on which size to buy, and the better quality of vent, is worth the effort. It is an easy DYI project. I like Maplewood plumbing on Springfield, but I have heard that the one on Newark Way (name?) is very good as well. Also, make sure your system is off and has cooled down and depressurized before removing any vents!!
You are all fantastic - thank you! Keep the good stuff coming! I am home sick this week and plan on going around listening to all the hissing as it happends in order to determine where it's coming from. Here's to hoping it's the vents...
Cheers!
Cheers!
Welcome to the wonderful, wacky world of steam heat. Probably the vents have failed and at least some of them have to be replaced with vents of the correct pressure setting. The vents allow the steam to displace the air in the system so that the radiators heat up. Once the radiator heats up the vent closes and prevents the steam from escaping. The trick is in sizing the vent correctly to the location of the radiator so that steam makes it all the way to the radiators farthest from the boiler.
A steam system is open and some steam is always going to escape the system, which is why you have to add water to the boiler. A side benefit is that the escaped steam tends to keep the humidity in your house up. We moved to a house with hot water heat and the static electricity because of the low humidity because no water escapes makes for a lot of shocks!!!
A steam system is open and some steam is always going to escape the system, which is why you have to add water to the boiler. A side benefit is that the escaped steam tends to keep the humidity in your house up. We moved to a house with hot water heat and the static electricity because of the low humidity because no water escapes makes for a lot of shocks!!!
This is a common question on MOL.
Here's my standard answer.
1) make a sketch of your house noting where the heater is in the basement, then where each radiator is on each floor. Do this floor by floor. (you need this to get an idea how far each radiator is from the heater)
2) go to Maplewood Plumbing on Springfield Ave.
3) they will tell you what sizes you need for each radiator. They all look the same, but they are not.
Those guys are the best and have never steered me wrong or tried to sell me something I did not need. They also take the time to explain everything to you is simple terms. They are a home owners dream come true.
Here's my standard answer.
1) make a sketch of your house noting where the heater is in the basement, then where each radiator is on each floor. Do this floor by floor. (you need this to get an idea how far each radiator is from the heater)
2) go to Maplewood Plumbing on Springfield Ave.
3) they will tell you what sizes you need for each radiator. They all look the same, but they are not.
Those guys are the best and have never steered me wrong or tried to sell me something I did not need. They also take the time to explain everything to you is simple terms. They are a home owners dream come true.
Okay, one more question...
I went around today and listened to all of the radiators to see if they were hissing like a whistle or bubbling like frying bacon, as wnb suggested - great analogy by the way. Most are whistling, three are bubbling in a minor sort of way. Two have no sign of water leaking out of the valve, but the hissing/bubbling sound is definitely coming from the valve. There is a darkening around the wood floor at the base of the valve, which suggests there may have been previous damange, or I'm just not catching it at the right time. None of the floors were wet under the valves. One valve in particular had a little, and I mean a little water at the valve connection under the twist handle, but it wasn't tumbling down to the floor.
Thank you Letters for your stock answer. I think I'll do just what you suggest and just replace all of the vents just to be safe. If the other radiators are still bubbling, I'm going to try and fix it. I know, I know, you all have said to hire a plumber. But I'm telling you the truth, I'm gonna try it on my own first, and THEN call the plumber if I screw it up. I'm stubborn that way.
Finally, I just have to say how amazed I am at everyone's generosity and kindness in sharing their expertise, advise, and personal experiences. Just one more reason I love this little town and am SO glad we found it. THANK YOU for being such great neighbors!
I went around today and listened to all of the radiators to see if they were hissing like a whistle or bubbling like frying bacon, as wnb suggested - great analogy by the way. Most are whistling, three are bubbling in a minor sort of way. Two have no sign of water leaking out of the valve, but the hissing/bubbling sound is definitely coming from the valve. There is a darkening around the wood floor at the base of the valve, which suggests there may have been previous damange, or I'm just not catching it at the right time. None of the floors were wet under the valves. One valve in particular had a little, and I mean a little water at the valve connection under the twist handle, but it wasn't tumbling down to the floor.
Thank you Letters for your stock answer. I think I'll do just what you suggest and just replace all of the vents just to be safe. If the other radiators are still bubbling, I'm going to try and fix it. I know, I know, you all have said to hire a plumber. But I'm telling you the truth, I'm gonna try it on my own first, and THEN call the plumber if I screw it up. I'm stubborn that way.
Finally, I just have to say how amazed I am at everyone's generosity and kindness in sharing their expertise, advise, and personal experiences. Just one more reason I love this little town and am SO glad we found it. THANK YOU for being such great neighbors!
Some hissing from the steam vents is normal as the air is pushed out of the radiator by the steam. Once full, however, the vent should close and the hiss should stop.
One of my radiators gurgles during the middle of the night. Its not coming from the vent. Any ideas?
Not to mention the loud banging which occurs about 5 mins after the boiler kicks on. I can't stomach the bill for fixing that at the present
Jeff
One of my radiators gurgles during the middle of the night. Its not coming from the vent. Any ideas?
Not to mention the loud banging which occurs about 5 mins after the boiler kicks on. I can't stomach the bill for fixing that at the present
Jeff
I like to buy my steam radiator vents at Home Depot. They are cheaper there than in the plumbing supply stores, but the true reason I prefer Home Depot is because their vents have screw-in tops. This allows you to change the vent opening without changing the vent. It makes so easy to balance the system. If a radiator is too cold, switch to a top with a bigger hole. If too hot, put a top with a smaller hole. You can also do "dynamic" balancing of the system, as the techies would call it. When you are not using a room (e.g. the guest room), use a top with a small hole to conserve heat. Just make sure you buy tops with different size openings.
The Home Depot vents may fail sooner than the more expensive vents one can get elsewhere, but they are cheaper, so it all balances out.
Good luck! Be careful not to ruin the threads on the radiators when you replace the vents. I have done that a couple of times and then had to call the plumber to re-thread.
The Home Depot vents may fail sooner than the more expensive vents one can get elsewhere, but they are cheaper, so it all balances out.
Good luck! Be careful not to ruin the threads on the radiators when you replace the vents. I have done that a couple of times and then had to call the plumber to re-thread.
Tom, just like the many others, we moved from Brooklyn, where we didn't even know our neighbors names! We both came to NYC for college, and each bounced around for ten years before ending up in Brooklyn. After doing the "Slope thing" for two years and the "Clinton Hill thing" for two years, we came to this lovely place. I'm originally from central New York State, and LOVE how M'wood reminds me of home. And we don't just know our neighbors, we hang out with them! Go figure.
Thanks for the updates and tips. I'll let you know how I fare...
Thanks for the updates and tips. I'll let you know how I fare...
Plumbers don't like the adjustable valves that mbb mentions. However, they are easy to adjust when balancing the system. The ones we bought at, probably, the old Rickles chain, were still going strong after 18 years when we moved out.
Leaky valves, the thingys with the valve handle down by the floor, are pretty difficult to replace imho and I would recommend a plumber for that job since it is possible to break a pipe in the wall. The vents, located towards the top of the radiator on the side opposite the valve, usually come out pretty easily, or at least that has been my experience. Just remember "lefty loosy, righty tighty" when replacing them. Be careful not to break off the stem. This may require that the stem be drilled out and the hole retapped, which is a job for a plumber.
Leaky valves, the thingys with the valve handle down by the floor, are pretty difficult to replace imho and I would recommend a plumber for that job since it is possible to break a pipe in the wall. The vents, located towards the top of the radiator on the side opposite the valve, usually come out pretty easily, or at least that has been my experience. Just remember "lefty loosy, righty tighty" when replacing them. Be careful not to break off the stem. This may require that the stem be drilled out and the hole retapped, which is a job for a plumber.
Replacing the valves can be a DIY job for someone who is not intimidated by "real" plumbing work. If you look at the thing you will see it is not rocket science, but many are old and crusty and there's always the chance the threads are buggered up or something. I myself paid the man to take care of ours, but it was only one. If I had to do several I'd probably have taken a stab at DIY, but not in the middle of an arctic deep freeze!
Be sure, if you do DIY on that job, that you shim the radiator properly when you're done. That means ensuring that the radiator tilts down towards the valve and pipe assembly (ie, the radiator should not be level). This is so the condensed water can drain back down the steam pipe to the boiler.
BTW jsr, that is the source of your banging problem, it's called "water hammer" I believe, and it can be destructive and should be addressed. If you can figure out which radiator is doing the banging (more difficult than it seems!), prop it up a little bit so the water can drain down properly and it should stop the banging. Small wooden shims work well for this.
Also "a little hissing" is not really normal, it's probably an indicator that the vent is starting to fail. A properly working vent will seal up as soon as the steam hits it and there will be no leaking. That does do away with the "humidifier" benefit of steam heat but it's the way it's supposed to work...
Be sure, if you do DIY on that job, that you shim the radiator properly when you're done. That means ensuring that the radiator tilts down towards the valve and pipe assembly (ie, the radiator should not be level). This is so the condensed water can drain back down the steam pipe to the boiler.
BTW jsr, that is the source of your banging problem, it's called "water hammer" I believe, and it can be destructive and should be addressed. If you can figure out which radiator is doing the banging (more difficult than it seems!), prop it up a little bit so the water can drain down properly and it should stop the banging. Small wooden shims work well for this.
Also "a little hissing" is not really normal, it's probably an indicator that the vent is starting to fail. A properly working vent will seal up as soon as the steam hits it and there will be no leaking. That does do away with the "humidifier" benefit of steam heat but it's the way it's supposed to work...
....and the air escaping through the vent before steam reaches it? Would that make a hissing sound?
And how much steam does it take to close the vent?
Is it an instant reaction?
How hot does an alcohol solution have to get before it expands the bulb?
And how much steam does it take to close the vent?
Is it an instant reaction?
How hot does an alcohol solution have to get before it expands the bulb?
Great. So I've decided to call a plumber to diagnose my problems. The house is old and the previous owners did not keep it up as they should have, so I think it would be best to get an expert to figure it all out and then proceed from there. So my next question, which I'm sure has been asked hundreds of times, any plumber recommendations?
As I mentioned above, I'm a Gateway fan: 973 672 1000 (would you believe I have to look up my husband's cell phone number, but I know Gateway's by heart ? :rolling: )
Gateway. There are cheaper, but no one is better. I hear some are as good. One great thing about Gateway is that they tell you when they'll be there and give you updates if that time changes. Then they are usually early.
Utica, NY - proud home to Saranac beer...mmmm.
Gateway seems to be it - I'll give them a call. Wish me luck!
Gateway seems to be it - I'll give them a call. Wish me luck!
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We are new homeowners, so we don't have experience working with our own heating system. Several weeks ago, I noticed that the heat clicked on at the thermostat, but the boiler didn't fire. After many phone calls to the installer, we figured that the low-water cut-off had been triggered and we needed to fill it up again. Well we fill it up now about once a week! I don't think that's what's supposed to happen. Are we losing water through the hissing radiators? And if so, how do we fix it?
I just found our inspection report from last year, and it does say "the hissing dining room and bedroom radiator valves need to be repaired." Okay, so where are the valves? I referenced my home fix-it book and it's confusing because it states that steam systems are connected at the top of the radiator and hot water systems connect at the base. I have a steam system, so I'm told, but they all connect at the base.
So, how do I stop the hissing and why shouldn't it hiss? I thought it was supposed to do that.
Okay, so I've confessed to my inadequate knowledge of my home and its systems...can someone help me gain this knowledge? And maybe it would reduce our heating bills...HELP!!!!