cul de sac vs. dead end archived
Posted By: Tom ReingoldIs there a difference between a dead end and a cul de sac? Can a street be both at once (without using redundant terms)?
Happy Birthday
There is a difference. They are spelled different.
Seriously, to me a Cul-de-sac is circular (Jennifer Ln, Essex Rd) and a dead-end simply ends (Beach Pl, Headley Place).
I would say that all cul-de-sacs are dead ends. (circular as Woot says) But not all dead ends are cul-de-sacs.
Was that photo taken in Canada (or just over the Canadian border on the US side?) as of course Cul-de-Sac is a French term.
In the UK a dead end is commonly called a cul-de-sac - especially by realtors - maybe it sounds a bit more posh LOL! Our house in Essex, England is in a cul-de-sac, but at the turn-off into our road from the lane there is a minor road sign on a blue background which looks like a letter 'T' - the lower part is in white and the bar at the top of the 'T' is in red. Also known in the Highway Code as a 'No Through Road'.
http://www2.europcar.co.uk/travelcentre/drivingabroad.html#signs (it's at the bottom row in the middle)
In the UK a dead end is commonly called a cul-de-sac - especially by realtors - maybe it sounds a bit more posh LOL! Our house in Essex, England is in a cul-de-sac, but at the turn-off into our road from the lane there is a minor road sign on a blue background which looks like a letter 'T' - the lower part is in white and the bar at the top of the 'T' is in red. Also known in the Highway Code as a 'No Through Road'.
http://www2.europcar.co.uk/travelcentre/drivingabroad.html#signs (it's at the bottom row in the middle)
:smile: One on-line dictionary I just checked defines "cul-de-sac" as "a dead-end street"
I took the picture today at the eastern (northern?) end of Ridgewood Rd in Millburn. So you agree the two signs together are silly?
Posted By: miss_l_toemaybe it sounds a bit more posh LOL!I've always said that rich people live on cul-de-sacs, while poor people live on dead ends.:wink:
I've never understood the term "dead end." It implies the ending of the street isn't functional. The street does end, and perfectly nicely.
And doesn't something have to be alive before it can be dead?
I am going to write to the internets about this ...
And doesn't something have to be alive before it can be dead?
I am going to write to the internets about this ...
Posted By: Tom ReingoldI took the picture today at the eastern (northern?) end of Ridgewood Rd in Millburn. So you agree the two signs together are silly?
See Millburn officials can never make a decision so this is the way they keep everyone happy
Jan 20, 2011 at 2:32pm Edited
Maybe one sign is for the Millburn residents and the other is for the Short Hills residents? :bigsmile:
Posted By: codyMaybe one sign is for the Millburn residents and the other is for the Short Hills residents?
Uh, exactly, because Short Hills residents don't like to admit that they're Millburn residents! :rolling:
If you can keep driving forward, it's a cul de sac. (Think Harrison Ct. or the examples above.)
If you have to turn the car around, it's a dead end.
(As an aside, the plural is culs de sac, which I believe is a medical procedure done under local anaesthetic.)
If you have to turn the car around, it's a dead end.
(As an aside, the plural is culs de sac, which I believe is a medical procedure done under local anaesthetic.)
Posted By: 4val&rosieIf you can keep driving forward, it's a cul de sac.
If you have to turn the car around, it's a dead end.
Right, so no reason to have both signs, as I suspected.
Posted By: 4val&rosieIf you can keep driving forward, it's a cul de sac. (Think Harrison Ct. or the examples above.)
If you have to turn the car around, it's a dead end.
I actually think that Harrison Court is a dead end. The only reason you can keep driving forward is that it intersects an alley. I would agree with the posters above that a cul de sac has a wider, rounded end, often with houses arrayed around it, while a dead end just stops.
That being said, my daughter lives on a block that is called a dead end but it does have a wide/round turnaround area at the end. No houses arrayed around it, however; it ends rather than intersect a highway.
Cul de sac means a fire truck can turn around, dead end means they have to back out.
just covered this in a class at school...
a dead-end road is one with only one point of entry/exit.
a cul-de-sac is a circular feature in a road that allows for a turn-around.
a dead end road may or may not have a cul-de-sac.
a cul-de-sac may or may not be on a dead end road.
typically, cul-de-sacs are found at L-corners and dead-ends.
a dead-end road is one with only one point of entry/exit.
a cul-de-sac is a circular feature in a road that allows for a turn-around.
a dead end road may or may not have a cul-de-sac.
a cul-de-sac may or may not be on a dead end road.
typically, cul-de-sacs are found at L-corners and dead-ends.
According to mommyrock's definition, the area that Tom photographed is indeed a cul de sac (it is rounded at the end for easy turnaround), but it is not, in fact, a dead end (there is more than one point of entry/exit -- you can exit the block by turning onto Mountainview Road, or you can continue onward to the rest of Ridgewood Road where there are multiple intersections with other streets.
Posted By: mommyrockhere's a picture of a cul-de-sac not on a dead-end road..
Fake picture, as everyone knows the ground in not green but white. Just look out your window.
:wink:
Posted By: shoshannahAccording to mommyrock's definition, the area that Tom photographed is indeed a cul de sac (it is rounded at the end for easy turnaround), but it is not, in fact, a dead end (there is more than one point of entry/exit -- you can exit the block by turning onto Mountainview Road, or you can continue onward to the rest of Ridgewood Road where there are multiple intersections with other streets.
It is a dead end. Here is a picture. I shot the picture of the sign standing in the intersection you can see at the lower left corner of the picture. Ridgewood Rd ends near the upper right corner. As you can see, it used to continue across the property that is now B'nai Israel.
So Ridgewood Rd is broken. When they break streets like this, they really should rename one of the segments. The way to get from 762 Ridgewood Rd to 792 Ridgewood Rd is not easy to figure out for a visitor. LOOK AT THIS ROUTE!
mommyrock, you're saying that a cul de sac is a rounded feature of a road that is usually but not always found at the end of a dead end street. The dictionary disagrees with you:
Definition of CUL-DE-SAC
1 a blind diverticulum or pouch
2 a street or passage closed at one end
3 blind alley
See culdesac defined for English-language learners »
Origin of CUL-DE-SAC
French, literally, bottom of the bag
First Known Use: 1738
tom, my explanation is the civil engineering definition. as i understand it, urban planners use the term differently. and historically, it had a different meaning. but given i'm in a civil engineering discipline now, i'm going to side with them. keep in mind that civil engineers are typically the ones who deal in street signs as well. so that would explain why you'd have a sign telling you that the dead end ahead has a cul-de-sac turnaround. example...
http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/1249023/Plate+027/Essex+County+1928+Vol+4/New+Jersey/
Looks like the part of ridgewood road that dead ends/is cul-de-sac'd is much newer than the ridgewood road on the other side of millburn ave.
Looks like the part of ridgewood road that dead ends/is cul-de-sac'd is much newer than the ridgewood road on the other side of millburn ave.
Who really cares? Yes, I know, why did I bother reading? Bored!
Does anyone know if the two parts were ever connected? Did the synagogue buy a section to enlarge their parking lot, and when would that have happened? Komarovsky is correct about the relative ages, though. Ridgewood north of Millburn Ave. is pre-revolutionary, predating the existence of Wyoming Ave., Prospect St. and Springfield Ave. by several generations. The section south of Millburn Ave. probably dates from the 1920's.
I'm curious, Tom, how did this question come up? Were you trying to find the higher address when in your car or on your bike, and were stymied until you referred to (not "referenced" -- pet peeve of mine) a map?
mommyrock, I guess from the point of view of an engineer, what you say makes total sense. Different types of people use different types of jargon. To a biologist, a tomato is a fruit, because of how it grows, but to a dietician or a cook, it's a vegetable, because of how we eat them.
chopin and vermontgolfer, I obsess tenaciously over small details. It gets me in trouble, but it enables me to do my work, too. I'm very good at it, and I'm very thorough. In this case, redundant language is very noticeable in ways that other people don't concern themselves with. I find it jarring when people say things like ATM machine (automated teller machine machine). I am also thrown off when people talk about far off places and point in any direction rather than the correct one. And I CAN'T HELP it when I correct them. For example, you could say you took a vacation in California and point north, and I'd say, "You mean California?" and point west. It's a reflex for me, and it gets me in trouble. I've learned to control it fairly well, but I don't think I'll get it out of my system totally. Sometimes it's helpful.
chopin and vermontgolfer, I obsess tenaciously over small details. It gets me in trouble, but it enables me to do my work, too. I'm very good at it, and I'm very thorough. In this case, redundant language is very noticeable in ways that other people don't concern themselves with. I find it jarring when people say things like ATM machine (automated teller machine machine). I am also thrown off when people talk about far off places and point in any direction rather than the correct one. And I CAN'T HELP it when I correct them. For example, you could say you took a vacation in California and point north, and I'd say, "You mean California?" and point west. It's a reflex for me, and it gets me in trouble. I've learned to control it fairly well, but I don't think I'll get it out of my system totally. Sometimes it's helpful.
Posted By: chopinDoes anyone know if the two parts were ever connected? Did the synagogue buy a section to enlarge their parking lot, and when would that have happened? Komarovsky is correct about the relative ages, though. Ridgewood north of Millburn Ave. is pre-revolutionary, predating the existence of Wyoming Ave., Prospect St. and Springfield Ave. by several generations. The section south of Millburn Ave. probably dates from the 1920's.
Actually, I think its quite a bit newer. Sometime after 1954 and before 1966 I'll bet based on these aerial photos. Looks like the Temple has been there longer than the road.
1954: http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=8.45108567767493E-06&lat=40.7208963253664&lon=-74.2929852872261&year=1954
1966: http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=8.45108567767493E-06&lat=40.7208963253664&lon=-74.2929852872261&year=1966
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Tom_Reingold