Copy of land survey needed archived

Is it possible the county has the survey in a file somewhere, if the town doesn't? Otherwise, maybe the only way to have a survey is to pay some surveyors.

Have you looked through your own copies of the closing documents?
It is usually folded up and in with the other papers.

As kmk said, if you kept a file from your house closing, it should be there.

Getting a mortgage includes getting title insurance, and the title company would have commissioned a survey. Normally, those are not filed in the local municipal building for each transaction. Do you have any information about which title company was involved when you purchased your house?

On second thought, I need to back up. Just because someone at the town hall told you they didn't have it, doesn't prove squat. My experience with the same question at the Maplewood Municipal Building is illuminating. I'm not impressed by either the brainpower or the diligence of the people who work there. A few years ago, I wanted copies of all available documents (lot surveys and building plans) on my recently deceased father's house in town. I asked in the office on the north side of the first floor (I'm not in town and don't remember the actual name of the office). The woman I spoke to initially just had no clue what I was talking about -- it didn't fit into her frame of reference or experience, although you would think anyone who worked in town hall would at least understand the question. After about 10 minutes of trying to rephrase the question, she finally "got" it and sent me upstairs to the town engineers office (if I remember correctly) at the south end of the second floor. There they understood my question, which I put in writing with instructions to contact my sister at the address in question -- ironically one block from town hall. My inquiry promptly disappeared into a black hole with not even a reply that no records could be found. About a year later (this search was for our own enlightenment -- my sister was nowhere near ready to sell the house) my sister tried again for the info. Finally they unearthed the relevant documents.

An even more disturbing story of bureaucratic bungling was related to me by a friend here in St. Louis who is second in command in the office that deals with historic preservation in St. Louis County. The County no longer includes the City of St. Louis (it seceded in 1876 to become an "independent city"), but it has been the most populous county in the state since about 1960, stabilizing at 1,000,000 people, which is three times the present population of the City. It is one of the original counties of the state, and its settlement history, if not the existing buildings, goes back to 1764. My friend needs the kind of records under discussion to do the research called for in documenting and preserving historic buildings, neighborhoods, and landscapes. It seems that, not too long ago, when the county was moving such records to a newer building, the woman in charge of the building permit section decided that most past records were no longer to be kept and ordered 240 years of records to be trucked off to the dump. Maybe she thought the only important records were the building permits or other property documents of buildings still in the process of construction. God only knows. My friend only discovered this accidentally, when searching for a particular document. An attempt was made to retrieve items from the dump, but I heard that not much was salvageable. Also last I heard, criminal charges were being considered.

As kmk and nohero stated you should have the survey with your closing docs.

However the township has a copy somewhere. Recently we got in touch with the township tree department (Mr Lamm?) about 2 dead trees near the back of our lot. I felt that they were not on our property and wanted township confirmation. Mr Lamm came and put his GPS unit on the trees in question, consulted his copy of the survey and determined that they were not on our property.

Good luck.

Posted By: wedjetAs kmk and nohero stated you should have the survey with your closing docs.

However the township has a copy somewhere.

Just to clarify - the Township may have a survey copy, from when the home was built.

However, for later transactions, surveys are not filed with the municipalities (unless there are additions to the building(s) on the property, which needed new permits). So, not all properties have a good, current survey on file in town.

nohero, in your experience would the surveys have changed since the house was built? Our house was built in 1970.

It shouldn't have changed for your house, but sometimes the neighbors do stuff which (should) show up on the surveys. Also, it may not be easy to find survey information in town records.

Your lawyer probably kept a copy with his file. However, if the sale took place a while ago he probably has moved the file to dead storage and may not be able to find it quickly or at all. Trust me, I have a lot of experience in trying to recover warehoused files.

What was the name of the Surveyor?

There is a fair chance that someone on MOL may be able to track him/ her down or tell you the successor company.

there is a copy of the survey in your title insurance - a policy would have been mailed to you after the closing. In addition if you have a mortgage, a copy of the title policy should have been sent to the mortgage company so they should also have a copy.

Also a copy of the description (but generally not the survey) is filed as part of your mortgage at the Essex County Register of Deeds and Mortgages which is located in Newark.

Good luck

Not a formal survey but the real property tax record card in the assessor's office should show property lines.

Hill_16, thank you for that information. That is what I was looking for. The whole search has gotten even stinkier. Town Hall did do a search for a survey since the Air conditioning unit we are REPLACING should already have had a survey and permit on file. There is no survey, and turns out no Permit on file for the work either. The surveyor is still in business because his e-mail and voice mail say the name of the company. I have even spoken to him, but he does not call me back with information. (I reached him on a cell phone and he had to call me back). Since our attorney referred us to the surveyor, I have called them for a copy (should be in their file) but they are not returning my calls either. Since the Attorney was referred to me by our realtor, I called her to see if she could get in touch and help out. Actually, I called to let her know how mysterious all these things were becoming, since she referred us and one referral begat another. I have since learned that the NJ office of the law firm has shut down and the phone number forwards to a NY office.

Oh, the other problem is that our original Mortgage company sold our mortgage to someone else, and they went bankrupt, so now we are just held by a servicing company.

I have a copy of the Description of the property, but no actual survey.

the description you have may have the name of the title company on it (check the bottom) - if not the description filed with the mortgage at the register of deeds likely will. Then you can call the title company and get a copy of the policy and/or survey. Good luck

Have you tried the hall of records in newark? I thought that's where all that sort of paperwork was filed? (and not at the local level, unless you're getting a permit or something that would require you to prove setback or something)

A second vote for hill_16's advice.

If you were sent a copy of the Title Insurance Policy the name of the Title Agent should appear somewhere on it. (Remember the Underwriter, i.e. "Chicago Title, Lawyers Title, First American etc. is not the agency.)

If, as sometimes happens, your attorney did not send you a copy of the Policy, the name of the Title Agent may appear at the bottom of the legal description page in your Deed. This is because many attorneys just photocopy of page prepared by the Title Agent and attach it to the Deed and/or Mortgage. In addition, the Title Agent's file number sometimes appears on the page.

The Title Agent is required to keep that file for a while.

Also, tell the surveyor that if does not assist you, then you will file a complaint with the State that he never sent you one.

Posted By: wedjet
However the township has a copy somewhere. Recently we got in touch with the township tree department (Mr Lamm?) about 2 dead trees near the back of our lot. I felt that they were not on our property and wanted township confirmation. Mr Lamm came and put his GPS unit on the trees in question, consulted his copy of the survey and determined that they were not on our property.

Good luck.

wedjet, the township would have a copy of your survey if work was performed that required that a copy be furnished or if the home was built within the last 50ish years. Otherwise, Mr. Lamm was using the filed tax map as his guide, not your survey.

babymakes3: the surveyor is probably worried that you are going to use the survey to sell the property and give the purchasers a survey affidavit of no change. Surveyors hate this because it reduces the amount of work they get. NTL, I'd be persistent. Write them a letter. They are governed by the State Board of Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors and you may wish to tell them that their failure to comply with their request will result in you reporting their failure to the State.

Also, good luck.