Catholic Church Tells Bishops There is No Obligation to Report Child Abuse to Police/Authorities
I'm not sure that Pope Francis would agree with Anatrella. Beyond that, however, I am astounded that Anatrella would make such a remark. I guess the Catholic Church still doesn't get it.
yahooyahoo said:
Not acceptable.
http://www.newsweek.com/vatican-sex-abuse-bishops-425509
"The Vatican has told new Catholic bishops that they have no obligation to report clerical child abuse, according to reports.
During a presentation for newly appointed bishops, French Monsignor Tony Anatrella said they don’t have a duty to report abuse because it should be the responsibility of victims and their families to go to the police. The comments were first reported by John L. Allen at the Catholic news site Cruxnow.com earlier this week."
kthnry said:
I wonder if any of them saw Spotlight.
Yes.
http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-italy-vatican-spotlight-20160204-story.html
This has come out so publicly because Cardinal Pell has been vigorously resisting returning to Australia to face questioning in front of a long-running Royal Commission into Insitutional Child Abuse. His actions and responses as senior priest and Archbishop have been called into question for decades by victims and families, he has always managed to squirm away from the spotlight, and our former PM fiercely defended his 'Divine right' to shirk a citizen's duty to appear when summoned by a Royal Commissioner. It's absolutely sickening.
Look it up. He's now claiming to be so sick he can't even face easy questioning on factual matters via Skype.
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/08/george-pell-cleared-to-give-sex-abuse-royal-commission-evidence-by-video-link The Skype thing has dragged on for a couple of weeks, the 'can't/won't come back' for about 8 months. this time last year he was definitely going to say something 'when the time is right'... A few months before that, it was a toss-up between the 'dignity of the Church' and 'in fairness to these poor souls do we really need to churn this all up again now?'.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/28/cardinal-george-pell-apologises-to-victims-of-sexual-abuse
tjohn said:
I'm not sure that Pope Francis would agree with Anatrella. Beyond that, however, I am astounded that Anatrella would make such a remark. I guess the Catholic Church still doesn't get it.
If you read the article, it seems pretty clear that the remarks represent the opinion of Anatrella, and are not official Vatican policy. It will be important to see if and how the Pope responds.
the advice was presented in a training course. Sounds pretty formal and endorsed.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-12/anger-over-vatican-bishop-training/7164636
joanne said:
the advice was presented in a training course. Sounds pretty formal and endorsed.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-12/anger-over-vatican-bishop-training/7164636
Well, it wasn't endorsed.
..."A Vatican source told Newsweek that the comments made during the presentation are Anatrella’s opinion and not an official Vatican position."...
"The Catholic League, a Catholic civil rights organization, also said the comments made by Anatrella were solely his opinion, and a Vatican spokesman, Father Federico Lombardi, said they were not in any way—as someone has mistakenly interpreted—a new Vatican document or a new instruction or new ‘guidelines’ for bishops.”...
...Anatrella’s comments appear to be at odds with efforts made by the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors, which held a week-long meeting earlier this month. The proposals from the commission, which will be sent to Pope Francis for his consideration, include “a request for him to remind all authorities in the Church of the importance of responding directly to victims and survivors who approach him,” the Vatican said in a press release...
The article I linked with quotes different commentators, doesn't quote Newsweek, notes the lack of presence of the new specialist resources within the Vatican and also points out that probably the advice is designed for poorer nations with fewer resources or less reliable police forces. It also points out the Vatican has declined to comment.
I believe that the Church has recently committed itself to reporting abuse to legal authorities in this country, so this training wouldn't be at all consistent with that policy.
That's the thing: it's out of step with what's happening in the US, with the mood here (but there are great defenders of the old style, and Pell is one of them) and with what the Pope has said. Yet, soon after he took steps to change matters, this training took place.
In the areas I grew up in (2 towns)....a priest was caught, suddenly moved out of the area...but quietly moved back to the state and another position about a half hour away from the original parish....he has since died..
in the 2nd town, a priest was accused..I don't remember the details..i think that one was about 10 years ago.....there was also a priest who came from that town, but worked elsewhere in NJ that was accused, took a plea deal.....and was supposed to stay away from kids...but the church repeatedly assigned him to positions working primarily with kids...
Can they fire him? How does that work? If I went to the media and gave that statement I'd be fired. From a cannon. Into the sun.
An incredibly common theme, across most faiths and positions of trust and authority. Very sad. (Which sounds trite - for which tone I do apologise.)
Here's the Crux article on that training for Bishops:
http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2016/02/07/what-new-catholic-bishops-are-and-arent-being-told-on-sex-abuse/
If I worked for a big company and gave incorrect legal advice at an official training session for employees that was against company policy, I would get fired.
mjh said:
joanne said:
the advice was presented in a training course. Sounds pretty formal and endorsed.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-12/anger-over-vatican-bishop-training/7164636
Well, it wasn't endorsed.
..."A Vatican source told Newsweek that the comments made during the presentation are Anatrella’s opinion and not an official Vatican position."...
"The Catholic League, a Catholic civil rights organization, also said the comments made by Anatrella were solely his opinion, and a Vatican spokesman, Father Federico Lombardi, said they were not in any way—as someone has mistakenly interpreted—a new Vatican document or a new instruction or new ‘guidelines’ for bishops.”...
...Anatrella’s comments appear to be at odds with efforts made by the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors, which held a week-long meeting earlier this month. The proposals from the commission, which will be sent to Pope Francis for his consideration, include “a request for him to remind all authorities in the Church of the importance of responding directly to victims and survivors who approach him,” the Vatican said in a press release...
Although I think it is wrong for a Bishop not to report a child abuse and/or sex crime to the police, I think it takes some of the power away from the Catholic Church and into the hands of the congregants. If a parishioner believes that the right person to tell is a priest or a Bishop, it elevates the priest and the Bishop, and enables secrecy to happen more easily. If parishioners are told that the police are the people to whom abuse should be reported, it means the priest and Bishops are ordinary rather than elevated.
lisat said:
Although I think it is wrong for a Bishop not to report a child abuse and/or sex crime to the police, I think it takes some of the power away from the Catholic Church and into the hands of the congregants. If a parishioner believes that the right person to tell is a priest or a Bishop, it elevates the priest and the Bishop, and enables secrecy to happen more easily. If parishioners are told that the police are the people to whom abuse should be reported, it means the priest and Bishops are ordinary rather than elevated.
Actually, if the policy of the presentation puts the Bishops above the law where the law specifies you have to report. This has nothing to do who the parents report to. It has to do with Bishops being "trained" that they have no obligation to report.
We can talk about what Francis publicly states but the defacto Vatican policy still seems to be "keep it in the church."
The formerly esteemed Cardinal-Bishop of Boston was quickly moved to the Vatican where he's living a comfortable life, never being required to return to the US for his actions.
Then we have the above example of Cardinal Pell being protected, not being forced to face any music.
In the issue of any other school or child welfare organisation, thee are specific policies on reporting, which include parental reporting activities, all the way to the top of the organisation. Our Royal Commission has had the Salvation Army, Bernardo's, the Anglican and other churches, various Orders of the Catholic Church including other Archbishops, and even heads of government departments before it. Why is it OK for the Catholic Church in Rome, and not for, say, the Orthodox Patriarch to excuse their Bishops the duty of reporting an incident of child abuse if this is the law of the land?
Why is it OK for the media to tear strips off, orthodox chasidic Jews seeking to handle such matters within their community, but not apply those same standards of ridicule, impatience and disbelief to authorities within the Catholic Church?
Over the course of our Royal Commission we've seen both. Community patience has worn very thin. Our expectation of a higher standard in corporate behaviour has never been stronger. Especially when it appears that here our Anglican Church hierarchy is still harbouring highly placed individuals who preach a female's 'place' is to do a male's bidding.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-12/prefects-anger-over-archbishops-address/7164568
That the Vatican has not seen fit to kick Anatralla's sorry ass out of Rome, says volumes.
He should be ministering to lepers on some forgotten island.
But there is something that leaped out at me like a sharp stick in the eye.
“According to the state of civil laws of each country where reporting is obligatory, it is not necessarily the duty of the bishop to report suspects to authorities, the police or state prosecutors in the moment when they are made aware of crimes or sinful deeds,” the training document, which was released by the Vatican earlier this month, reads. The document says bishops are required only to report the suspected abuse internally.
To me it sounds very much as if his advice on reporting was in a training document issued by the Vatican, and now that there is a backlash, they are back pedaling to create distance from something embarrassing.
As for what it means, it is a total cop out on the part of the church hierarchy. It pushes responsibility for reporting off on the parents or minors. How is it morally acceptable to tell bishops they don't have to report a crime that has come to their attention??
Yes, he should be fired, but probably won't be. And meanwhile, even if the Pope wasn't aware, if the Vatican released a training document with that language in it, they need to own it. At the very least, they need to condemn it, which they don't seem to be doing.
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
That the Vatican has not seen fit to kick Anatralla's sorry ass out of Rome, says volumes.
He should be ministering to lepers on some forgotten island.
Or Ratzinger's.
I won't post the clip, I don't wish to upset anyone. However, the mood in Ballarat, Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane and I gather many places in your area is beautifully summed up by Tim Minchin. Please donate after watching the clip, 'Come Home (Cardinal Pell)'.
It was written independently of a project it's now supporting, crowdfunding survivors flying to Rome to sit with Pell as he gives his testimony via teleconference at the end of the month... I believe the gofundme fund is now around $100k (after about 2 or 2.5 days). Of course, many of us believe Pell will find yet another way to postpone...it's just like Christopher Skase ripping off investors in the 1990s...
Not acceptable.
http://www.newsweek.com/vatican-sex-abuse-bishops-425509
"The Vatican has told new Catholic bishops that they have no obligation to report clerical child abuse, according to reports.
During a presentation for newly appointed bishops, French Monsignor Tony Anatrella said they don’t have a duty to report abuse because it should be the responsibility of victims and their families to go to the police. The comments were first reported by John L. Allen at the Catholic news site Cruxnow.com earlier this week."