BLM Policy Goals

I read about the Black Lives Matter Policy Goals.  Here they are:

• Ending "broken windows" policing, which aggressively polices minor crimes in an attempt to stop larger ones
• using community oversight for misconduct rather than having police decide what consequences officers face
• making standards for reporting police use of deadly force
• independently investigating and prosecuting police misconduct
• having the racial makeup of police departments reflect the communities they serve
• requiring officers to wear body cameras
• providing more training for police officers
• ending for-profit policing practices
• ending the police use of military equipment
• implementing police union contracts that hold officers accountable for misconduct

I agree with all of this.  The only one I'm not sure about is 5th one.  They should hire the best people they can get.  Though logically over time I'd expect that to line up with a community's demographics.

Well done, if this is actually the platform!

terp said:

I read about the Black Lives Matter Policy Goals.  Here they are:

• Ending "broken windows" policing, which aggressively polices minor crimes in an attempt to stop larger ones
• using community oversight for misconduct rather than having police decide what consequences officers face
• making standards for reporting police use of deadly force
• independently investigating and prosecuting police misconduct
• having the racial makeup of police departments reflect the communities they serve
• requiring officers to wear body cameras
• providing more training for police officers
• ending for-profit policing practices
• ending the police use of military equipment
• implementing police union contracts that hold officers accountable for misconduct

I agree with all of this.  The only one I'm not sure about is 5th one.  They should hire the best people they can get.  Though logically over time I'd expect that to line up with a community's demographics.

Well done, if this is actually the platform!

Ending broken windows policing?  I would start by asking a community how they want to be policed.

Community oversight for misconduct?  How exactly does this work?

It's certainly a starting point for reform. I got stuck on the same two as tjohn. I'm guessing that they want to stop the abuse that much "broken-windows policing" engenders. Originally, broken windows was built on the theory that crime is drawn to decrepit areas, therefore we should make to avoid developing that kind of atmosphere. Unfortunately, it became "pull over every black male for any minor infraction, real or imagined."

terp said:

I read about the Black Lives Matter Policy Goals.  Here they are:

• Ending "broken windows" policing, which aggressively polices minor crimes in an attempt to stop larger ones
• using community oversight for misconduct rather than having police decide what consequences officers face
• making standards for reporting police use of deadly force
• independently investigating and prosecuting police misconduct
• having the racial makeup of police departments reflect the communities they serve
• requiring officers to wear body cameras
• providing more training for police officers
• ending for-profit policing practices
• ending the police use of military equipment
• implementing police union contracts that hold officers accountable for misconduct

I agree with all of this.  The only one I'm not sure about is 5th one.  They should hire the best people they can get.  Though logically over time I'd expect that to line up with a community's demographics.

Well done, if this is actually the platform!

They can hire the best person AND reflect the racial makeup of the community.  Its not either/or.   It is just a function of doing the right targeted outreach to reach more diverse candidates and to generate a large pool and then drilling down from there.

tjohn said:
Ending broken windows policing?  I would start by asking a community how they want to be policed.

Community oversight for misconduct?  How exactly does this work?

Read Ghettoside: A True Story of Murder in America, journalist Jill Leovy's book investigating the ongoing epidemic of Black men killing other Black men in South Central LA.  

Leovy  documents the pattern of the American government cracking down hard on Black men for minor infractions while leaving them to kill each other without punishment in every major city, barely even trying to solve these murders, and therefore encouraging lawlessness and more violence and murder. The percentage of Black homicides that actually get solved is not much higher than it was in the Jim Crow South.

Leovy writes:

"The failure of the law to stand up for Black people when they are hurt or killed by others has been masked by a whole universe of ruthless, relatively cheap and easy preventive strategies. Our fragmented and underfunded police forces have historically preoccupied themselves with control, prevention, and nuisance abatement, rather than responding to victims of violence. ...

Many critics today complain that the criminal justice system is heavy-handed and unfair to minorities. We hear a great deal about capital punishment, excessively punitive drug laws, supposed misuse of eyewitness evidence, troublingly high levels of black male incarceration, and so forth. So to assert that Black Americans suffer from too little application of the law, not too much, seems at odds with common perception. But the perceived harshness of American criminal justice and its fundamental weakness are in reality two sides of a coin, the former a kind of poor compensation for the latter. Like the schoolyard bully, our criminal justice system harasses people on small pretexts but is exposed as a coward before murder. it hauls masses of black men through its machinery but fails to protect them from bodily injury and death. it is at once oppressive and inadequate."

Anyway, it's an excellent and very readable book and I highly recommend it.  I think it totally supports the policy goal of BLM to end the "broken windows" approach to community policing.

http://www.policemisconduct.net/explainers/civilian-review-boards/

tjohn said:

terp said:

I read about the Black Lives Matter Policy Goals.  Here they are:

• Ending "broken windows" policing, which aggressively polices minor crimes in an attempt to stop larger ones
• using community oversight for misconduct rather than having police decide what consequences officers face
• making standards for reporting police use of deadly force
• independently investigating and prosecuting police misconduct
• having the racial makeup of police departments reflect the communities they serve
• requiring officers to wear body cameras
• providing more training for police officers
• ending for-profit policing practices
• ending the police use of military equipment
• implementing police union contracts that hold officers accountable for misconduct

I agree with all of this.  The only one I'm not sure about is 5th one.  They should hire the best people they can get.  Though logically over time I'd expect that to line up with a community's demographics.

Well done, if this is actually the platform!

Ending broken windows policing?  I would start by asking a community how they want to be policed.

Community oversight for misconduct?  How exactly does this work?

the issue with "broken windows policing" is there's no evidence it actually works

http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/oignypd/downloads/pdf/Quality-of-Life-Report-2010-2015.pdf

While it is not possible to know conclusively whether quality-of-life summonses and misdemeanor arrests impact violent crime, OIG-NYPD, after a months-long analysis of six years of summons, arrest, and complaint data over time, can now state: OIG-NYPD’s analysis has found no empirical evidence demonstrating a clear and direct link between an increase in summons and misdemeanor arrest activity and a related drop in felony crime. Between 2010 and 2015, quality-of-life enforcement ratesand in particular, quality-of-life summons rates have dramatically declined, but there has been no commensurate increase in felony crime. While the stagnant or declining felony crime rates observed in this six-year time frame may be attributable to NYPD’s other disorder reduction strategies or other factors, OIG-NYPD finds no evidence to suggest that crime control can be directly attributed to quality-of-life summonses and
misdemeanor arrests. This finding should not be over-generalized to preclude the use of summonses and misdemeanor arrests for the purpose of targeted crime and disorder reduction, but given the costs of summons and misdemeanor arrest activity, the lack of a demonstrable direct link suggests that NYPD needs to carefully evaluate how quality-of-life summonses and misdemeanor arrests fit into its overall strategy for disorder reduction and crime control.

ml1 said:

the issue with "broken windows policing" is there's no evidence it actually works

http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/oignypd/downloads/pdf/Quality-of-Life-Report-2010-2015.pdf

.........and a few people every year end up dead for crimes like selling CDs or having a broken tail light.

Whoops.

mjh said:

ml1 said:

the issue with "broken windows policing" is there's no evidence it actually works

http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/oignypd/downloads/pdf/Quality-of-Life-Report-2010-2015.pdf

.........and a few people every year end up dead for crimes like selling CDs or having a broken tail light.

Whoops.

Fine.  For which traffic and vehicle code violations should a police officer issue a ticket?  How do you reconcile this with the fact that low-income people are more likely to have problems with their cars because they can't afford the constant maintenance?

am I the only one who thinks "broken tail light" usually means an after-the-fact justification for stopping someone for dubious reasons?

ml1 said:

am I the only one who thinks "broken tail light" usually means an after-the-fact justification for stopping someone for dubious reasons?

For which traffic and vehicle code violations should a police officer issue a ticket?  How do you reconcile this with the fact that low-income people are more likely to have problems with their cars because they can't afford the constant maintenance?

citations for broken tail light, worn out wipers, or anything else in which a vehicle is in violation can be mailed to the owner of the vehicle. Run the plate, take a photo, send the ticket.

tjohn said:

ml1 said:

am I the only one who thinks "broken tail light" usually means an after-the-fact justification for stopping someone for dubious reasons?

For which traffic and vehicle code violations should a police officer issue a ticket?  How do you reconcile this with the fact that low-income people are more likely to have problems with their cars because they can't afford the constant maintenance?

What if the owner doesn't respond to the citation?

ml1 said:

citations for broken tail light, worn out wipers, or anything else in which a vehicle is in violation can be mailed to the owner of the vehicle. Run the plate, take a photo, send the ticket.

tjohn said:

ml1 said:

am I the only one who thinks "broken tail light" usually means an after-the-fact justification for stopping someone for dubious reasons?

For which traffic and vehicle code violations should a police officer issue a ticket?  How do you reconcile this with the fact that low-income people are more likely to have problems with their cars because they can't afford the constant maintenance?

tjohn said:

What if the owner doesn't respond to the citation?

ml1 said:

citations for broken tail light, worn out wipers, or anything else in which a vehicle is in violation can be mailed to the owner of the vehicle. Run the plate, take a photo, send the ticket.

tjohn said:

ml1 said:

am I the only one who thinks "broken tail light" usually means an after-the-fact justification for stopping someone for dubious reasons?

For which traffic and vehicle code violations should a police officer issue a ticket?  How do you reconcile this with the fact that low-income people are more likely to have problems with their cars because they can't afford the constant maintenance?

this happens today.   there are penalties for non response up to and including fines, liens on income and license suspensions.  

it would be "nice", meaning if only reality could reflect, that these types of violations were meted out no matter the race of the violator.  

I doubt the authenticity of the "pulled over for bad tail light" "pulled over for failing to signal",  "pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt" excuses in many cases.  

have to commend @terp for starting this thread.  

handing the person a ticket isn't any guarantee that he/she will respond to the citation either.

tjohn said:

What if the owner doesn't respond to the citation?

ml1 said:

citations for broken tail light, worn out wipers, or anything else in which a vehicle is in violation can be mailed to the owner of the vehicle. Run the plate, take a photo, send the ticket.

tjohn said:

ml1 said:

am I the only one who thinks "broken tail light" usually means an after-the-fact justification for stopping someone for dubious reasons?

For which traffic and vehicle code violations should a police officer issue a ticket?  How do you reconcile this with the fact that low-income people are more likely to have problems with their cars because they can't afford the constant maintenance?

hoops said:

I doubt the authenticity of the "pulled over for bad tail light" "pulled over for failing to signal",  "pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt" excuses in many cases.  

to be blunt, I assume MOST of the "bad tail light" stops are total BS excuses for pulling someone over who looks "suspicious."

ml1 said:

hoops said:

I doubt the authenticity of the "pulled over for bad tail light" "pulled over for failing to signal",  "pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt" excuses in many cases.  

to be blunt, I assume MOST of the "bad tail light" stops are total BS excuses for pulling someone over who looks "suspicious."

And these BS excuses for pulling over are also used to justify searches. 

My spouse was driving to work 15 years ago, and was pulled over for "not wearing a seatbelt"  (which he actually was wearing... as he always does). The officer then proceeded to search his backpack and the trunk of the car. Because, ya know... he was suspicious because he was "not wearing a seat belt"... (which he was).

In NYC, the Right to Know Act comprises two bills before New York City Council: 

1.  Requires police to provide identification during a stop, and the reason for a stop

2.  Requires police to inform people that they have a right to refuse a search without probable cause, and to obtain evidence of consent.  

Hundreds of community groups and thousands of people have been organizing for years for these laws. 

But the City Council just tabled it (even though they had the votes) because a side-deal was made with the police department (Bratton) that allows him to implement these measures as he see fit, without the force of law. 

Some of this has been covered.  I would like to comment on the 2 items thst have been challenged.  

The Broken Window issue:  I think thag ml1 may be right that this may often be an excuse to make a stop and fish for a more serious infraction.   Even when it is not, I'm not sure we want it to go much further than a quick citation.  If the police are public servants, I would venture that things like broken tail lights should be met with a freindly heads up and perhaps a warning.  Subsequently,  if say a week later the same car is stopped perhaps a small fine.  

 Community oversight:  I think we're getting more to the core of the issue.  I am on a mobile device, so I'm not going to go to the trouble of linking it, but there was a longstanding thread on this board titled "police state" in which numerous police abuses were posted.  Most of these abuses were handled internally and the officer typically got a slap on the wrist.   People are getting pissed.  Make no mistake.  This affects us all.  The BLM has taken the lead, but if you read the policy proposal, it would change the relationship between the police and all people.  I really have to commend them for this.

I know some people will take this as police bashing, but its not.  Police are like the rest of us.  The vast majority are good people.  That being said we have a situation where police have some special rights.  It is human nature that they will behave in a tribal nature.  There have been studies on this.   If we can break down some of the barriers and make them accountable this will alleviate anger against them.  Thus, there will be no blowback.   Bad police behavior will be punished.  But that is justice.  Police are supposed to stand for justice.

Philando Castile was pulled over while driving at least 52 times by police in the past few years. Does anyone think he wasn't being profiled? 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/us/philando-castile-minnesota-police-shooting.html?hpw&rref=us&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well

And, in many ways, her son thrived here. As a teenager, she said, Mr. Castile took jobs fixing bikes and working at Blockbuster and Target stores. Not long after graduating from St. Paul public schools, he went to work for the school district in nutrition services, eventually earning a promotion to supervisor, the affection of the children and the name Mr. Phil from the students he served. “He loved his job,” Valerie Castile said. “He was an all-around good kid. He never got in trouble with me.”

But on the roadways, he found himself in trouble frequently. Of the 52 cases against him in the state’s court records system, all appeared traffic-related. Many were dismissed, some resulted in convictions, and none were for violations more serious than a misdemeanor.

Valerie Castile said she believed her son was targeted for the type of car he preferred — older ones that she said the police stereotyped as belonging to drug dealers — and the color of his skin.

terp said:


I know some people will take this as police bashing, but its not.  Police are like the rest of us.  The vast majority are good people.  That being said we have a situation where police have some special rights.  It is human nature that they will behave in a tribal nature.  There have been studies on this.   If we can break down some of the barriers and make them accountable this will alleviate anger against them.  Thus, there will be no blowback.   Bad police behavior will be punished.  But that is justice.  Police are supposed to stand for justice.

agree. I don't blame the police for a lot of these issues. We the people, through our courts, have spoken pretty clearly that we value our safety so much that we are going to allow our police very wide latitude. The courts give the police all sorts of powers to randomly stop almost anyone at any time on the flimsiest of pretexts. In fact, if the stops can be shown to be truly random, the police pretty much don't need to have a specific reason for stopping you -- e.g., random bag checks in the NY Subway, or any late night DUI checkpoint.

so we the people have given the police these powers -- why should we be surprised if they use them to stop otherwise innocent people. In defense of the police, they are doing what we want them to do.

So if people care about their rights and the potential for police misconduct, they should realize that they need to stop supporting the policies that lead to potential misconduct.

terp said:

I read about the Black Lives Matter Policy Goals.  Here they are:

• Ending "broken windows" policing, which aggressively polices minor crimes in an attempt to stop larger ones
• using community oversight for misconduct rather than having police decide what consequences officers face
• making standards for reporting police use of deadly force
• independently investigating and prosecuting police misconduct
• having the racial makeup of police departments reflect the communities they serve
• requiring officers to wear body cameras
• providing more training for police officers
• ending for-profit policing practices
• ending the police use of military equipment
• implementing police union contracts that hold officers accountable for misconduct

I agree with all of this.  The only one I'm not sure about is 5th one.  They should hire the best people they can get.  Though logically over time I'd expect that to line up with a community's demographics.

Well done, if this is actually the platform!

I am surprised to find that I have a problem with most of the platform as stated and would like to see all of the points modified or rethought for the reasons given below.  

#1. I have no problem with broken windows as long as it is applied equally to all. When one group is singled out due to profiling, then I have a problem with the technique.  Ideally, police forces using this tactic should keep records on how well it works and discontinue if it is ineffective or counter productive.

#2.  Who would provide the community oversight?  Police don't make the laws, they enforce them.  Again, I have no problem with enabling police to do their job unless the job is being performed unequally.  If the laws appear to be ineffective or unfair, then the law makers are the ones who have to adjust accordingly.

#3.  No problem provided police use of deadly force standards are clearly set and applied equally to the entire population.

#4.  Proceed with caution!  Who would provide the monitoring/investigation and who would monitor/investigate the monitors/investigators?  This is the sort of thing that can get out of hand very quickly and negatively impact on the ability of the police departments to do their job.  Is a neutral official body such as the Civilian Complaint Review Board in NYC envisioned or more of a network of grass roots organizations who may have their own agenda?  

#5.  There is some advantage to this in communities where cultural differences or primary language other than English become a factor in establishing rapport with the community served.  Otherwise, I would favor a merit and fitness approach.

#6.Mixed feelings on this one.  Perhaps wearing body cameras that actually work would be an improvement.  Even then, camera angles can be misleading.  Using a body camera as part of a reviewable record could be helpful in establishing objectivity in application of law enforcement within the broader community.

#7. Simply requiring more training time is not the answer.  Developing an effective training program, requiring officers to take the training including refresher courses/updates, and taking action if officers do not complete the training satisfactorily is what is needed.  There needs to be more emphasis on community policing and use of techniques that are less likely to escalate potential for violence.

#8. Not sure what this means.  Private security firms perhaps?  If so, private security firms may have their place but these officers need to receive pay commensurate with their duties, need to meet the same qualification requirements as police officers, need to receive the same training as police officers, and need to be held as accountable for their actions.

#9.  Day to day police activities should not require need for military equipment unless the police in question are expected to serve as military personnel.  MPs in the military and police assigned to anti-terrorist activities are a possible exception to this rule.

#10.  It shouldn't be necessary to make accountability a condition specified in a union contract.  This is a responsibility of management and should be upheld as a matter of course.

This does not mean that I don't firmly believe that all lives matter - I do!  Rather, I think most if not all of the points listed require clarification, definition, and further thought.  Some, as stated, are even more open to potential abuse than what we have now.  Conspicuously missing are suggestions such the following:

Requiring police officers to live in the community they serve.

Increasing community policing assignments.

Developing and instituting mentoring programs for our youth.

Working with the community to identify and resolve problems before they escalate into violent situations.

Emphasis on use of non-violent techniques where possible.

Training police officers in the culture of the community they serve and in developing stronger inter-personnel skills.

ml1 said:

Philando Castile was pulled over while driving at least 52 times by police in the past few years. Does anyone think he wasn't being profiled? 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/us/philando-castile-minnesota-police-shooting.html?hpw&rref=us&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well

There are a few questions I have about all this. First off, if his plate was run (and assuming it was his car, which seems highly likely), I'm guessing PD would have had red flags going off everywhere each time they scanned/ran his plates.  Did they run them?  Does the PD have the ability to know what the infractions are up front, and consequently can they tell if he's a convicted murderer on the run vs a guy with a non-violent record?  If not, would not knowing this serve to have PD on heightened alert when pulling someone over (yes, yes, I know, it doesn't justify their actions in his case--I'm not defending that) and thus reveal a widespread change in the system that's needed to prevent unnecessarily pre-judging someone sitting in their car upon approach? He was cited countless times for driving without a license and kept driving, which seems to have perpetuated the cycle of getting pulled over, cited, then back out to do it all over again. How much of this is actual profiling and how much of it is just a logical result of seeing him constantly pop up on a plate scan?  I don't have answers, but there seems to be some missing pieces to the backstory and lessons to be learned than just the same guy getting pulled over again and again for just profiling.

Has this been mentioned?

http://abc11.com/1422569/

joan_crystal said:

terp said:

I read about the Black Lives Matter Policy Goals.  Here they are:

• Ending "broken windows" policing, which aggressively polices minor crimes in an attempt to stop larger ones
• using community oversight for misconduct rather than having police decide what consequences officers face
• making standards for reporting police use of deadly force
• independently investigating and prosecuting police misconduct
• having the racial makeup of police departments reflect the communities they serve
• requiring officers to wear body cameras
• providing more training for police officers
• ending for-profit policing practices
• ending the police use of military equipment
• implementing police union contracts that hold officers accountable for misconduct

I agree with all of this.  The only one I'm not sure about is 5th one.  They should hire the best people they can get.  Though logically over time I'd expect that to line up with a community's demographics.

Well done, if this is actually the platform!

I am surprised to find that I have a problem with most of the platform as stated and would like to see all of the points modified or rethought for the reasons given below.  

#1. I have no problem with broken windows as long as it is applied equally to all. When one group is singled out due to profiling, then I have a problem with the technique.  Ideally, police forces using this tactic should keep records on how well it works and discontinue if it is ineffective or counter productive.

#2.  Who would provide the community oversight?  Police don't make the laws, they enforce them.  Again, I have no problem with enabling police to do their job unless the job is being performed unequally.  If the laws appear to be ineffective or unfair, then the law makers are the ones who have to adjust accordingly.

#3.  No problem provided police use of deadly force standards are clearly set and applied equally to the entire population.

#4.  Proceed with caution!  Who would provide the monitoring/investigation and who would monitor/investigate the monitors/investigators?  This is the sort of thing that can get out of hand very quickly and negatively impact on the ability of the police departments to do their job.  Is a neutral official body such as the Civilian Complaint Review Board in NYC envisioned or more of a network of grass roots organizations who may have their own agenda?  

#5.  There is some advantage to this in communities where cultural differences or primary language other than English become a factor in establishing rapport with the community served.  Otherwise, I would favor a merit and fitness approach.

#6.Mixed feelings on this one.  Perhaps wearing body cameras that actually work would be an improvement.  Even then, camera angles can be misleading.  Using a body camera as part of a reviewable record could be helpful in establishing objectivity in application of law enforcement within the broader community.

#7. Simply requiring more training time is not the answer.  Developing an effective training program, requiring officers to take the training including refresher courses/updates, and taking action if officers do not complete the training satisfactorily is what is needed.  There needs to be more emphasis on community policing and use of techniques that are less likely to escalate potential for violence.

#8. Not sure what this means.  Private security firms perhaps?  If so, private security firms may have their place but these officers need to receive pay commensurate with their duties, need to meet the same qualification requirements as police officers, need to receive the same training as police officers, and need to be held as accountable for their actions.

#9.  Day to day police activities should not require need for military equipment unless the police in question are expected to serve as military personnel.  MPs in the military and police assigned to anti-terrorist activities are a possible exception to this rule.

#10.  It shouldn't be necessary to make accountability a condition specified in a union contract.  This is a responsibility of management and should be upheld as a matter of course.

This does not mean that I don't firmly believe that all lives matter - I do!  Rather, I think most if not all of the points listed require clarification, definition, and further thought.  Some, as stated, are even more open to potential abuse than what we have now.  Conspicuously missing are suggestions such the following:


Requiring police officers to live in the community they serve.

Increasing community policing assignments.

Developing and instituting mentoring programs for our youth.

Working with the community to identify and resolve problems before they escalate into violent situations.

Emphasis on use of non-violent techniques where possible.

Training police officers in the culture of the community they serve and in developing stronger inter-personnel skills.

I think #8 means that Police should not be a revenue generating department within the City/County/Township as it is the case in many places such as it was the case in Ferguson. 

http://harvardlawreview.org/2015/04/policing-and-profit/

paulsurovell said:

Has this been mentioned?

http://abc11.com/1422569/

No - the woman shot by police in Greenboro NC in May was Vietnamese.

I think there are actually three BLM policy agendas.  One for Federal, one for State, and one for Local. Looks like some items overlap.

Federal

State

Local 

An additional popup link to NJ legislation and status is here under the heading "Track Progress of Legislation".  

pmartinezv:  Thank you for the clarification.  That hadn't occurred to me since in Maplewood comments are generally directed towards more moving violations and parking tickets being issued to bring in revenue.    Agree that speed traps and the like can be a problem even when race neutral.

joan_crystal said:

pmartinezv:  Thank you for the clarification.  That hadn't occurred to me since in Maplewood comments are generally directed towards more moving violations and parking tickets being issued to bring in revenue.  ">  Agree that speed traps and the like can be a problem even when race neutral.

I believe that I have read that the ticket revenue doesn't stay local in NJ so there isn't an incentive to increase it that way.  (Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that.)