Bigger Patio, higher taxes? archived

If the tax assessor calls it a patio already and you increase it's sq. footage it would be safe to assume your taxes would increase accordingly. Do you know what the code/requirment is for a patio in Maplewood/South Orange?

Is it attached to the house? "Patios" generally are not and decks are.

I was thinking something similar, Ecogirl. It's always been my understanding that if a patio is not attached to the house, it is not subject to needing building permits or inspections, and therefore I can't imagine why the tax assessor would be interested.

Hmm, interesting. I'd like to do some home improvements but I can't have my taxes go up anymore! Argh.

PeggyC said:

It's always been my understanding that if a patio is not attached to the house, it is not subject to needing building permits or inspections, and therefore I can't imagine why the tax assessor would be interested.

That's what we were told when we added a patio to our house.

Mkmama,

I did NO improvements to my home since the last reassessment, but in the last reval, my property values went up compared to my neighbors. (Sigh... )

I would contact the building department. The key here is that the assessor has already deemed it a patio so you should find out from them before you do any work just to be safe and cover your a**

The answer is No. It is considered landscaping.

Thanks, everyone. My taxes went up 3k right after we moved here. Gulp. Can't add on anymore or we are outtie.

mkmama2 said:

Thanks, everyone. My taxes went up 3k right after we moved here. Gulp. Can't add on anymore or we are outtie.

I hate to say this to you because I know 3,000 is alot of money but depending how long you lived here...thats actually not bad. I know people whose property taxes pretty much doubled in 16 years and hey...my rent went up 2,100 in 15 years.

I hear ya. We were definitely naive. Our realtor said we would probably only go up a couple hundred at most. Suckers. Guess we were just a little blindsided. Oh well. Live and learn.

It seems that landscaping improvement--whether that's a patio, retaining walls, fencing, gardens, etc--is one thing that will raise the value of your property in the market place but will not immediately affect the town's valuation or an appraisal by any third party (say, for refinancing purposes).

pixigirl said:

mkmama2 said:

Thanks, everyone. My taxes went up 3k right after we moved here. Gulp. Can't add on anymore or we are outtie.

I hate to say this to you because I know 3,000 is alot of money but depending how long you lived here...thats actually not bad. I know people whose property taxes pretty much doubled in 16 years and hey...my rent went up 2,100 in 15 years.

Our taxes doubled in only seven years. Talk about shock...

i was under the impression that it depends on the kind of patio--a 'permanent' installation like a cement one is taxable, while one made of a material like stone/gravel/etc would be considered landscaping and not impact your property taxes.

a quick call to the town's tax assessor should answer your question

Good luck.

krnl said:

i was under the impression that it depends on the kind of patio--a 'permanent' installation like a cement one is taxable, while one made of a material like stone/gravel/etc would be considered landscaping and not impact your property taxes.

a quick call to the town's tax assessor should answer your question

Good luck.

I'm confused by the difference you see among different type of patio. It seems to me pretty much ALL patios would be permanent if it involves hardscaping, whether the material used is concrete, stamped concrete, concrete pavers, brick, all kinds of flagstone (including bluestone slate), etc. I suppose you can have a patio with gravel but would that be considered "a patio" as most people understand it?

But agreed about calling the assessor. FWIW, the town doesn't require a permit to build a patio (even a permanent one).

NON-ASSESSABLE IMPROVEMENTS
Replacement of bathroom or kitchen fixtures
Window and through-wall portable air conditioning
units
Patios made of loose slate, crushed stone,
brick, slate or patio blocks
Outdoor brick or stone barbecues
Residential sidewalks, driveways and fences,
trees, shrubbery and landscaping
Small portable above-ground pools based
on inspection
Paneling or wallpaper as replacement or
other wall finish, based on inspection
Aluminum siding as replacement
New roof shingles as replacement
Replacement of old oil or gas burner unit
with new oil or gas burner
Storm windows
Change in electrical service
Residential skylights

From the Township website:

Building Department
View All FAQs...
1.When is a construction permit required?
A construction permit is required for all work that is not considered minor work. Items such as re-roofing, siding, and replacing water heaters or furnaces are a few examples of minor work. For questions about construction permits, please contact the Building Department at (973) 762-8120 ext. 3600.
2.Will my taxes go up when I receive a permit?
Most maintenance work does not result in an increase in taxes. If you have a concern, please contact the tax assessor's office at (973) 762-8120 ext. 2400.

Another thing to consider is how big your new patio is going to be. There are certain restrictions in town as to how much deck a person is allowed to build on their property so i'm sure it's the same for a patio. A patio also doesn't seem like it falls under the minor work category not requiring a permit. Last week more than half of the posters on one thread didn't know they needed a permit to install an alarm system either. Like I said earlier, your best bet is to call the assessor since he's the one who deemed it a patio to begin with.

MetalArt

"Last week more than half of the posters on one thread didn't know they needed a permit to install an alarm system either."

According to the town website, alarm system installation DOES fall under "minor work" and thus does not require a permit, just a notification of work and a submission of application. See here: http://www.twp.maplewood.nj.us/index.aspx?NID=258

BTW, doesn't anyone at the town check their website for typos? The Building Dept section is riddled with them!

You should read that again.

"The issuance of a permit shall not be required BEFORE minor work may proceed".

1. Notice of minor work shall be a personal or telephoned oral notice BEFORE work commences. This oral notice shall be provided to the enforcing agency between 9:00 A.M. and 5:00 P.M., Monday through Friday, except holidays. In those cases where the local enforcing agency is not open and available to receive notice at those times then notice shall be provided to the municipal clerk;
2. In addition to oral notice, the owner or his agent shall be required to file an application. The completed application with the fee shall be delivered in person or by mail to the enforcing agency, within five business days from the date of the oral notice.

You're absolutely right. What threw me off was this from their FAQ:

"1.When is a construction permit required?
A construction permit is required for all work that is not considered minor work. Items such as re-roofing, siding, and replacing water heaters or furnaces are a few examples of minor work."

Apparently, you don't need a CONSTRUCTION permit for minor work (as such as alarm system install) but do need just regular old plain permit for them.

Regarding patio construction, it is NOT subject to setback requirements if it's on the side or the rear yard and is not elevated. Its construction also doesn't require a permit as long as it's on the side or the rear yard and is not elevated. This is per direct conversation with Mittermeier.

Mine would be on the rear and not big. Maybe 20x 10?