Anyone use the 1-2-3 Magic discipline method? archived

Tried it about a year ago when my kids were 7ish and 4ish. Worked great on the 7 year old. Worked for about 2 weeks on the 4 year old, until:
me: "please don't hit daddy"
he: -whack-
me: "That's one"
he: "oh yeah!?! Thats 2 that's 3 ... TIME OUT!"

It's time for you to buy a book or two or three by the fabulous co-authors Faber and Mazlish.

Well hitting is supposed to be automatic. No counting.

But I find that 1 - 2 - 3 basically gives a free pass to do it twice. My daughter had become very good at stopping on 3 but milking 1 and 2. Now its 1 -2 time out. Still one free pass but we find it better. But maybe we were doing something wrong.

I find that 1,2,3 still works for even my 12 year old in getting her to do something she needs to do but is resisting/procrastinating. I've been using this (less consistently of late) for about 2-3 years, and wishing I'd started earlier. I don't use it for everything but when I am tired of her stalling or whining it works pretty well. It goes something like this:
"Honey, you need to take a shower tonight."
"I don't want to."
"It's not a choice honey, you haven't showered since......"
"But I don't want to." Big, dramatic sighs.
"Okay, you need to shower by 7:00."
"But mo-om!"
"7"
Sometime she does it. But if not and it is approaching 7 I'll say,
"Nakster, it's almost 7."
"So?"
"One."
Silence
"Two"
huffing and sighing and muttering
"Three"
"I said I'm going!"
And she is.

The trick really is to make sure that you follow through on the consequence. As in, "Honey, if the shower isn't done by 7 then the computer goes off for tonight AND tomorrow night." She already knows not to even think about tv in that case.

Early on, before she really believed it, I would sometimes take the tv away for an entire week. That got her attention. (Of course it also got her to read more and practice piano more so I wasn't that upset by it!) Once she had to miss a social event (logical consequence - if you don't do your grooming you don't get to socialize.)

Another tack that has been useful to eliminate whining/pleading is to say, simply: "The more you ask/whine the less likely you are to get what you are asking for. You've asked once and I've told you I will think about it. I will let you know when I decide." Now I just have to say: "What happens the more you ask?" And she says "I'll shut up now." or "I'll be quiet." And I say "Thank you."

You sound like My Lovely WifeTM and me. Nakster sounds like Reingold Daughter 2.0.

so far it has been magic for us--we started when our daughter was nearing 3. she's almost 4 now, it still works brilliantly. highly recommended. it helped take the negotiating (which was pointless) and emotion (on my end) out of the situation.

I agree that if properly administered it works well. I am still having success with my 10 and 12 year old. However, if you want it to work, getting to three MUST result is a swift and severe punishment - otherwise you are being a patsy and they will know it and take advantage.

3's are tricky - they know what they should do, but often don't have the impulse control to do it. What I have settled on, is that there are a few absolutes (hitting, throwing things at a person) which get you an automatic time out. Otherwise, I am content to count for ordinary contrariness and temper tantrums, until 5, at which point a time out is given.

This system still works remarkably well with the 11 year old. I give her a time out, she refuses to go, or starts complaining , and I start counting, and she will usually go up to time-out before I get to 5.

And then there are some things which I just tell them flat out are not open to debate and discussion and there will be immediate consequence if they dont do what I say immediately

Posted By: jeff_fTried it about a year ago when my kids were 7ish and 4ish. Worked great on the 7 year old. Worked for about 2 weeks on the 4 year old, until:
me: "please don't hit daddy"
he: -whack-
me: "That's one"
he: "oh yeah!?! Thats 2 that's 3 ... TIME OUT!"

According the book, your four-year old would be considered a delayed tester. The book warns of this happening and suggests consistently following the "rules" and eventually the child with "get it".

Posted By: campbell29hitting, throwing things at a person) which get you an automatic time out. Otherwise, I am content to count for ordinary contrariness and temper tantrums,

That's what the book says to do, but goes further to say that the parent shouldn't express emotion (anger) when counting or sending a child to time out. Also, the book counts to 3, 3 being time-outs.

Posted By: nakailleI find that 1,2,3 still works for even my 12 year old in getting her to do something she needs to do but is resisting/procrastinating.

The book suggests that the counting will be effective for stopping unwanted (by you) behaviors, but a different method (which I haven't read about yet...will finish the book this weekend) is used for starting behaviors (in this case, showering). The psychology behind it is that it takes one second for the child to find motivation to stop doing something, but it may take 15 or 20 minutes for them to pick up toys or finish a meal, and therefore requires more motivation to accomplish.

I appreciate everyone's input. Have any of you actually read the book? I was specifically looking for feedback on the book and theories contained in it (which are a bit different from your run of the mill counting and time-outs). Thanks!

I've read the book. It works about as well as everyone above says. I second Tom's rec for the Faber and Mazlish books, it has a better overall philosophy about how to be a parent.

Keep in mind though that parenting book ideas never ALWAYS work. Not on the kid, who could ignore the 1,2,3 because they either don't care about the consequences at that moment or are too worked up to listen to you. And not on the parent, as it is hard hard hard (at least for me) to remove your emotions from any type of discussion with your kid. And hard to remove the need for extensive explanations out of the equasion.

In any case good luck!

A man I work with, who raised seven great kids and has 20 grandchildren, but who is decidedly old school, espouses the "VRN Method"

VOLUME
REPETITION
NASTINESS

1-2-3 Magic is a standard and works well when it's used properly (consistancy, no negotiating, yelling, etc.)

A newer book in the same vein is Beyond Time Out. The method is similar.

I don't recall the theory behind 1-2-3 Magic, but Beyond Time Out is based on the assumption that many of our kids' difficulties (defiance, anxiety, etc) stem from the fact that our kids are given way too much control over their environment. The author feels that the parenting books for our generation have led us to pretty much handing the kids the keys to the car...they decide what to eat, what to wear, where adults sit at the dinner table, who sleeps in what bed, and so on. I used it to solve a year-long sleep issue with our preschooler and while the process wasn't easy, we stuck to it and now we all get a good night's sleep.

I think the Faber and Mazlish books are a nice balance between trying to understand and communicate with your kid while not "giving them the car keys" as you say.

for example, yesterday in the car my 5 year old was whining non-stop about dinner. With the 1-2-3 magic approach, you basically say "stop whining right now or x will happen, that is one", etc. The Faber and Mazlish approach would have you say something like "I understand that you really don't want soup for dinner, you want chicken nuggets", or "you really love chicken nuggets, don't you? You wish we could have them every day!" and "I wish I had known that when I planned dinner" or "Should we plan on having chicken nuggets tomorrow night?" or whatever.

In the 1-2-3 method the kid gets frustrated because she (in my case) doesn't feel like you heard what she said, and that you are basically telling her to shut up (which of course is the end result you want...a stop to the whining!). In the Faber method the kid at least you are letting the kid know that you heard them even if you aren't going to do what they are asking/whining for.

So I usually try a combo approach. Start with the Faber method to make sure the kid knows that I heard her and understand her frustration. A lot of times that will cease the bad behavior. If that doesn't work I revert to "I told you I heard what you said. Now you need to stop whining, that is one". But then I have to find an appropriate "punishment", which when you are stuck in the car for 20 min isn't easy. In my case it got the kid sent to her room for a bit, which frankly isn't that bad of a punishment for her (but relieved my ears for a while).