25 minutes for an ambulance

Recently there was a report of a young child falling very  ill on a bus. It took over 20 minutes for an ambulance to arrive during school departure . This is alarming considering this happened during school dismissal and their is a lot of pedestrian traffic . This is unacceptable.  What is the excuse for an ambulance to take so long when we have Maplewood ,South Orange, and Millburn EMT?  OVER 20 minutes

Are volunteers at the ambulance stations 24 hours each day?

You mentioned school was out. Kids walking in the area would slow things down.

If the "primary" ambulance crew was out on a call, it might take 5 to ten minutes more for a back-up to arrive.

The solution is to help out by volunteering.  Maplewood's volunteer rescue squad has a severe shortage of volunteers so the fire department must cover during daytime. We also rely on the South Orange volunteer squad for coverage. If you cannot help the Maplewood squad, volunteer with the SO one.

How ill was the child?  Did the child's condition require hospitalization?  Ambulance service isn't needed for every condition.  Depending on how the child's condition was described, dispatcher may have felt that other calls coming in at about the same time may have been for more life threatening situations.  We need to make do with the resources we have and are willing to support unfortunately.

There is a tendency to take our volunteer First Aid Squads/Rescue Squads for granted.  They need community support to function.  If you can, volunteer.  If not, donate what you can to the cause.  Similarly, do what you can to provide support for our municipal (Fire Department) and MONOC (paid back-up) ambulance service. That is the only way to increase the probability that such service will be available when we need it.

Not just kids walking, but the severe traffic congestion around the schools from all the parents picking up children. I made the mistake of driving past a local grade school on my way to work once, it literally took me 15 minutes to get 3 blocks.

And as it has already been posted, if there was another medical emergency going on in town they may have had to wait for mutual aid from another town.

Other possibilities could be how the call was placed. Did the person who noticed the medical emergency call 911 directly, or did they call a supervisor and ask them to call? Once you get into relay situations like that (more common that you would think) response times get delayed and bad location/medical information have a higher chance of being given.

Unless more concrete information is known (i.e. not the normal "I heard from someone that they heard...") I don't think it is right to criticize at this point.    

I also want to add that perception of time is vastly effected during stressful situations such as a medical emergency.

I recall many years ago taking a CPR course. You are supposed to check for a pulse after 60 seconds of compressions. I asked the instructor how I would know that 60 seconds had passed if there wasn't a clock around. His reply was "When it seems like it is taking forever and you think to yourself 'where is the ambulance!?!' it has been 60 seconds."  

As usual, there's a somewhat related NPR story for that.

Sklaver, who practices at Garden City Pediatrics in Beverly, Massachusetts, immediately started CPR and called 911. We need an ambulance, he told the dispatcher urgently, giving the name of the school he was at and the street it was on.

The dispatcher asked him a question or two, he recalls, “and then asked me the bewildering question of ‘What town are you in?’ And I told them, and then they reconnected me to another person to re-tell the same story again — which seemed to be taking a lot of time away from doing CPR.”

http://commonhealth.wbur.org/2016/02/911-cellphone-mapping 

Yes, calling 911 from a cellphone absolutely adds time since the system has to "guess" which town you are in based on which cell towers you are using, and having to transfer to caller to the correct town is very common. However, for a cell phone call finding out which town you are in should always be the FIRST question, and even for landlines asking the location is usually the normal protocol since it isn't unheard of for landlines to display an incorrect location.    

A while ago I was exiting 24 and there was a woman out of her car trying to flag someone down.  I could not safely stop but as soon as I could I pulled over and called 911 from my cellphone.  I got transfered twice so had to explain the situation three times.  When the third person was transferring me to a fourth I gave up.  So there is an issue with cell phones and 911.

In an actual life threatening emergency, an ALS (advanced life support) ambulance staffed by paid paramedics is dispatched.  I don't know where they are stationed off hand, but they could also be coming directly from a hospital after dropping off another patient, or could be unavailable...I don't know how many units are in service at one time..definitely more than 1..stationed in different areas.
in a less serious emergency (vomiting, broken leg, etc) only a BLS (basic) unit is dispatched...that is often the volunteers who are often responding from home.....and many towns don't have assigned crews during the day...they just hope someone answers....if not they go to mutual aid or maybe a paid contract service as back up.

I HATE THE CELL PHONE 911 SYSTEM..i called the local PD number in another town once for an emergency since previous experience of being transferred around using 911..and the local message comes on telling me to hang up and call 911..SERIOUSLY????????  Using the local number was quicker...the number that used to be used before 911 and calling the local number got you to the same dispatcher you would get if you called 911.....I had a list of local PD numbers in the towns I was regularly working in or spent time in long before 911 days after an incident trying to track down the number of a PD in another town to report an incident.

I used to drive 20,000 miles per year for work...and had multiple occasions to call 911 (impaired drivers, accidents)...and the delay was very annoying being transferred around...one time the call was dropped, another time they told me the cop was on the way..no one showed 10 minutes later...had to call back...

Strange that 911 often doesn't know your location when calling from a cell phone, but your cell phone does. 

Every time I go to Google maps on my phone, it manages to locate me within 50 ft. Same with apps like AAA.

jmitw said:

In an actual life threatening emergency, an ALS (advanced life support) ambulance staffed by paid paramedics is dispatched.  I don't know where they are stationed off hand, but they could also be coming directly from a hospital after dropping off another patient, or could be unavailable...I don't know how many units are in service at one time..definitely more than 1..stationed in different areas.

ALS units are based on population.  In New Jersey they are hospital based and certain hospitals are given certificates of need.  In our area the ALS units come from St Barnabas (MONOC) though if they are tied up (I don't know how many units they have up there) then a unit might be called in from Newark (University Hospital).

Off topic, most hospital systems use chase trucks for ALS.  UH uses full ambulances capable of transport.  This is for two reasons.  One, if BLS isn't available (common in Newark) they are still capable of treating and transporting a patient, though obviously they would only have one medic working on the patient since the other would be driving (not ideal).  Two, a judge recently ruled that BLS and ALS could not both charge for services, he seemed to believe that the only service being delivered was transporting the patient to the hospital so it was duplicate billing.  Apparently he didn't comprehend that they were providing different services for the same job (similar to someone receiving a bill from both the hospital AND the doctor for an ER visit, same event but different services).  This isn't an issue with volunteer companies since they don't bill, so ALS is free to bill with no compilations.  With situations where there are both paid BLS and ALS on scene, many ALS units have billing agreements with local BLS where they get to bill and then send a portion to the BLS company.  However, if there is no agreement then ALS (which costs a LOT to maintain) often gets the shaft because of this stupid court ruling. The downside to UH putting their ALS units in ambulances is that when BLS calls are backed up (very common) the dispatchers will send ALS units to BLS jobs.  You literally have MICP trained and certified personnel responding to twisted ankles, nausea calls, and other complete and utter bullsh*t.

BG9 said:

Strange that 911 often doesn't know your location when calling from a cell phone, but your cell phone does. 

Every time I go to Google maps on my phone, it manages to locate me within 50 ft. Same with apps like AAA.

Your phone doesn't transmit GPS data to the 911 system.  It was designed when cell phones became popular but before they were GPS capable.  The best they were able to design at the time was a system that used triangulation based off of the cell towers your phone was using.  Yes, they probably could design and implement a brand new system (though they would have to keep the old one for people like my sister who still uses her old Motorola StarTac) but to upgrade the system to also accept GPS data would take money.  Plus, the phones would have to be programmed to automatically send the GPS data, which they currently don''t do.

jmitw said:

I HATE THE CELL PHONE 911 SYSTEM..i called the local PD number in another town once for an emergency since previous experience of being transferred around using 911..and the local message comes on telling me to hang up and call 911..SERIOUSLY????????  Using the local number was quicker...the number that used to be used before 911 and calling the local number got you to the same dispatcher you would get if you called 911.....I had a list of local PD numbers in the towns I was regularly working in or spent time in long before 911 days after an incident trying to track down the number of a PD in another town to report an incident.

911 centers are called PSAPs, Public Safety Answering Points.  They are SUPPOSED to have local surrounding PSAPs pre-programmed into their system so if they get a call from a neighboring town they can do a one button transfer.  Either the town you reached didn't have their transfer button set up correctly (it should go straight to the neighboring town's 911, NOT to their non-emergency PD lines) or the dispatcher attempted, for whatever reason, to do a manual transfer and entered in the town's non-emergency line instead of the PSAP number.

Google maps. Drop pin on top of current location. Share by text to 911-11: "LOLOMG HELP!! Plz hrry"

RobB said:

Google maps. Drop pin on top of current location. Share by text to 911-11: "LOLOMG HELP!! Plz hrry"

I actually know nothing about texting to 911.  These kids these days with their newfangled gizmos.

@joan_crystal.  If this is the issue that was on facebook, the child had a seizure.  As someone who has a grandchild with a seizure disorder, I can affirm that they often require near immediate medical attention.  I understand the police were on site, but my question of whether they were able to provide oxygen was not answered.  That, at least, would have been something.

Another issue that increases response times is abuse of the 911 system.  I know a medic (ALS, not BLS) who was sent to a call for abdominal issues.  He arrived to find a 16 year old girl who is worried because her bellybutton is an outie.  He starts asking question, how long ago did this happen, etc, to find out she has ALWAYS had an outie.  But she and her friends were comparing bellybuttons and she realized hers didn't look like her friends so she was worried something was wrong with her and wanted to go to the hospital to have a doctor check her out. So a paramedic crew was basically out of service and unable to respond to critically ill patients because this girl had an outie bellybutton.  He has been dispatched to "chest pains" that turn out to be diarrhea.  I could go on and on. 

spontaneous said:
Another issue that increases response times is abuse of the 911 system. 

While I do not know the circumstances of this particular call (that the OP refers to), it is true that what spontaneous said is probably the single biggest factor affecting ambulance response times. 

In both Maplewood and South Orange, EMS responses time are well below the national average at about 3 to 7 minutes.

However... Maplewood Fire has one EMS crew / ambulance on duty 24/7. When they are already out on a call, we (South Orange Rescue Squad) respond in as backup. If our crew is not available-- as was the case in this situation-- another agency is contacted. This obviously takes longer than sending the ambulance that is stationed in town, both in terms of travel time and dispatch time.  (In South Orange when the primary crew is already out on a call, backup crews respond from home to get an ambulance and then to the scene... also a slower process than the 1st ambulance, which is staffed and ready to roll immediately).

It is agonizing to be tied up on a call for "ankle pain for the past 3 days" or "sore wrist" and hear another call come in for something life-threatening. (Once on scene with one patient, we are not allowed to leave them and respond to something more serious).  I have had many people tell me that they only called 911 because they thought going by ambulance would help them bypass the waiting room at the E.R. (it won't).

Again, I don't know the particulars of this situation, but this is just something to keep in mind when you call 911-- you are potentially slowing the response of resources to someone else. We always urge people to call if they are not sure if something is a true emergency or not, but there are many times when it is quite clear to anyone that it is not. 

spontaneous said:

BG9 said:

Strange that 911 often doesn't know your location when calling from a cell phone, but your cell phone does. 

Every time I go to Google maps on my phone, it manages to locate me within 50 ft. Same with apps like AAA.

Your phone doesn't transmit GPS data to the 911 system.  It was designed when cell phones became popular but before they were GPS capable.  The best they were able to design at the time was a system that used triangulation based off of the cell towers your phone was using.  Yes, they probably could design and implement a brand new system (though they would have to keep the old one for people like my sister who still uses her old Motorola StarTac) but to upgrade the system to also accept GPS data would take money.  Plus, the phones would have to be programmed to automatically send the GPS data, which they currently don''t do.

I know that GPS data is not used by 911.

But, I don't want to hear we can't do it or we haven't done because it takes money.

Government has been collecting many billions in phone tax and fees every year, for years. The governmental tax, fees and surcharges are ridiculously high. Some of that money is supposedly for enhancing 911.

So, I no longer buy the argument that they can't afford it.

If AAA can write an app that tells AAA yiour location when you use it, then I suspect with the many billions collected in phone fees, surcharges and taxes every year, that they can manage to enhance 911 to identify your location.

soorlady:  Thanks for the additional information regarding the incident described by the OP.  I hadn't seen the Facebook post you refer to in your reply.  I never meant to suggest that the 911 call was inappropriate.  I only questioned whether it was described as a potentially life threatening situation. My other point, that dedicated services might have been on call elsewhere when the call came in is supported by SORescue and is likely the predominant issue in this case.  

Here is an FCC website about texting 911...apparently it doesn't always work.

"Remember - in most cases now, you cannot reach 911 by sending a text message."

Edited to add website -

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/what-you-need-know-about-text-911

BG9 said:

spontaneous said:

BG9 said:

Strange that 911 often doesn't know your location when calling from a cell phone, but your cell phone does. 

Every time I go to Google maps on my phone, it manages to locate me within 50 ft. Same with apps like AAA.

Your phone doesn't transmit GPS data to the 911 system.  It was designed when cell phones became popular but before they were GPS capable.  The best they were able to design at the time was a system that used triangulation based off of the cell towers your phone was using.  Yes, they probably could design and implement a brand new system (though they would have to keep the old one for people like my sister who still uses her old Motorola StarTac) but to upgrade the system to also accept GPS data would take money.  Plus, the phones would have to be programmed to automatically send the GPS data, which they currently don''t do.

I know that GPS data is not used by 911.

But, I don't want to hear we can't do it or we haven't done because it takes money.

Government has been collecting many billions in phone tax and fees every year, for years. The governmental tax, fees and surcharges are ridiculously high. Some of that money is supposedly for enhancing 911.

So, I no longer buy the argument that they can't afford it.

If AAA can write an app that tells AAA yiour location when you use it, then I suspect with the many billions collected in phone fees, surcharges and taxes every year, that they can manage to enhance 911 to identify your location.

Federal government collects taxes on phone bills. Local government is responsible for buying 911 equipment. Maplewood isn't the one getting the $$$ from your Verizon bill. 

And by the way, while cell phones are the only option for emergency calls when away from home, this uncertainty and delay with Cell based 911 is the reason I keep saying that everyone needs to have at least a basic landline phone at home.  It will call 911 directly no matter what.  

I know the trend is to not have a house phone, but my opinion is that is a mistake.

about 15 years ago, ALS only used chase trucks...now many of them can transport..it was something with medicaid or medicare that decided they wouldn't pay for ALS unless ALS transported in their own vehicle...but at least if ALS shows up 1st, they can treat any immediate life threatening issue and hopefully BLS will be there by the time they are ready to move.

OliveBee said:

And by the way, while cell phones are the only option for emergency calls when away from home, this uncertainty and delay with Cell based 911 is the reason I keep saying that everyone needs to have at least a basic landline phone at home.  It will call 911 directly no matter what.  

I know the trend is to not have a house phone, but my opinion is that is a mistake.

But now most people are forced to have the not so great digital home phones...my battery back up died...and I am not about to pay the $45 to replace it just to have 8 hours of phone service in case of an emergency during those 8 hours of a power outage....when i first switched to digital (I had comcast at the time)..it didn't work good at all...my former neighbor still has comcast...and a phone that doesn't work consistently....another former neighbor stayed with an analog line...which quit working ...and no one would or could fix it because  it was out dated....but when we had working analog phones they worked throughout the length of the power outage (except for a cordless!)

I have FIOS service with an 8 hour backup.  Not a problem so far.  The way it is set up is that it is fiber optic to the house and the original copper phone wires inside.  The one important caveat is that most people with a landline have fancy wireless phones that need to be plugged into a receptacle but in a power outage they do not work.  You need one phone that has no doodads and can just hook up to the house phone system- modular plug. i.e., doesn't need a feed of electric power.  These phones cost about $10 - basic phones.  I keep one set up in my basement so even if the power is out in my house, I can still make a call, whether 911 or otherwise.  Old fashioned (almost) and simple.

I have wondered about this. You can dial 911 without phone service?

according to a VZ tech - yes, when the standby battery dips to 20%, it will only make 911 calls. 

you can buy a new backup battery for fios from amazon for 12 bucks and put it in yourself quite easily.