Post Office Value archived

A house on Ridgewood Terrace just sold for $1,295,000. So how is a much larger property with a 15,000 SF building on it worth less? Can some one please explain that to us?

http://villagegreennj.com/towns/government/maplewood-net-950k-sale-post-office-site/?fb_action_ids=10204977299769424&fb_action_types=og.comments

Pot, depending on the strain, has an immense value. Not sure what the value would be to the folks on Ridgewood Terrace.

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More in Denver , Portland or D.C,, less in New Jersey unfortunately

Yup, that's how I interpreted the thread!

Seems like the $200,000 for the teardown is steep. I just tore down a building for less than %10 of that. Unless they assume there is oil in the soil? Is there a tank on the land?

IndaSechzer said:

A house on Ridgewood Terrace just sold for $1,295,000. So how is a much larger property with a 15,000 SF building on it worth less? Can some one please explain that to us?

http://villagegreennj.com/towns/government/maplewood-net-950k-sale-post-office-site/?fb_action_ids=10204977299769424&fb_action_types=og.comments

Okay I'll bite.

Because the Post Office Property is just property with a large building that will require demolition before being developed.

A house on Ridgewood Terrace you can move into and start complaining about local government immediately. No need to tear anything down first.

Do I get brownie points? Or at least a brownie?

Probably a lot of oil in the deal. This is NJ after all.

Hypothetical. What would happen if someone came in and offered double?

Did the Town have an appraisal done on the property? Can't believe they didn't, but in MW anything is possible.

I think it would be nice to have a pot office. I don't imbibe but I have no qualms against adults who do and I think it should be legal. Think of the tax revenue...

Perfect reuse for the building?
Pot sales, a pot smoking salon, brownies and other munchies....
What a great idea.
A real economic boom to Maplewood.

Who is "us"? Not everyone, clearly.

Anyhoo, since we're clearly comparing apples to apples here, how many bedrooms does the PO have? I hear the bathrooms are in SERIOUS need of updating.

My bad. Just ran across the Village Green piece saying the price was based on a 2014 appraisal.

I've been inside the house on Ridgewood Rd. It belonged to a builder. Every square inch was totally and completely renovated. It had a FABULOUS addition with a master suite worthy of a 5 star hotel and a $200,000 kitchen with an adjoining great room.

Furthermore, in real estate, in most cases, the market rules. Properties tend to find their own level. If a property is undervalued there will be multiple bids and it will sell over the asking price. If a property is overpriced it will not sell. This held true for the house on Ridgewood Road and it's true for the Post Office too.

In the past month alone, in a neighboring community there was a listing priced at $999,000 that received 19 offers within 4 days on the market. In the last few months it has been common for properties in Maplewood and South Orange to receive 5 to 10 offers.

I am currently involved in the sale of a commercial property in the Maplewood. The seller already has multiple offers by word of mouth. The property has not yet been listed on the MLS .

If the Post Office site were such a bargain there would be a STAMPEDE of builders vying for the chance to purchase the property and build on it. That clearly is not the case.

I find it hard to believe that anyone even remotely aware of real estate values, or the industry in general could possibly be ignorant enough to ask the question in the original post. How could an architect not be aware that the value of commercially zoned LAND ( or a building), where the development is subject to very tight governmental controls and a very vocal organized opposition is totally and completely different from the value of a large totally renovated house in a premium area.

Or perhaps this is just another attempt to present limited facts in a distorted way to influence public opinion.

Why not take a positive approach instead of a negative one. If a repurposed post office with the accompanying open space could be made to look attractive I think a lot of people would support it. If someone had the skill to draw a rendering of what it could be or might be, that would be much more effective than an the above.

whoa

mrincredible said:

IndaSechzer said:

A house on Ridgewood Terrace just sold for $1,295,000. So how is a much larger property with a 15,000 SF building on it worth less? Can some one please explain that to us?

http://villagegreennj.com/towns/government/maplewood-net-950k-sale-post-office-site/?fb_action_ids=10204977299769424&fb_action_types=og.comments

Okay I'll bite.

Because the Post Office Property is just property with a large building that will require demolition before being developed.

A house on Ridgewood Terrace you can move into and start complaining about local government immediately. No need to tear anything down first.

Do I get brownie points? Or at least a brownie?

Sure you get brownies and points.

The issue of the building is part of the discussion. If demo is assumed then the property as a whole is worth much less. If the site is sold or leased as is with the existing building (or improved), it maintains its value, which is close to three (3) times what the land (w.demo) would be sold for. So the town is basically tossing away a long term investment, which in the end could provide just as much or even more yearly revenue as a new building, while having no investment basis anymore.

Oh and the building has no bedrooms, but does have 4 toilet rooms (one barrier free accessible), including one toilet room with 5 stalls and 2 urinals, all in good workable condition. And while there are no bedrooms, there are 15,000 SF of open usable space with heavy steel and masonry construction.

The house on Ridgewood Terrace has 5 bedrooms, 3.5 baths and is 3,300 SF building on .25 acres land.
The assessed value = land - 405.5K; the building - 328.4K = 734K. Sale was $1,295,000. sale price is 1.75 x assessment.

Versus PO site with a 15,000 SF building on min. .5 acres land
The assessed value = land - 700K; the building - 990K = 1.7M

The PO building is assumed to be a throwaway and we taxpayers are paying for the demo and haz mat remediation to boot. This is a toss away of an approx 1.75 M building investment belonging to citizen taxpayers, while selling the land under the building for less than its market value (when credits are considered in the equation).

Why do we want to do this? How do we as taxpayers substantiate this throw away?

sarahzm said:

I've been inside the house on Ridgewood Rd. It belonged to a builder. Every square inch was totally and completely renovated. It had a FABULOUS addition with a master suite worthy of a 5 star hotel and a $200,000 kitchen with an adjoining great room.

Furthermore, in real estate, in most cases, the market rules. Properties tend to find their own level. If a property is undervalued there will be multiple bids and it will sell over the asking price. If a property is overpriced it will not sell. This held true for the house on Ridgewood Road and it's true for the Post Office too.

In the past month alone, in a neighboring community there was a listing priced at $999,000 that received 19 offers within 4 days on the market. In the last few months it has been common for properties in Maplewood and South Orange to receive 5 to 10 offers.

I am currently involved in the sale of a commercial property in the Maplewood. The seller already has multiple offers by word of mouth. The property has not yet been listed on the MLS .

If the Post Office site were such a bargain there would be a STAMPEDE of builders vying for the chance to purchase the property and build on it. That clearly is not the case.

I find it hard to believe that anyone even remotely aware of real estate values, or the industry in general could possibly be ignorant enough to ask the question in the original post. How could an architect not be aware that the value of commercially zoned LAND ( or a building), where the development is subject to very tight governmental controls and a very vocal organized opposition is totally and completely different from the value of a large totally renovated house in a premium area.

Or perhaps this is just another attempt to present limited facts in a distorted way to influence public opinion.

Why not take a positive approach instead of a negative one. If a repurposed post office with the accompanying open space could be made to look attractive I think a lot of people would support it. If someone had the skill to draw a rendering of what it could be or might be, that would be much more effective than an the above.

Your comments are quite offensive. Of course residential real estate sells differently than commercial real estate. And I too ahve been in that house.
But even comparing the land values and size, the PO property is being given away for less than its true value. Also the building is being left out of the equation - it is a toss away as noted above. That is a fact. and a loss for the citizen taxpayers of Maplewood. it is only a gain for the developer.

And the reason that no one has come forward with a plan for re-purposing is because the redevelopment plan quite clearly states (page 35 and more) that the site will be razed. No options are permitted either in the redevelopment plan or in the RFP for re-use of the building.

If the current negotiations fail and re-purposing is put on the table I know for a fact that a number of entities would be interested.

Oh and there have been a few offers privately to purchase the building and property - they were rebuffed by the town.

If the post office were being "given away at less than it's true value, there would be a line of people making offers on it.

Why would anyone make an offer "privately". Since you seem to know about these purported private offers, can you share the details.

Are you claiming that these "private" offers were for more money and better terms than are currently being offered.

Finally, as I am sure you must be aware, the mere existence of a building, no matter the square footage or how many working urinals it may possess does not automatically add value to a property. In fact, the land may have been worth more if the post office building did not exist.

@ace789nj ) The stoner has slight resemblance to Jesse's friend, Badger, on Breaking Bad.

IndaSechzer said:

But even comparing the land values and size, the PO property is being given away for less than its true value. Also the building is being left out of the equation - it is a toss away as noted above. That is a fact. and a loss for the citizen taxpayers of Maplewood. it is only a gain for the developer.

How do you know ? How did you ascertain what the true value of the PO site is. Are you an licensed appraiser ? Are you familiar with the most recent commercial sales in Maplewood.

Do you know how the limitations and specifications by the town on the development and even the opposition by yourself and others affect the value.

if you are so sure the town is giving it away, then what should the price be.

@sarahzm - The town is in exclusive negotiations with a developer. As an established "Redevelopment Entity", the TC is entitled by statute to act as a private entity and entertain or reject anything it wants. The TC has lost one deal already. To lose another would be an embarrassment. They are striving to make sure that doesn't' happen. Therefore there is a PILOT, no low income apartments, credits for demo and haz mat (read - we pay for it), parking deviations, and other deals to make sure it goes through.

Private offers are as they say - private...not to be disclosed. I cannot disclose - only those who have made the offers can disclose.

The land alone is definitely worth more if the post office did not exist...just the credit for demo should tell you that. But I am sorry to tell you that the post office building does actually exist so your point is moot.

The building is worth more existing than not - the building is assessed at $1 million. (The property/land is assessed at $700K). So the building is clearly added value to the property. And sale value is typically higher than assessed value in Maplewood.

Again - it is a throw away.

@sarahzm - let's get a copy of the appraisal and see - ....I would be happy to state that I am wrong if that is the case. But there is no doubt that the building is a (at least) $1 Million throw away - that is a majority of the undervaluation.
And let's see what the final net price will be after all is carved away. I doubt it is a done deal.

If the PO were being "given away" for less than it is worth, why would a developer walk??? Why would the town need a PILOT and credits to keep a developer interested.

How would it be an embarrassment if a better offer materialized. The TC could take credit and claim a victory.

@indasechzer. I agree with you in that I hope it is not a done deal. I recognize the dire need in Maplewood for ratables, but I think development with a better balance of size, public space, parking and ratables would be a better choice for the site.

I just think that dubious comparisons with completely different properties are not the best argument.

My own unschooled opinion is that the post office building is the ugliest most ill conceived structure in the village, but if it could be repurposed to create a balance of ratables, parking, and public space, and be made something pleasant to look at (not just to aficionados of mid century architecture) and be done in a way that is economically viable I would be all for it.

Is the land currently at its highest and best use? Would the land be more valuable if the purchaser were permitted to build a four-storey building on it rather than a three-storey building?

If what you want to see is plans for repurposing then lobby the TC to accept plans .
A few have asked the town to do just that but the TC continues on its merry way not accepting the pleas of the Village Alliance, businesses , and members of the planning board and residents to look at plans for repurposing

Why do we keep accepting this modus operandi ? We must begin to think more progressively about use of land and how we are developing ...repurposing should be considered and the TC who do not look at it's value are minimizing the growth of the town ..
As Fred Profeta stated in his appeal to the TC, it would be better to take time and consider options than to build a monolith that cannot be removed .

.

@sarahzm
Also the appraisal is a year old having been done February 24, 2014. The market has changed in a year.