What is Medicare for All?

PVW

Medicare for all is popular, but what exactly does it mean? Since it's come up a few times already in various threads, and is likely to become an even more visible issue with the midterms over and the 2020 presidential campaigns shaping up, I thought the it deserved its own thread.


To kick things off, here's an overview of eight current plans:


https://www.vox.com/2018/12/13/18103087/medicare-for-all-single-payer-democrats-sanders-jayapal


There's some nice Venn diagrams and other charts in there (and how doesn't love a good Venn diagram?)


Very broadly speaking, right now plans fall into two categories:

- eliminating private insurance and covering all Americans through the government

- allowing all Americans to buy into government insurance (like Medicare or Medicaid)


More details (like how the plans would be financed) in the article.


joan_crystal

As I understand it, the term Medicare for All refers to a proposal for a single payer health care system which would expand medicare coverage to all ages, not just those 65 years of age or older.


nan

This is Bernie's plan from his website:  

https://live-berniesanders-com.pantheonsite.io/issues/medicare-for-all/

THE PLAN

BETTER COVERAGE

Bernie’s plan would create a federally administered single-payer health care program. Universal single-payer health care means comprehensive coverage for all Americans. Bernie’s plan will cover the entire continuum of health care, from inpatient to outpatient care; preventive to emergency care; primary care to specialty care, including long-term and palliative care; vision, hearing and oral health care; mental health and substance abuse services; as well as prescription medications, medical equipment, supplies, diagnostics and treatments. Patients will be able to choose a health care provider without worrying about whether that provider is in-network and will be able to get the care they need without having to read any fine print or trying to figure out how they can afford the out-of-pocket costs.

WHAT IT MEANS FOR PATIENTS

As a patient, all you need to do is go to the doctor and show your insurance card. Bernie’s plan means no more copays, no more deductibles and no more fighting with insurance companies when they fail to pay for charges.



nan

And here is a video and transcript describing Medicare for All and how we will pay for it.


Medicare for All – How Can We Pay for It?

https://therealnews.com/stories/medicare-for-all-how-can-we-pay-for-it

Prof. Robert Pollin and Michael Lighty discuss the findings of a new study by the Political Economy Research Institute at UMass Amherst. The study finds Medicare for All could reduce total healthcare spending by 10 percent, while creating stable access to good care and improving the health of all U.S. residents


annielou

Medicare for all is not at all popular with the folks who put Trump in the White House, and probably a bunch of others who won’t admit to it. Where are the poll numbers on this? I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, but I think people who live in liberal/progressive circles don’t get that Medicare for all falls into the Republican narrative of moving middle class taxes into the undeserving hands of the poor.


nan
annielou said:
Medicare for all is not at all popular with the folks who put Trump in the White House, and probably a bunch of others who won’t admit to it. Where are the poll numbers on this? I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, but I think people who live in liberal/progressive circles don’t get that Medicare for all falls into the Republican narrative of moving middle class taxes into the undeserving hands of the poor.

 Actually Medicare for All is very popular with 70% of people, including Republicans.  That's why it is such a no-brainer for anyone wanting to run for President in 2020 and you have to wonder why the Democrats don't embrace it as a solid part of their platform (hint: donors don't let them).

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/28/most-americans-now-support-medicare-for-all-and-free-college-tuition.html


South_Mountaineer
More and more Democrats, fed up with private health insurance companies, are endorsing the goal of a government-run, single-payer system like Medicare for all Americans. But they have discovered a problem. More than one-third of Medicare beneficiaries are in Medicare Advantage plans, run not by the government but by private insurers.

...

"Medicare for all” has become a rallying cry for progressive Democrats, though it means different things to different people.

...

Billy Wynne, a health care lobbyist who used to work for Senate Democrats, said: “The literal meaning of ‘Medicare for all’ would include Medicare Advantage. But that is not what most supporters of Medicare for all have in mind.”

‘Medicare for All’ Gains Favor With Democrats Looking Ahead to 2020  
https://nyti.ms/2RqLwfe?smid=nytcore-ios-share



PVW
nan said:


annielou said:
Medicare for all is not at all popular with the folks who put Trump in the White House, and probably a bunch of others who won’t admit to it. Where are the poll numbers on this? I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, but I think people who live in liberal/progressive circles don’t get that Medicare for all falls into the Republican narrative of moving middle class taxes into the undeserving hands of the poor.
 Actually Medicare for All is very popular with 70% of people, including Republicans.  That's why it is such a no-brainer for anyone wanting to run for President in 2020 and you have to wonder why the Democrats don't embrace it as a solid part of their platform (hint: donors don't let them).
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/28/most-americans-now-support-medicare-for-all-and-free-college-tuition.html

 As the article I linked to at the beginning of this thread notes, all the likely 2020 candidates are in support of "medicare for all," so it's unclear what you mean by saying "you have to wonder why the Democrats don't embrace it as a solid part of their platform'


drummerboy
annielou said:
Medicare for all is not at all popular with the folks who put Trump in the White House, and probably a bunch of others who won’t admit to it. Where are the poll numbers on this? I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, but I think people who live in liberal/progressive circles don’t get that Medicare for all falls into the Republican narrative of moving middle class taxes into the undeserving hands of the poor.

Who gives a patoot with what Trump voters want? Do you think anyone is going to convince any of them to vote for a Dem? screw 'em. As I've said before, they'll get the benefits of Dem's policies, whether they want them or not (and, in fact, most do want them, just like they love the ACA now that they've finally figured out what it is.)


Dennis_Seelbach
nan said:
This is Bernie's plan from his website:  
https://live-berniesanders-com.pantheonsite.io/issues/medicare-for-all/


THE PLAN

BETTER COVERAGE

Bernie’s plan would create a federally administered single-payer health care program. Universal single-payer health care means comprehensive coverage for all Americans. Bernie’s plan will cover the entire continuum of health care, from inpatient to outpatient care; preventive to emergency care; primary care to specialty care, including long-term and palliative care; vision, hearing and oral health care; mental health and substance abuse services; as well as prescription medications, medical equipment, supplies, diagnostics and treatments. Patients will be able to choose a health care provider without worrying about whether that provider is in-network and will be able to get the care they need without having to read any fine print or trying to figure out how they can afford the out-of-pocket costs.

WHAT IT MEANS FOR PATIENTS

As a patient, all you need to do is go to the doctor and show your insurance card. Bernie’s plan means no more copays, no more deductibles and no more fighting with insurance companies when they fail to pay for charges.


 So, Bernie is NOT in favor of "Medicare for All". That means you can't support him, right?


annielou

The Trump supporters are in key election districts. If they were so insignificant then how on earth did this moron win the election? 


drummerboy
annielou said:
The Trump supporters are in key election districts. If they were so insignificant then how on earth did this moron win the election? 

number one - who said they were insignificant? They're just not significant to Dems winning elections. I haven't seen any studies yet on the November election, but I'd be very surprised to see if  Trump voters switching to Dem candidates was a significant factor.

number two - trump won due to the electoral college, which negates the will of the majority.  Ie, Hillary won the election, but lost in the fine print.

number three - do some reading on Republican vote suppression



nan
Dennis_Seelbach said:


nan said:
This is Bernie's plan from his website:  
https://live-berniesanders-com.pantheonsite.io/issues/medicare-for-all/

THE PLAN

BETTER COVERAGE

Bernie’s plan would create a federally administered single-payer health care program. Universal single-payer health care means comprehensive coverage for all Americans. Bernie’s plan will cover the entire continuum of health care, from inpatient to outpatient care; preventive to emergency care; primary care to specialty care, including long-term and palliative care; vision, hearing and oral health care; mental health and substance abuse services; as well as prescription medications, medical equipment, supplies, diagnostics and treatments. Patients will be able to choose a health care provider without worrying about whether that provider is in-network and will be able to get the care they need without having to read any fine print or trying to figure out how they can afford the out-of-pocket costs.

WHAT IT MEANS FOR PATIENTS

As a patient, all you need to do is go to the doctor and show your insurance card. Bernie’s plan means no more copays, no more deductibles and no more fighting with insurance companies when they fail to pay for charges.
 So, Bernie is NOT in favor of "Medicare for All". That means you can't support him, right?

 If you click on the link, the first thing you will see is: 

Medicare for All: Leaving No One Behind


LOST

If Trump came up with a Medicare for All plan but called it something else his base would support it.

To state the obvious: No candidate for President is ever going to get 100%. A candidate who supports Medicare for All has to win over a majority in enough States to win the Electoral College.



nan
PVW said:


nan said:

annielou said:
Medicare for all is not at all popular with the folks who put Trump in the White House, and probably a bunch of others who won’t admit to it. Where are the poll numbers on this? I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, but I think people who live in liberal/progressive circles don’t get that Medicare for all falls into the Republican narrative of moving middle class taxes into the undeserving hands of the poor.
 Actually Medicare for All is very popular with 70% of people, including Republicans.  That's why it is such a no-brainer for anyone wanting to run for President in 2020 and you have to wonder why the Democrats don't embrace it as a solid part of their platform (hint: donors don't let them).
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/28/most-americans-now-support-medicare-for-all-and-free-college-tuition.html
 As the article I linked to at the beginning of this thread notes, all the likely 2020 candidates are in support of "medicare for all," so it's unclear what you mean by saying "you have to wonder why the Democrats don't embrace it as a solid part of their platform'

 Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer made it clear they were not supporting Medicare for All so I doubt it will be in Democratic platform.  Looking at that list you linked, it seemed that Bernie Sanders and one other person were in favor of real Medicare for All.  The rest of them looked like some strange variation where you still got coverage at work.  Since it is popular with 70% of people, candidates will be wanting to say "Medicare for All" but may not really be saying "Medicare for All."


annielou

Medicare for All, while a desirable goal, reads socialism to enough voters so that it’s embrace will cause yet another Democratic loss. Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, that’s the reality in a general election. Do me a favor. Get in your car and drive west or south for about two hours. You will get an entirely different read on how Americans think. It’s scary, but true.


PVW
nan said:

Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer made it clear they were not supporting Medicare for All so I doubt it will be in Democratic platform.  Looking at that list you linked, it seemed that Bernie Sanders and one other person were in favor of real Medicare for All.  The rest of them looked like some strange variation where you still got coverage at work.  Since it is popular with 70% of people, candidates will be wanting to say "Medicare for All" but may not really be saying "Medicare for All."

 I may be missing it, but where in the link you posted does it say that 70% specifically support the Sanders plan and dismiss the alternatives as not being "real" Medicare for All?


nan
annielou said:
Medicare for All, while a desirable goal, reads socialism to enough voters so that it’s embrace will cause yet another Democratic loss. Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, that’s the reality in a general election. Do me a favor. Get in your car and drive west or south for about two hours. You will get an entirely different read on how Americans think. It’s scary, but true.

 What part of the 70% of people want Medicare for All did you miss?  That includes Republicans. Perhaps you listen to CNN where they lie about how much Medicare for All will cost and they promote a LOSING  senator ("outgoing") giving the advice that when you start talking Medicare for All you start losing people:  https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1078836768152133632

But, how would he know since he did not support Medicare for All?  The corporate Democrats and the mainstream media do not want you to support Medicare for All because they are not on your side. Hopefully, people will wake up enough and shame them to the left before the 2020 election.  


drummerboy
annielou said:
Medicare for All, while a desirable goal, reads socialism to enough voters so that it’s embrace will cause yet another Democratic loss. Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, that’s the reality in a general election. Do me a favor. Get in your car and drive west or south for about two hours. You will get an entirely different read on how Americans think. It’s scary, but true.

 "socialism" is no longer quite the scary term that people of a certain age think it is.

Anyway, the whole point of calling it Medicare for All is to diminish the charges of socialism. Medicare has almost universal support among the electorate. Even the dimmest voter has to question the socialist charge when it's levied against something called Medicare.

It's one of the smarter messages the Dems have come up with, who are historically horrible at messaging.


Dennis_Seelbach
nan said:


Dennis_Seelbach said:

nan said:
This is Bernie's plan from his website:  
https://live-berniesanders-com.pantheonsite.io/issues/medicare-for-all/

THE PLAN

BETTER COVERAGE

Bernie’s plan would create a federally administered single-payer health care program. Universal single-payer health care means comprehensive coverage for all Americans. Bernie’s plan will cover the entire continuum of health care, from inpatient to outpatient care; preventive to emergency care; primary care to specialty care, including long-term and palliative care; vision, hearing and oral health care; mental health and substance abuse services; as well as prescription medications, medical equipment, supplies, diagnostics and treatments. Patients will be able to choose a health care provider without worrying about whether that provider is in-network and will be able to get the care they need without having to read any fine print or trying to figure out how they can afford the out-of-pocket costs.

WHAT IT MEANS FOR PATIENTS

As a patient, all you need to do is go to the doctor and show your insurance card. Bernie’s plan means no more copays, no more deductibles and no more fighting with insurance companies when they fail to pay for charges.
 So, Bernie is NOT in favor of "Medicare for All". That means you can't support him, right?
 If you click on the link, the first thing you will see is: 


Medicare for All: Leaving No One Behind

 But what he offers as his position is NOT MFA...He claims to want the real thing...single-payer PUBLIC healthcare. MFA is still an insurance company-based program, since it's government supported portion is so limited that people are forced to pay some big bucks to the insurance company in order to get adequate care. MFA is certainly better than nothing, but it is NOT single-payer PUBLIC healthcare. They are totally different things. But you wouldn't know that, since RT hasn't told you that yet.


drummerboy

At this point in the life of America, the specifics of any one candidate's policy about universal health care is unimportant. What is important is that the concept of universal health care/single payer is on the table, in a bigger way than ever has been.

Any progress we make towards that goal should be deemed important. It's gonna take awhile to get it done here. The ACA opened the door, but it's still going to be a long journey to get it done.


annielou

Medicare for All, regardless of our definition, is perceived by those who won the election as a socialist giveaway to people the Trumpers don’t particularly for or care about. Whether they could benefit from it themselves seems to make no difference. Did you ever have a conversation with these folks?


South_Mountaineer
Dennis_Seelbach said:


nan said:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

nan said:
This is Bernie's plan from his website:  
https://live-berniesanders-com.pantheonsite.io/issues/medicare-for-all/

WHAT IT MEANS FOR PATIENTS

As a patient, all you need to do is go to the doctor and show your insurance card. Bernie’s plan means no more copays, no more deductibles and no more fighting with insurance companies when they fail to pay for charges.
 So, Bernie is NOT in favor of "Medicare for All". That means you can't support him, right?
 If you click on the link, the first thing you will see is: 

Medicare for All: Leaving No One Behind

 But what he offers as his position is NOT MFA...He claims to want the real thing...single-payer PUBLIC healthcare. MFA is still an insurance company-based program, since it's government supported portion is so limited that people are forced to pay some big bucks to the insurance company in order to get adequate care. MFA is certainly better than nothing, but it is NOT single-payer PUBLIC healthcare. They are totally different things. But you wouldn't know that, since RT hasn't told you that yet.

 That's why I quoted from the NY Times article earlier. And why I highlighted the "no more copays, no more deductibles" language from Bernie's plan. If you just give everyone what Medicare provides, that's not enough to give what Bernie's plan promises. 


drummerboy
annielou said:
Medicare for All, regardless of our definition, is perceived by those who won the election as a socialist giveaway to people the Trumpers don’t particularly for or care about. Whether they could benefit from it themselves seems to make no difference. Did you ever have a conversation with these folks?

This is simply wrong. Support for MFA has been measured recently as high as 70%.

You need better data.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-ab&q=poll+support+for+medicare+for+all

p.s. Having "conversations with these folks" in know way informs you about the general beliefs of hundreds of millions of Americans. You also need better data collection methods.


annielou

WelI I hope these millions of people are motivated enough to vote their beliefs. Data told us a Democrat would win the last election.


nan

Health Care and Insurance Industries Mobilize to Kill ‘Medicare for All’

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/23/us/politics/medicare-for-all-lobbyists.html?fbclid=IwAR2XCeBpCRC9EmyMs80uXPpTi7t-FFiXxHMQKQOTsuED0WYWyBpw0kL0vdc


Doctors, hospitals, drug companies and insurers are intent on strangling Medicare for all before it advances from an aspirational slogan to a legislative agenda item. They have hired a top lieutenant in Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign to spearhead the effort. And their tactics will show Democrats what they are up against as the party drifts to the left on health care.

oots

how about medicare at age 60 ( i'm 60!)


joanne

How universal health care for all operates, in a non-socialist country that’s had it since the ‘70s, and also uses health insurance companies for ‘extra cover’:

Next week, the first week in March, I have an intense week of consultations. On Tuesday I’m seeing my allergist ($430 - she bulkbills me so I pay nothing, Medibank pays her), then my neurologist ($320+, I get $289 back from Medicare within 2 hours of paying), then I’m seeing a psychologist for work stress as part of a Medicare-paid mental plan. 

On Wednesday, I’ll have a 1-hr chat with my (State govt provided) healthy lifestyle coach, checking on the progress I’ve made with some changes for chronic conditions. (This is a free 6month program to keep people out of hospitals) Later or on Friday I’m seeing the exercise physiologist I’ve been referred to by the family doctor, also for chronic conditions incl pain, on a Medicare allied health plan. My 2-hr gym sessions with her will total about $50 over 8 months.

I’ll see my podiatrist, also referred by my family doctor on a Medicare allied health plan, so the visit will cost $15, mostly rebated. 

The week after, I’m due to see my gastroenterologist and the clinic dietitian at the hospital. This will be at no charge to me, and any medication dispensed at the pharmacy there or at the pharmacy I usually visit will be low-cost because it’s on the national prescribing scheme. 

Once I hit the Safety Net of around $1100 this year for prescribed medication the rest of my medications will be free. 

If I choose to have private medical cover, covering areas and options public health doesn’t, I could - I could cover my optometry bills better, or dental bills, have more options for hospital care especially elective surgeries. 

Private companies rebate for basic items like Medicare does, so no-one’s penalised, but there’s more paperwork and honestly, since I’m entitled to this basic free cover, at this stage, i don’t have private insurance. My taxes at work.


nan

This is great.  FOX accidentally invited a guy on who knew what he was talking about.  I'm sure he won't be invited back.



jamie

Decent video - the Kyle commentary isn't necessary though.

But the focus is on moving to a single payer healthcare system - then goes on to compare medicare for all with countries that have universal healthcare.

Can we really focus on what we fighting for here?  The doctor here seems to be fighting for Universal Healthcare AND single payer.  They have similar elements, but they're not the same.

Also, I really don't care what the public polls are on this either.  When polling was done - primarily to republicans on Obamacare - ~20% approved of it, but ~90% approved of the ACA provisions - they had no idea they were the same thing.

Can we outline what steps will be taken to implement this?  Current Healthcare insurers would go away?  Are people like DACA covered?

Can someone explain why offering Medicare as a single payer option to the ACA be a bad idea?  What's the major difference?  It seems like the ultimate goal would be that everyone would be mandated to buy into it and would be charged progressively based on income.

I'm a bit concerned that some people out there have MFA as a litmus test for candidates - it sounds good as a concept, but there's a lot of gray areas in the details.

Let's try to develop exactly what MFA would look like in it's ideal finished state.

What will the average cost be?  Will it be directly deducted from our salaries? 



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