The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns

PVW said:

As I understand jimmurphy's point (and I'm sure he'll correct me if I get this wrong), doing a more visible, sustained job of selling the BBB is less about making the bill overall more popular and more about making the bill more concrete in the mind of voters -- and especially for voters in WV and AZ. Sure, the BBB bill is generally popular, but we're in the cutting room here and Manchin and Synema have a big pair of scissors and just saying "the bill is popular with your consituents" is much less helpful than "I was talking to voters in Charleston a couple of days ago and they're real excited about this bill, especially about the child care provisions. I had one nurse tell me this would make it much easier to get back to work -- she used to work at an opioid treatment clinic before the pandemic closed her child's daycare".

Not everything is going to make the cut. And while senators have their own polls and aides out there constantly trying to take the measure of their constituents, it certainly adds something if the president is calling out specific provisions paired with his talking to your voters.

Absolutely! Keeping everything as vague as it is just gives the Republicans that much more room to demonize the whole shebang as Socialism.


As regards "selling" the program, I so wish...

  • News reports would bother to say $3.5T over 10 years.  No outlet that i'm reading/hearing (mainly NPR and NYT) is doing this.
  • Also helpful would be some kind of comparison to total budget and/or cost of other programs and/or $ sacrificed for TFG's tax cut (and other cuts?).
  • And how about, We're behind on maintenance/development in [name any of a slew of areas], and NOW is the time to borrow, while interest rates are way low.  With some specifics on benefits of the programs. (people who know more about economics than i do, feel free to correct this)

I do think there's something to be said for promoting the programs.  Even though those 2 senators seem to be the only ones who "matter," what could it hurt to get some enthusiasm going, and maybe interest or even convert some who are doubtful.


mjc said:

As regards "selling" the program, I so wish...

  • News reports would bother to say $3.5T over 10 years.  No outlet that i'm reading/hearing (mainly NPR and NYT) is doing this.
  • Also helpful would be some kind of comparison to total budget and/or cost of other programs and/or $ sacrificed for TFG's tax cut (and other cuts?).
  • And how about, We're behind on maintenance/development in [name any of a slew of areas], and NOW is the time to borrow, while interest rates are way low.  With some specifics on benefits of the programs. (people who know more about economics than i do, feel free to correct this)

I do think there's something to be said for promoting the programs.  Even though those 2 senators seem to be the only ones who "matter," what could it hurt to get some enthusiasm going, and maybe interest or even convert some who are doubtful.

yeah - a large part of the public's not knowing details is the fault of the media, who simply focus on nonsense.


Jaytee said:

It’s funny how the southern states will be better off with this ambitious undertaking, but somehow have a problem with the person who wants to actually help them. Ignorance is a sin. 

Forgive me everyone for being so active today. Slow work day, I guess. 

I really do care about this stuff, as you all do, and may not be as well-versed or well-read as many here. It’s an interest, not an obsession.


(Edited and posted this twice. There was more. Jamie, there’s an issue)


jimmurphy said:

Forgive me everyone for being so active today. Slow work day, I guess. 

I really do care about this stuff, as you all do, and may not be as well-versed or well-read as many here. It’s an interest, not an obsession.


(Edited and posted this twice. There was more. Jamie, there’s an issue)

 Nothing to apologize for. If this thread keeps looking like this, I'll have to reconsider my general avoidance of it.


Saw an interesting take on twitter regarding BBB - instead of cutting back individual programs, just make the bill a 5 year instead of a 10 year deal. If the R's take control in the interim, they'll have to run on letting the programs lapse.

I doubt they'll do it, but it seems like a good solution to me.


drummerboy said:

Saw an interesting take on twitter regarding BBB - instead of cutting back individual programs, just make the bill a 5 year instead of a 10 year deal. If the R's take control in the interim, they'll have to run on letting the programs lapse.

I doubt they'll do it, but it seems like a good solution to me.

Saw that too. Pelosi has come out in both sides on that one. Going for the whole ball-o-wax and shortening, or paring programs.

Agreed that it’s a good solution. Especially from a political standpoint.


Makes sense to me too, though I've seen arguments going the other way. One reason I lean toward the "keep everything but shorten the timeline" is having observed how Democrats have had a hard time ending Republican tax cuts even when all they would need to do is neglect to renew them. I think many -- though probably not all -- BBB programs would survive future GOP congresses even with the proposed shortened timelines.


They gotta figure out how to get past the inability to negotiate drug prices.

If there is anything that appeals more viscerally to the average voter, who likely understands that it is all about lobbying and campaign contributions, it’s that!

Pure greed.


ETA that the AARP ads seem effective.


While the recent conversation has been interesting, this Slate story, part 1 of 2, reads like a work of fiction by Phillip Kerr or Anton Chekhov. also evocative of The Americans TV series.

But this isn’t fiction!

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/konstantin-kilimnik-russiagates-last


Smedley said:

Well I think the lack of public outreach for BBB is a failure of leadership, and Biden's leadership is a thing voters are questioning. From last week's QU poll:

  • has good leadership skills: 41 percent say yes, while 56 percent say no, compared to 52 - 44 percent yes in April.

So the lack of public outreach for BBB in itself may not be weighing on Biden's poll numbers, but it's symptomatic of a deeper issue that is, IMO.

Out of the goodness of my heart. Well, mostly.

Where Biden Is Most Vulnerable (Frank Bruni, NYT)


Huh… I thought Bruni was done at the Times.


jimmurphy said:

Huh… I thought Bruni was done at the Times.

He still writes a weekly email newsletter for The Times, which apparently decided to publish the main section from this one separately and put it on the homepage.


DaveSchmidt said:

Smedley said:

Well I think the lack of public outreach for BBB is a failure of leadership, and Biden's leadership is a thing voters are questioning. From last week's QU poll:

  • has good leadership skills: 41 percent say yes, while 56 percent say no, compared to 52 - 44 percent yes in April.

So the lack of public outreach for BBB in itself may not be weighing on Biden's poll numbers, but it's symptomatic of a deeper issue that is, IMO.

Out of the goodness of my heart. Well, mostly.

Where Biden Is Most Vulnerable (Frank Bruni, NYT)

If one takes this to heart, it suggests the problem isn't necessarily Biden, it's that the average person doesn't know who's really responsible for the lack of progress on fighting the pandemic and passing BBB.  It almost feels like Bruni is pulling his punch, lest he offend the people in his profession who don't seem to be doing a very good job of telling people what's really going on in DC and around the country.

And since then? We seem to have stalled. The pandemic grinds on, as do the social dysfunctions that it spotlighted and amplified. Congress is as ugly and constipated a mess as ever; the decades Biden spent there didn’t endow him with some laxative magic. Elements of his strategy for passing his Build Back Better agenda have baffled many observers, including me. I hear some reasonable people around me asking not how much more of it he’ll succeed in enacting but whether he’ll enact any more of it.

We can pin that on McConnell or Manchinema or the Squad, but the buck, as they say, stops with Biden. That’s the hell of his job. The reality of it, too. And his pitch to Americans wasn’t a romantic one, like Barack Obama’s, or a rebellious one, like Trump’s. It was, in large measure, a practical one: I know the ropes, so hand me the reins.

he seems to be saying it's not really fair but it is what it is for the president.  But does it have to be?  Maybe it does in a country where half the voters are getting their information from people who actively want to see Biden fail.

But is the failure Biden's, or is it the country's? 


Checking in after a while away.  I can't believe you all are still patronizing this silly troll.


There  was a genuine conversation going here about a serious issue which will affect every American in the United States. Then the troll police piped up with an inane remark. Are the bloggers here adults, taxpayers, opinion and answer seekers, with a will to engage? Or are they puppets whose strings can be pulled by someone with absolutely nothing to contribute?


Republican brains on parade. You have to read through the thread to see what a moron the Guv is.

All that the reporter did was view the html from his browser. The SSNs were just sitting there in plain text.



DaveSchmidt said:

Smedley said:

Well I think the lack of public outreach for BBB is a failure of leadership, and Biden's leadership is a thing voters are questioning. From last week's QU poll:

  • has good leadership skills: 41 percent say yes, while 56 percent say no, compared to 52 - 44 percent yes in April.

So the lack of public outreach for BBB in itself may not be weighing on Biden's poll numbers, but it's symptomatic of a deeper issue that is, IMO.

Out of the goodness of my heart. Well, mostly.

Where Biden Is Most Vulnerable (Frank Bruni, NYT)

I’m touched. 

The column is a reasonable take. I do disagree with his dismissal of neurological concerns as a wingnut argument and therefore wrong. It is a wingnut argument unfortunately, but just because something is a wingnut argument doesn’t make it automatically wrong. 


On Biden's poll numbers, and his presidency generally, I'm waiting until the budget bill passes and kids' vaccinations are widely available -- so this winter, basically. If the legislation gets through and covid looks to be under control (along with knock-on effects like supply chain disruptions) and Biden's numbers are still bad, I'll concede Democrats should be getting a bit nervous. But as of right now I'm not reading too much into any of this.


"should be getting a bit nervous"?

The Dems should be sh!tting bricks. Right now. And Biden's approval is the least of their concerns going into 2022.


drummerboy said:

"should be getting a bit nervous"?

The Dems should be sh!tting bricks. Right now. And Biden's approval is the least of their concerns going into 2022.

 I think it's still too early.


mtierney said:

While the recent conversation has been interesting, this Slate story, part 1 of 2, reads like a work of fiction by Phillip Kerr or Anton Chekhov. also evocative of The Americans TV series.

But this isn’t fiction!

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/konstantin-kilimnik-russiagates-last

 TL;DR version of that Taibbi piece:

Some say he's a spy and that Russia interfered.
So I asked him, and he denied it.
So that settles it. 


An amazing confluence of two unrelated topics that are often discussed on MOL -

  • Clueless, misinformed American conservatives; and
  • Australia
Ron DeSantis, the Republican governor of Florida who has made a name for himself as an extreme opponent of vaccine mandates, announced at the end of last month that Australia was “not a free country.” This was surprising news — most of all to Australians.

We have mostly spent pandemic lockdowns alternating between boredom, frustration, wine, a lot of Netflix and trying to locate our trousers before Zoom meetings. Recently, we’ve also become aware of a disturbing myth that appears to be enthusiastically fostered on the American right: Our experience of the pandemic, apparently, has been that of a violent police state. We must have been too busy taking out the bins to notice.


    Oh I love van Badham!

    I’m in one of the most protected States (you can’t get in or out), and pretty much everyone is grateful for it. Yeah, it’s rough for business especially those on the border and yeah the federal government has badly bungled some very basic programs meant to support businesses and their workers. But mostly we’d rather not get sick and we’d rather have a fully functioning medical system doing what it was designed to do.

    (2 weeks ago, we waited over 2 hours for an ambulance - we drive past the station on the way to the local shops - the one that came had driven over 30 mins to get here. We then waited 2.5 hours to get into Emergency, which is not usual at all)

    Just got my 2nd vaccination, have to wait 6 months for my booster. Happy to check in everywhere, although usually I don’t allow tracking on my phone or iPad. My gym was a low-risk hotspot last week (I was not there).  Ask me about the Police State I’m living in while one neighbour renovates his house, another blasts 70s disco from his balcony & gets drunk, everyone else is watching the Caulfield Cup horse racing, and there are about 15 bbq parties on the beach at the end of our street  oh oh  question 

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-16/qld-coronavirus-covid-bunnings-vaccination/100525236  Bunnings is a little like Home Depot, except with bbq sausages for charities on weekends. Now you can also get vaccinated there too.

    no hero said:

       


      Of course, it’s different for @marksierra - they have more cases, more deaths, and vastly longer in lockdown. Every time things start to look better for Victoria, some smarty pants decides to cheat and ruins it all; you see the numbers change almost immediately. 
      OTOH out local claim to fame this week is an idiot who decided because she holds a PhD she can issue medical exemptions for mask-wearing, vaccinations and covid testing. 

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-15/qld-coronavirus-covid-maria-pau-illegal-exemptions-court/100541234


      joanne said:

      Of course, it’s different for @marksierra - they have more cases, more deaths, and vastly longer in lockdown. Every time things start to look better for Victoria, some smarty pants decides to cheat and ruins it all; you see the numbers change almost immediately. 
      OTOH out local claim to fame this week is an idiot who decided because she holds a PhD she can issue medical exemptions for mask-wearing, vaccinations and covid testing. 

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-15/qld-coronavirus-covid-maria-pau-illegal-exemptions-court/100541234

      So there are MAGAs down under? "Make Australia Great, Aye"


      I think we’re too busy arguing over whether we need submarines, and who might service them, to have split into MAGA/other political camps  grin  


      Since we have touched on the vagaries of politics and politicians (OK, it’s a stretch), I believe this story gives a historical perspective on foot and mouth disease..

      https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/10/16/political-gaffes-mcauliffe-history-516106


      joanne said:

      I think we’re too busy arguing over whether we need submarines, and who might service them, to have split into MAGA/other political camps 
      grin
       

       I see your point. The inability to figure out what time it is, seems to be another issue. 


      I’m lucky enough to live with real time, all year… ‘summer time’ fades your curtains, and confuses the dairy cows apparently question

      nohero said:

      joanne said:

      I think we’re too busy arguing over whether we need submarines, and who might service them, to have split into MAGA/other political camps 
      grin
       

       I see your point. The inability to figure out what time it is, seems to be another issue. 

       Been told by a neighbour that apparently our restrictions are similar to Canada’s, anyway, even with the lockdowns. 


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