I think some people are bugging out over the question because they know in their hearts the answer is obviously "yes."

I mean, it certainly isn't "no."

So if you're making it a binary question, the preponderance of evidence leads to "yes."

Fake news — in Hong Kong — or dissent? We should take heed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/06/world/asia/hong-kong-media-fake-news.html

mtierney said:

Fake news — in Hong Kong — or dissent? We should take heed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/06/world/asia/hong-kong-media-fake-news.html

 I guess the Hong Kong government doesn't have a Fox News or a NY Post so they have to publish pamphlets.

mtierney said:

Fake news — in Hong Kong — or dissent? We should take heed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/06/world/asia/hong-kong-media-fake-news.html

Sometimes it's too easy.  From the NY Times article cited -

Officials in Hong Kong are increasingly seizing on the label of “fake news,” a common authoritarian refrain.

From a NY Times article in 2018 -

President Trump — who gleefully questioned President Barack Obama’s birthplace for years without evidence, long insisted on the guilt of the Central Park Five despite exonerating proof and claimed that millions of illegal ballots cost him the popular vote in 2016 — wanted to have a word with the American public about accuracy in reporting.

On Wednesday, after weeks of shifting deadlines, and cryptic clues, Mr. Trump released his long-promised “Fake News Awards,” an anti-media project that had alarmed advocates of press freedom and heartened his political base.

Trump Hands Out ‘Fake News Awards,’ Sans the Red Carpet - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

President Trump told Lesley Stahl he bashes press ‘to demean you and discredit you so ... no one will believe’ negative stories about him

https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/interview/former-rt-presenter-russian-disinformation-is-a-weapon/

"I was covering domestic issues for the most part. So I could pitch a story and had to get it approved by the Russian news director. And you learned it would only get approved if it fit a general mould of making the US or the West look bad. If one would watch just one story at a time it can be 100% true but if you take a step back and see a greater context, the general narrative is manipulated to show that western democracy doesn’t work. Another key message was “the huge hypocrisy of the West” – so whenever the US would criticise Russia, the tactic of deflection was repeated, focusing for instance of the intervention in Iraq.

They create this false equivalence, push the idea that there’s no such a thing as an objective truth so everything is just a matter of perspective."

mtierney said:

Fake news — in Hong Kong — or dissent? We should take heed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/06/world/asia/hong-kong-media-fake-news.html

 It is interesting to observe how authoritarian movements adapt to different political environments. Growing up at the tail end of the cold war, the kind of heavy-handedness we see China using in HK is how I always thought of authoritarianism. It's looked different in places with more open societies. In the US, for instance, the strategy has been more "flooding the zone" with disinformation and lies, as we've seen with Trumpism and, once in control, generally keeping at the forms of democracy while hollowing out the substance (as in Hungary).

What's been the biggest surprise to me, though, is the realization that many people actually want this. Again, my referent  growing up was the cold war paradigm with all it stories of people resisting and trying to escape. It's been surprising and dismaying to see how avidly people like mtierney here in the US have embraced authoritarianism and scorned democracy. I've been less shocked by all the Trumpist lies than the fact that people are so eager to believe them.

nohero said:

So neither fell into the trap, which I had pointed out, of answering "Yes" or "No" to the bullsiht question. This is contrary to the claim you made in this thread.

 That is your interpretation. I read it pretty clearly that they both answered the question (which btw I don't see why it's a "trap" or a "BS" question). And that was how it was broadly covered in the press. So if they didn't answer the question, they fooled a lot of people into thinking they did. 

Why is this still going on?

Smedley said:

nohero said:

So neither fell into the trap, which I had pointed out, of answering "Yes" or "No" to the bullsiht question. This is contrary to the claim you made in this thread.

 That is your interpretation. I read it pretty clearly that they both answered the question (which btw I don't see why it's a "trap" or a "BS" question). And that was how it was broadly covered in the press. So if they didn't answer the question, they fooled a lot of people into thinking they did. 

Smedley said:

nohero said:

So neither fell into the trap, which I had pointed out, of answering "Yes" or "No" to the bullsiht question. This is contrary to the claim you made in this thread.

 That is your interpretation. I read it pretty clearly that they both answered the question (which btw I don't see why it's a "trap" or a "BS" question). And that was how it was broadly covered in the press. So if they didn't answer the question, they fooled a lot of people into thinking they did. 

 The fact that you don't see the question as a trap tells us everything we need to know.

drummerboy said:

Smedley said:

nohero said:

So neither fell into the trap, which I had pointed out, of answering "Yes" or "No" to the bullsiht question. This is contrary to the claim you made in this thread.

 That is your interpretation. I read it pretty clearly that they both answered the question (which btw I don't see why it's a "trap" or a "BS" question). And that was how it was broadly covered in the press. So if they didn't answer the question, they fooled a lot of people into thinking they did. 

 The fact that you don't see the question as a trap tells us everything we need to know.

 of course it's a trap question.  If the answer was an obvious self-evident "no", why would anyone even ask the question?  It's an attempt to get someone to give the truthful answer of  "yes" in order that the right wingers will freak out.

ridski said:

Why is this still going on?

Because while ml1’s link and PVW’s replies should give someone with Smedley’s questions enough to think about, Smedley appears to prefer engaging with other posts.

DaveSchmidt said:

ridski said:

Why is this still going on?

Because while ml1’s link and PVW’s replies should give someone with Smedley’s questions enough to think about, Smedley appears to prefer engaging with other posts.

trolling the libs is more fun than an intelligent discussion.

ml1 said:

drummerboy said:

Smedley said:

nohero said:

So neither fell into the trap, which I had pointed out, of answering "Yes" or "No" to the bullsiht question. This is contrary to the claim you made in this thread.

 That is your interpretation. I read it pretty clearly that they both answered the question (which btw I don't see why it's a "trap" or a "BS" question). And that was how it was broadly covered in the press. So if they didn't answer the question, they fooled a lot of people into thinking they did. 

 The fact that you don't see the question as a trap tells us everything we need to know.

 of course it's a trap question.  If the answer was an obvious self-evident "no", why would anyone even ask the question?  It's an attempt to get someone to give the truthful answer of  "yes" in order that the right wingers will freak out.

 The only right winger on this site that I'm aware of is mtierney, I doubt she'd freak out by you saying yes, and I doubt you'd mind if she did freak out. 

ridski said:

Why is this still going on?

 You're free to change the topic rather than just spitball. 

drummerboy said:

Smedley said:

nohero said:

So neither fell into the trap, which I had pointed out, of answering "Yes" or "No" to the bullsiht question. This is contrary to the claim you made in this thread.

 That is your interpretation. I read it pretty clearly that they both answered the question (which btw I don't see why it's a "trap" or a "BS" question). And that was how it was broadly covered in the press. So if they didn't answer the question, they fooled a lot of people into thinking they did. 

 The fact that you don't see the question as a trap tells us everything we need to know.

 Does it tell you everything you need to know about Biden and Harris too?

Smedley said:

 The only right winger on this site that I'm aware of on this site is mtierney, I doubt she'd freak out by you saying yes, and I doubt you'd mind if she did freak out. 

 For full disclosure, let me state: I am a conservative, not a right-winger. I do believe there are others of my persuasion who read MOL, but are too frightened to join in. Maybe frightened is too much, perhaps they just don’t wish to be treated like something you scraped off your shoe.

I always take comfort in believing that the taunters just might feel a tad dirty in retrospect.

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

drummerboy said:

Smedley said:

nohero said:

So neither fell into the trap, which I had pointed out, of answering "Yes" or "No" to the bullsiht question. This is contrary to the claim you made in this thread.

 That is your interpretation. I read it pretty clearly that they both answered the question (which btw I don't see why it's a "trap" or a "BS" question). And that was how it was broadly covered in the press. So if they didn't answer the question, they fooled a lot of people into thinking they did. 

 The fact that you don't see the question as a trap tells us everything we need to know.

 of course it's a trap question.  If the answer was an obvious self-evident "no", why would anyone even ask the question?  It's an attempt to get someone to give the truthful answer of  "yes" in order that the right wingers will freak out.

 The only right winger on this site that I'm aware of on this site is mtierney, I doubt she'd freak out by you saying yes, and I doubt you'd mind if she did freak out. 

 where did I say it was right-wingers on this site?

mtierney said:

Smedley said:

 The only right winger on this site that I'm aware of on this site is mtierney, I doubt she'd freak out by you saying yes, and I doubt you'd mind if she did freak out. 

 For full disclosure, let me state: I am a conservative, not a right-winger. I do believe there are others of my persuasion who read MOL, but are too frightened to join in. Maybe frightened is too much, perhaps they just don’t wish to be treated like something you scraped off your shoe.

I always take comfort in believing that the taunters just might feel a tad dirty in retrospect.

 a lot of right wingers don't like to join discussions like this because it's exhausting for them to have to constantly defend the indefensible.

and yes, your responses here are those of a right-winger.

Smedley said:

drummerboy said:

Smedley said:

nohero said:

So neither fell into the trap, which I had pointed out, of answering "Yes" or "No" to the bullsiht question. This is contrary to the claim you made in this thread.

 That is your interpretation. I read it pretty clearly that they both answered the question (which btw I don't see why it's a "trap" or a "BS" question). And that was how it was broadly covered in the press. So if they didn't answer the question, they fooled a lot of people into thinking they did. 

 The fact that you don't see the question as a trap tells us everything we need to know.

 Does it tell you everything you need to know about Biden and Harris too?

If "everything you need to know about Biden and Harris" includes that they did see the question as a trap and stepped around it, then yes.

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

drummerboy said:

Smedley said:

nohero said:

So neither fell into the trap, which I had pointed out, of answering "Yes" or "No" to the bullsiht question. This is contrary to the claim you made in this thread.

 That is your interpretation. I read it pretty clearly that they both answered the question (which btw I don't see why it's a "trap" or a "BS" question). And that was how it was broadly covered in the press. So if they didn't answer the question, they fooled a lot of people into thinking they did. 

 The fact that you don't see the question as a trap tells us everything we need to know.

 of course it's a trap question.  If the answer was an obvious self-evident "no", why would anyone even ask the question?  It's an attempt to get someone to give the truthful answer of  "yes" in order that the right wingers will freak out.

 The only right winger on this site that I'm aware of on this site is mtierney, I doubt she'd freak out by you saying yes, and I doubt you'd mind if she did freak out. 

 where did I say it was right-wingers on this site?

You expressed wariness/reticence about answering a trap question that would result in right wingers freaking out. But this thread is written and read only by people who are on this site. So why would you care how non-MOL right wingers might respond, being as they're not going to see what you write?

mtierney said:

 For full disclosure, let me state: I am a conservative, not a right-winger. I

 Try as I might, I can't identify anything you're trying to conserve.

Smedley said:

You expressed wariness/reticence about answering a trap question that would result in right wingers freaking out. But this thread is written and read only by people who are on this site. So why would you care how non-MOL right wingers might respond, being as they're not going to see what you write?

As the comment tree shows, the context was what had been asked of Biden and Harris, not what you had asked of us. What ml1 expressed was an understanding of why Biden and Harris wouldn’t answer a trap question and freak out right-wingers, not why he himself wouldn’t.

Was it really that unclear?

mtierney said:

 For full disclosure, let me state: I am a conservative, not a right-winger. 

 You haven't been a conservative since 2016, mtierney. You just haven't been able to admit it.

ridski said:

 You haven't been a conservative since 2016, mtierney. You just haven't been able to admit it.

DaveSchmidt said:

Smedley said:

You expressed wariness/reticence about answering a trap question that would result in right wingers freaking out. But this thread is written and read only by people who are on this site. So why would you care how non-MOL right wingers might respond, being as they're not going to see what you write?

As the comment tree shows, the context was what had been asked of Biden and Harris, not what you had asked of us. What ml1 expressed was an understanding of why Biden and Harris wouldn’t answer a trap question and freak out right-wingers, not why he himself wouldn’t.

Was it really that unclear?

 good response. My first reaction was to just post "wtf are you talking about?"

DaveSchmidt said:

Smedley said:

You expressed wariness/reticence about answering a trap question that would result in right wingers freaking out. But this thread is written and read only by people who are on this site. So why would you care how non-MOL right wingers might respond, being as they're not going to see what you write?

As the comment tree shows, the context was what had been asked of Biden and Harris, not what you had asked of us. What ml1 expressed was an understanding of why Biden and Harris wouldn’t answer a trap question and freak out right-wingers, not why he himself wouldn’t.

Was it really that unclear?

The fact that you don't see the question as a trap tells us everything we need to know.

The bold "you" was part of db's statement to me, which followed by ml1's comments I saw as a micro-level discussion.  

Smedley said:

ridski said:

Why is this still going on?

 You're free to change the topic rather than just spitball. 

 I did. You just changed it back 3 days later. Why?

DaveSchmidt said:

Smedley said:

You expressed wariness/reticence about answering a trap question that would result in right wingers freaking out. But this thread is written and read only by people who are on this site. So why would you care how non-MOL right wingers might respond, being as they're not going to see what you write?

As the comment tree shows, the context was what had been asked of Biden and Harris, not what you had asked of us. What ml1 expressed was an understanding of why Biden and Harris wouldn’t answer a trap question and freak out right-wingers, not why he himself wouldn’t.

This begs the question, why are some folks on here so paranoid about answering and falling into what they perceive as a "trap"? What would be the consequence of saying yes or no (with or without elaboration)?  I would hardly "freak out" either way, and even if I did, as w mtierney, people would like that. So I don't get the turtling. It's like some weird moral high ground that I don't get why it's a moral high ground. 

Genuinely curious here. I've said what I believe -- that U.S. has a lot of work to do in eliminating racism, but on balance, overall, the U.S. is not a racist country. I think we can all agree on the first part of my statement. The second part is not a right or wrong answer, rather it is my opinion. I'm sure there are differing opinions.