Uptick in break ins, etc. Hilton neighborhood

What are the police doing to curb this? People's cars being broken into, people knocking on doors and pretending to be from PSEG, etc. Where are the police in all of this? Why is it up to the citizens to provide all the work with cameras and Ring doorbell footage?

On top of all this, I'm frankly sick of trying to avoid all the solar salespeople knocking on my door when I'm eating dinner or trying to put my kid to sleep. Can't we get some rules about strict hours these people can go door to door? It only adds to the fear in the neighborhood about answering the door. Enough is enough.

There are restrictions on solicitation in town.  I think they must register with the town.  You should contact police to see if it's legit.

Did you contact Hilton Neighborhood Association with these issues?

als4532 said:

On top of all this, I'm frankly sick of trying to avoid all the solar salespeople knocking on my door when I'm eating dinner or trying to put my kid to sleep. Can't we get some rules about strict hours these people can go door to door? It only adds to the fear in the neighborhood about answering the door. Enough is enough.

 When I was a child, long before telemarketing, there would be door-to-door salesmen knocking on people's doors all the time.

"Ring, ring, Avon calling"

And the Fuller Brush Man.  Also the guy who went door to door sharpening knives and scissors.

als4532 said:
What are the police doing to curb this? People's cars being broken into, people knocking on doors and pretending to be from PSEG, etc. Where are the police in all of this? Why is it up to the citizens to provide all the work with cameras and Ring doorbell footage?

On top of all this, I'm frankly sick of trying to avoid all the solar salespeople knocking on my door when I'm eating dinner or trying to put my kid to sleep. Can't we get some rules about strict hours these people can go door to door? It only adds to the fear in the neighborhood about answering the door. Enough is enough.

Most of the problem rests with us and our own behavior.  The best way to keep solicitors from knocking on your door is to keep your door locked and not answer the door unless it is someone you are expecting.  Tell persons you are expecting to phone you when they get to the door if you don't have a convenient window to look through to see who is there.  Most cars in town that are "broken into" are left outside and unlocked.  Leaving your car in a locked garage, if you have one that can be used for this purpose; or locking you car if you must leave it in the driveway are a good way to reduce the number of car break-ins.

The message I’ve gotten from MPD is that if your antenna goes up on someone call the non emergency line, every time, and it is not a hassle and it is not your job to figure out if the guy is legit or not. They will do so with minimum fuss.

They can’t be everywhere. To Joan’s point- this is a low crime town but you can protect yourself by being a bit of a harder target. That said- don’t worry about wasting the cop’s time. They wanna know what’s up.

yahooyahoo said:
There are restrictions on solicitation in town.  I think they must register with the town.  You should contact police to see if it's legit.

 If registering is the only restriction they should change it. They need hours. They are always ringing around 7. Too late. 10-4 should be it. Leave me alone.

The police can't regulate the time of day when a person is allowed to ring your doorbell.  Suppose a spouse is coming home from work and doesn't have their door key, suppose a contractor makes an appointment to scope out a job after the homeowner gets home from work, suppose someone is hosting an evening committee meeting, card game, home concert, or party, suppose your child needs tutoring at home after school, ....  It simply would not work. Just don't answer the door and person ringing your bell will get the message that you don't want to be disturbed.

IMO there a difference between regulating what hours anyone is allowed to ring your doorbell and regulating what hours a licensed solicitor is allowed to engage in door to door solicitation.

So i looked it up and in SO not allowed after 9pm. In Maplewood it's only allowed between 9am and 5pm.

joan_crystal said:

als4532 said:
What are the police doing to curb this? People's cars being broken into, people knocking on doors and pretending to be from PSEG, etc. Where are the police in all of this? Why is it up to the citizens to provide all the work with cameras and Ring doorbell footage?

On top of all this, I'm frankly sick of trying to avoid all the solar salespeople knocking on my door when I'm eating dinner or trying to put my kid to sleep. Can't we get some rules about strict hours these people can go door to door? It only adds to the fear in the neighborhood about answering the door. Enough is enough.

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als4532 said:
What are the police doing to curb this? People's cars being broken into, people knocking on doors and pretending to be from PSEG, etc. Where are the police in all of this? Why is it up to the citizens to provide all the work with cameras and Ring doorbell footage?

On top of all this, I'm frankly sick of trying to avoid all the solar salespeople knocking on my door when I'm eating dinner or trying to put my kid to sleep. Can't we get some rules about strict hours these people can go door to door? It only adds to the fear in the neighborhood about answering the door. Enough is enough.

Most of the problem rests with us and our own behavior.  The best way to keep solicitors from knocking on your door is to keep your door locked and not answer the door unless it is someone you are expecting.  Tell persons you are expecting to phone you when they get to the door if you don't have a convenient window to look through to see who is there.  Most cars in town that are "broken into" are left outside and unlocked.  Leaving your car in a locked garage, if you have one that can be used for this purpose; or locking you car if you must leave it in the driveway are a good way to reduce the number of car break-ins.

 While the police would like us to believe the cars being broken in to are unsecured....it is not the case in most car break-ins.

My cars were broken in to three times last year.  Two of the three times they hit all three of my cars, plus a couple of my neighbors cars on the same night.  All of the cars were locked the night they were broken in to.  That leaves the night when they only broke in to just one of my cars in the driveway, that time they smashed my passenger side window out to get in.  They saw a $1 bill partially sticking out of the ashtray where I keep my toll money. 

While I think the last one may have been a crackhead, the rest were done by pros.  But even when they broke out my window they knew not to open the car door or the alarm would go off.  They reached through the window and grabbed the $1 bill along with the change, then they ransacked the glove compartment and center console.

I also don't agree with not answering the door for solicitors.  Sometimes they are out ringing bells to see if anyone is home.  Some times they come back at a later date, and sometimes they break in right then.   If an elderly person ignores the bell and they break in it could ended tragically.

Jackson Fusion is 100% right, if you feel like something is not right....call the police.

I make sure the solicitor know I’m home but I don’t open the door. I come to the window part of the front door, ask what they want and tell them I’m not interested. I do that just in case it’s someone canvassing to see if anyone’s home. I don’t answer the door for anyone I don’t know. I don’t care if it’s kids selling candy or adults selling solar or siding. 

That works too.

I do the same when I hear the door bell.  Go to the door but don't open it and signal that I am not interested.

I open the door in my boxers and ask them what's up? 

Or if it is the Jehovah's Witnesses I simply tell them I did not see the accident so I can't be a witness for Jehovah.  

Before I get slammed by the PC Police, its called humor.

Thanks! Anyone comes to my place after 5 and I'm calling the fuzz just to send a message. Perhaps they'll get the point after a while and word will spread.

PurpleMonkeyDshwashr said:
So i looked it up and in SO not allowed after 9pm. In Maplewood it's only allowed between 9am and 5pm.
 

the police are always going to tell people to call them when they see something they think is suspicious.  But we should also only report behavior that is really suspicious.  People walking through yards, or trying car door handles is suspicious.  Someone sitting in a car is not necessarily suspicious.  There was a poignant story on FB last year about an African-American man having the Maplewood police called to investigate him simply because he was sitting in a car waiting for an appointment in a neighborhood that had recently had a robbery.  We should be careful to distinguish between what is suspicious behavior, and someone who is not engaging in suspicious behavior, but somehow "looks" suspicious because of their appearance.

als4532 you haven't really made it clear if you have a goal in creating this thread other than airing your frustration about the problem. Or perhaps trying to gain some public support.

There's a standing Public Safety Committee which is made up of three members of the Township Committee (DeLuca, Lembrich and McGehee) as well as Chief of Police DeVaul. I think you would get results with an email campaign especially if you can recruit some neighbors to send the same message.  

You can also go the route of attending a Township Committee meeting to address the full committee but that's kind of a crap shoot because some of those meetings can get very long and there might be a lot of people waiting to make a public statement.

When we lived in the Midland Park section of Maplewood one night our dog alerted us to an attempted break-in of a car across the street (he was ordinarily fairly quiet but at about 11:30 p.m. he went utterly nuts barking and growling like I'd never heard). We called 911 and I opened the front door and hollered at the thieves.  Probably not advisable, but they took off.  The cops arrived within a couple of minutes.  The one officer I spoke to told me that it was known perpetrators who had a really powerful black car that the police would were trying to catch for a while.  I think they finally did get them but I don't think it was that night.

I'm telling the story to illustrate the difficulty of dealing with crimes of this nature. The cops knew about these guys and knew what kind of car they drove and still had a hard time catching up with them.  From that area they could be in three other jurisdictions within a few minutes due to their muscle car and casual disregard for traffic ordinances.  

If you go to the Public Safety Committee maybe you can bring more public awareness to a problem that's not getting enough official attention.

ml1 said:
the police are always going to tell people to call them when they see something they think is suspicious.  But we should also only report behavior that is really suspicious.  People walking through yards, or trying car door handles is suspicious.  Someone sitting in a car is not necessarily suspicious.  There was a poignant story on FB last year about an African-American man having the Maplewood police called to investigate him simply because he was sitting in a car waiting for an appointment in a neighborhood that had recently had a robbery.  We should be careful to distinguish between what is suspicious behavior, and someone who is not engaging in suspicious behavior, but somehow "looks" suspicious because of their appearance.

I partially agree with what you stated.  Unfortunately in today's world there are going to be calls based on race, however, you can't not call because you don't want to be called a racist.  A few years ago a neighbor had lawn equipment stolen from his garage in the daytime hours.  Another neighbor saw a black male pushing a lawnmower while carrying a leaf blower, she thought it was suspicious but said she didn't call because she didn't want to be called a racist or have this man harrassed.  So being PC cost the other neighbor about $800.

You hear stories like this quite often.  It even happens with terrorism, people think something is wrong but dont want to call the police for fear they may be wrong and then be labelled a racist. 

Other side of the argument which is the downside is many innocent black males will be stopped by the police simply because they were black.

EricBurbank said:
I partially agree with what you stated.  Unfortunately in today's world there are going to be calls based on race, however, you can't not call because you don't want to be called a racist.  A few years ago a neighbor had lawn equipment stolen from his garage in the daytime hours.  Another neighbor saw a black male pushing a lawnmower while carrying a leaf blower, she thought it was suspicious but said she didn't call because she didn't want to be called a racist or have this man harrassed.  So being PC cost the other neighbor about $800.


You hear stories like this quite often.  It even happens with terrorism, people think something is wrong but dont want to call the police for fear they may be wrong and then be labelled a racist. 


Other side of the argument which is the downside is many innocent black males will be stopped by the police simply because they were black.

it's probably 100 times more common for innocent black males to be stopped by the police than it is for one criminal to get away because a witness is being "PC."  

The typical person with common sense should be able to distinguish between what is truly suspicious behavior and what is not. 

It's easy for white people (especially white men past a certain age) to tell people that their default response should be to call the police.  Because the chances of someone thinking that someone who looks like me is "suspicious" is somewhere in the vicinity of zero.

It's hard to reconcile those two notions.  One the one hand the police rely on us to call them when we suspect criminal activity.  On the other hand suspicion is highly subjective.

Remedies are complex. I could easily say that everyone should know all their neighbors by sight, but that's not always practical and not flawless.  What if the man who took the lawnmower and leaf blower was a friend from another neighborhood who was legitimately borrowing the tools?  I have to say I don't know what I would have done.

I sometimes have had work colleagues come to my house when I'm not there to get some piece of equipment from my garage (which can open with a code).  I always make sure I email my next-door neighbor not to be concerned by the sight of someone entering my garage and departing with something.  I was never more cognizant of that fact than when the colleague was a young African-American man.  

I guess I had two points that spiraled here. One was just wondering what the cops were up to in terms of cracking down on people posing as PSEG or whatever and breaking in and then separately being super annoyed by the solar people or other door to door sales folks.

Speaking to the other points about race and police - I'll call the cops on the sales people from now on regardless of race, but in terms of "suspicious behavior" I'll rarely, if ever, call. I'd rather see someone lose $800 worth of lawn equipment than another young black man be shot and killed by a cop.

I realize there is a bit of a "does not compute" moment in my thinking above, but I suppose part of it has to do with me personally not wanting to call the cops and just hoping they police the neighborhood safely but I also recognize that they can't be everywhere all the time so they rely on us to call. It's a catch 22.

als4532 said:
I guess I had two points that spiraled here. One was just wondering what the cops were up to in terms of cracking down on people posing as PSEG or whatever and breaking in and then separately being super annoyed by the solar people or other door to door sales folks.

Speaking to the other points about race and police - I'll call the cops on the sales people from now on regardless of race, but in terms of "suspicious behavior" I'll rarely, if ever, call. I'd rather see someone lose $800 worth of lawn equipment than another young black man be shot and killed by a cop.
I realize there is a bit of a "does not compute" moment in my thinking above, but I suppose part of it has to do with me personally not wanting to call the cops and just hoping they police the neighborhood safely but I also recognize that they can't be everywhere all the time so they rely on us to call. It's a catch 22.

 Here is where I have a problem.  Its not okay to call the police when someone sees a black male looking suspicious because that is racism.  But it is okay to say "I wouldn't call the police because I don't want to see another black man be shot and killed by the cops".  How is it ok to imply every cop will shoot and kill every black male they have an interaction with? 

Think about the number of stops done every day, how many of them end in a shooting by police?  How many black males get stopped and have a positive interaction with the police?  

Saying police officers are going to shoot and kill every black male they encounter is the same as me saying every black male I encounter is a criminal.  The numbers aren't there to support either scenario.

Ml1 are you implying every white man who calls the police on a suspicious black male is doing so because they are all racists?   What is wrong with the default of calling the police when they see something suspicious?  Because they are white and the other is black? Would it be ok if both were white?

I guess the whole "If you see something, say something" campaign is just a racial tactic. 

Not everything is racial.

Now you can start the flames and call me a racist.  Its so easy to do l, and just as easy to get the support of all those who calling me a racist makes them feel better about themselves. 

EricBurbank said:

Ml1 are you implying every white man who calls the police on a suspicious black male is doing so because they are all racists?   What is wrong with the default of calling the police when they see something suspicious?  Because they are white and the other is black? Would it be ok if both were white?

Of course I'm not implying that.  I'm just suggesting that a lot of the times the behavior is only considered "suspicious" based on the person's skin color.  Like sitting in a parked car.  Or walking into an apartment building.

White Woman Who Blocked Black Neighbor From Building Is Fired

and sometimes white people can do very suspicious looking things and no one stops them:

https://abcnews.go.com/WhatWouldYouDo/video/bike-thief-caught-act-portland-36674396

I'm not suggesting that if someone is doing something really suspicious, like sneaking around your property that you don't call the police.  I'm suggesting we need to ask ourselves if the behavior would be "suspicious" if it was a white person engaging in it.

EricBurbank said:
 Here is where I have a problem.  Its not okay to call the police when someone sees a black male looking suspicious because that is racism.  But it is okay to say "I wouldn't call the police because I don't want to see another black man be shot and killed by the cops".  How is it ok to imply every cop will shoot and kill every black male they have an interaction with? 


Think about the number of stops done every day, how many of them end in a shooting by police?  How many black males get stopped and have a positive interaction with the police?  


Saying police officers are going to shoot and kill every black male they encounter is the same as me saying every black male I encounter is a criminal.  The numbers aren't there to support either scenario.

I'd rather just not take the chance, to be honest. Even if the likelihood is low or the numbers don't support it. Someone's life is more valuable than some property. 

It's like wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle. It just takes that one time.

I think that's a reasonable way to think about it. Either worst case scenario is unlikely but one outcome is much worse.

If it's an actual thief that gets away that's a monetary loss for the owner.

If it's a person with legitimate business in the neighborhood who ends up in a bad encounter with the police, even just an arrest, let alone violence, that's a much worse outcome. 

I don't think anyone suggested that every encounter with a black man and the police ends up with the police shooting him. 

ml1, I can agree with that.

als4532 and Mrincredible, I agree the one outcome is much worse.  I would never consider property more valuable than a life.  That being said, its not just a monetary lose in the other outcome.  It makes one feel violated and scared when something has been stolen from you. Sometimes it is more prevalent than other times but both leave you feeling violated.

I have been a victim of crimes throughout my life and theft ranks up there with other criminal acts.  Not in a violent way but a mental way.  

I have also been a target of police harassment when I was a teen.  I had a muscle car that the local police did not like for some reason (ok, maybe I may have done some crazy things with the car   ).  To be continued later.

als4532 said:

EricBurbank said:
 Here is where I have a problem.  Its not okay to call the police when someone sees a black male looking suspicious because that is racism.  But it is okay to say "I wouldn't call the police because I don't want to see another black man be shot and killed by the cops".  How is it ok to imply every cop will shoot and kill every black male they have an interaction with? 


Think about the number of stops done every day, how many of them end in a shooting by police?  How many black males get stopped and have a positive interaction with the police?  


Saying police officers are going to shoot and kill every black male they encounter is the same as me saying every black male I encounter is a criminal.  The numbers aren't there to support either scenario.

I'd rather just not take the chance, to be honest. Even if the likelihood is low or the numbers don't support it. Someone's life is more valuable than some property. 
It's like wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle. It just takes that one time.

 If you witnessed a mugging rather than a possible non-violent theft, would you still be reluctant to call the police? 

I think those of you who know me (even if only through MOL) know I am a law and order kind of guy.  My father was a cop in Jersey City, my son and my brother-in-law are cops in MD, and even I was in the police academy for Montclair until I injured my ankle. I am sure this has/will influence my opinion when it comes to attacks against law enforcement.  However, If a cop is proven to be a racist or if it is proven that his actions are that of a racist I will be right there to condemn him.  However, the same attitude is not shared by many of those who believe every time a cop shoots a black male it was racially motivated or an unjustified shooting even before all the facts are in.  This has been shown on this board by quite a few posters as well as by many residents in town.