Trump fans the flames of rage in the Middle East

Elizabeth

Really?? Trump moves the political center of Israel, thereby potentially creating yet another crisis of mammoth proportions. I believe he timed this move to take attention away from the vagaries of his misadventures in Russia/Deutsche bank, and other intensifying forces of the Mueller investigation. Donald either thinks he is Yahweh, or King of the world, or both. He couldn't cause enough tension by going to the Wailing Wall. I think.we better pray, because I think we are in danger. 


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shoshannah

Trump does not "move" the capital to Jerusalem. Israel is a sovereign country. Other countries do not get to decide where Israel's capital is. Jerusalem has always been the capital of Israel. The Knesset is in Jerusalem. The prime minster's residence is in Jerusalem. The Israel Supreme Court is in Jerusalem. It's the capital. It has been the "political center," as you call it, of Israel since 1950.

But all countries that have ties with Israel have their embassies in Tel Aviv so as not to upset the delicate balance of political affairs in that corner of the world. DJT announced he'd move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem, the capital. This has been the wet dream of right wing Jews for a long time.


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Gary

Hallelujah! Jerusalem is the capital of Israel so of course the US should recognize that fact. This is a way overdue decision and the correctness of it is not diminished by the fact that it is Trump doing it. Any one in the world upset can just F off. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Period. End of story. 


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yahooyahoo

Wasn't Jared in charge of bringing a peace agreement to the Middle East?  How's that going?


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Ridley

This'll devastate the house prices in NoVa.


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RobB


Burner said:

Hallelujah! Jerusalem is the capital of Israel so of course the US should recognize that fact. This is a way overdue decision and the correctness of it is not diminished by the fact that it is Trump doing it. Any one in the world upset can just F off. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Period. End of story. 

America first. Amirite?


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mfpark

Shoshanna is right, mostly.  Congress voted to move the embassy to Jerusalem, but also gave the President the right to determine when that will happen.  Presidents have been deferring this for a long time.

Trump is not going to move the embassy anytime soon, I think.  So this is not a big issue.

What is much more problematic is that he is going to openly recognize an undivided Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.  This is what is radically different about what he is about to do.

My initial reaction is that this is needlessly inflammatory in a region that is moving closer to war every day.  Hezbollah has more rockets now than ever before by a factor of dozens.  They are certainly not amassing these arms for defensive purposes.  Syria seems to be slowly winding down with a victory for Syria, Iran, and Hezbollah, and it is not hard to foresee them turning their resources and battle-hardened veterans loose on Israel (with Russian support, btw).  Hamas and Fatah are once again pretending to merge their interests to unite the Palestinians, although this likely will fall apart as it always does.  Still, Trump's announcement provides a focal point for both Palestinian camps to focus their people's anger on Israel and not on the kleptocracies that rule them.

On the other hand, perhaps Trump and Netanyahu are making a good bet that Israel can win the next war and/or Intifada and once again scatter Palestinian demands into the winds for a few years?


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Gary


mfpark said:

What is much more problematic is that he is going to openly recognize an undivided Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.  This is what is radically different about what he is about to do.

We will find out at about 1PM but I am not sure that is correct:

"A U.S. official and a source close to the White House told ABC News that official recognition of Jerusalem as the capital is expected to be intentionally broad and not meant to preclude the possibility that the Palestinians could claim part of the historic city as a capital of a future Palestinian state. The president does not want to "prejudice" the outcome of any future peace negotiations for a two-state solution, one source familiar with the plan told ABC News."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-expected-declare-jerusalem-capital-israel/story?id=51600561



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mfpark


Burner said:



mfpark said:

What is much more problematic is that he is going to openly recognize an undivided Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.  This is what is radically different about what he is about to do.

We will find out at about 1PM but I am not sure that is correct:

"A U.S. official and a source close to the White House told ABC News that official recognition of Jerusalem as the capital is expected to be intentionally broad and not meant to preclude the possibility that the Palestinians could claim part of the historic city as a capital of a future Palestinian state. The president does not want to "prejudice" the outcome of any future peace negotiations for a two-state solution, one source familiar with the plan told ABC News."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-expected-declare-jerusalem-capital-israel/story?id=51600561

That would be good, and certainly a change from what has been hinted at prior to this.  I am guessing that more rational voices prevailed in the White House, probably pushed by the very strong reactions from Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

Which then raises the question:  If Trump is not moving the embassy anytime soon, and if he is not changing the US stance to date that Jerusalem needs to be resolved between both parties, why did he do this in a fashion that was guaranteed to galvanize Palestinians and their Arab sponsors?  



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yahooyahoo

I think Trump has no idea what he is doing concerning the Middle East.

He believes he does, but in reality he's being manipulated by internal and external stakeholders that are much smarter than Trump.

mfpark said:



Burner said:



mfpark said:

What is much more problematic is that he is going to openly recognize an undivided Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.  This is what is radically different about what he is about to do.

We will find out at about 1PM but I am not sure that is correct:

"A U.S. official and a source close to the White House told ABC News that official recognition of Jerusalem as the capital is expected to be intentionally broad and not meant to preclude the possibility that the Palestinians could claim part of the historic city as a capital of a future Palestinian state. The president does not want to "prejudice" the outcome of any future peace negotiations for a two-state solution, one source familiar with the plan told ABC News."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-expected-declare-jerusalem-capital-israel/story?id=51600561

That would be good, and certainly a change from what has been hinted at prior to this.  I am guessing that more rational voices prevailed in the White House, probably pushed by the very strong reactions from Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

Which then raises the question:  If Trump is not moving the embassy anytime soon, and if he is not changing the US stance to date that Jerusalem needs to be resolved between both parties, why did he do this in a fashion that was guaranteed to galvanize Palestinians and their Arab sponsors?  



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ina

It's a distraction from the Mueller probe.


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mfpark

Schumer apparently lobbied him to do this for Israel's anniversary.



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Gary

If so I have a new-found admiration for Schumer.


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mfpark

Two of Schumer's biggest donor groups are AIPAC and Wall Street.  He often (but not always) breaks with other liberals on issues related to Israel and Wall Street.


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mfpark

I am still not hearing anything here or in my other forums about how this move by Trump right now does anything positive for the situation or for Israel, given that as Burner quoted it really is more fluff than substantive political change--but unfortunately in the Middle East, fluff becomes the locus for violence very quickly.


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Jackson Fusion


mfpark said:

Two of Schumer's biggest donor groups are AIPAC and Wall Street.  He often (but not always) breaks with other liberals on issues related to Israel and Wall Street.

In fairness to Chuck, Wall Street is in his constituency. 


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shoshannah


Burner said:

"A U.S. official and a source close to the White House told ABC News ... The president does not want to "prejudice" the outcome of any future peace negotiations for a two-state solution, one source familiar with the plan told ABC News."

hahahah!! Good luck with that.


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Elizabeth


mfpark said:



Burner said:



mfpark said:

What is much more problematic is that he is going to openly recognize an undivided Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.  This is what is radically different about what he is about to do.

We will find out at about 1PM but I am not sure that is correct:

"A U.S. official and a source close to the White House told ABC News that official recognition of Jerusalem as the capital is expected to be intentionally broad and not meant to preclude the possibility that the Palestinians could claim part of the historic city as a capital of a future Palestinian state. The president does not want to "prejudice" the outcome of any future peace negotiations for a two-state solution, one source familiar with the plan told ABC News."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-expected-declare-jerusalem-capital-israel/story?id=51600561

That would be good, and certainly a change from what has been hinted at prior to this.  I am guessing that more rational voices prevailed in the White House, probably pushed by the very strong reactions from Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

Which then raises the question:  If Trump is not moving the embassy anytime soon, and if he is not changing the US stance to date that Jerusalem needs to be resolved between both parties, why did he do this in a fashion that was guaranteed to galvanize Palestinians and their Arab sponsors?  

My guess is he did this to throw smoke and fire on the Mueller investigation of his money-laundering efforts. Also, MSNBC is claiming it's to pay back Adelson and other right-wing donors.


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Elizabeth


ina said:

It's a distraction from the Mueller probe.

Exactly.


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ml1



RobB said:



Burner said:

Hallelujah! Jerusalem is the capital of Israel so of course the US should recognize that fact. This is a way overdue decision and the correctness of it is not diminished by the fact that it is Trump doing it. Any one in the world upset can just F off. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Period. End of story. 

America first. Amirite?

maybe not so much.


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dave23

So he said that he fulfilled the campaign promise to move the embassy, then signed another 6-month waiver?


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LOST


mfpark said:



Which then raises the question:  If Trump is not moving the embassy anytime soon, and if he is not changing the US stance to date that Jerusalem needs to be resolved between both parties, why did he do this in a fashion that was guaranteed to galvanize Palestinians and their Arab sponsors?  

Those folks don't get to vote in the 2018 Midterms or the 2020 Presidential


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joanne

look what’s happening in Korea, as well as here; think about various festivals for timing as well as politics... it’s always very multi-layered.

Don’t you have a government spending review or something coming up in a couple of days???


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dave23

He tries to prevent his dentures from falling out through most of the announcement, but they begin to come unglued around 10:00.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-jerusalem-speech-capital-israel-live-stream/


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sprout
dave23 said:

He tries to prevent his dentures from falling out through most of the announcement, but they begin to come unglued around 10:00.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-jerusalem-speech-capital-israel-live-stream/

Wow - it's not subtle. It looks like motion that might be seen in a movie when someone's mind control mechanism starts glitching out, or the robot inside is about to be revealed because the batteries are running low.


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dave23


sprout said:


dave23 said:

He tries to prevent his dentures from falling out through most of the announcement, but they begin to come unglued around 10:00.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-jerusalem-speech-capital-israel-live-stream/

Wow - it's not subtle. It looks like motion that might be seen in a movie when someone's mind control mechanism starts glitching out, or the robot inside is about to be revealed because the batteries are running low.

Yeah, gets worse and worse. He concludes by blessing the United Shtashtesh. I'd give most people a pass but he deserves the humiliation. 


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shoshannah


dave23 said:

He tries to prevent his dentures from falling out through most of the announcement, but they begin to come unglued around 10:00.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-jerusalem-speech-capital-israel-live-stream/

Does he really wear dentures?? Deutsche Bank didn't lend him enough for implants??


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ml1


dave23 said:



sprout said:


dave23 said:

He tries to prevent his dentures from falling out through most of the announcement, but they begin to come unglued around 10:00.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-jerusalem-speech-capital-israel-live-stream/

Wow - it's not subtle. It looks like motion that might be seen in a movie when someone's mind control mechanism starts glitching out, or the robot inside is about to be revealed because the batteries are running low.

Yeah, gets worse and worse. He concludes by blessing the United Shtashtesh. I'd give most people a pass but he deserves the humiliation. 

I hate that our politicians all feel the need to end their speeches with "God bless the United States!"  But it's even more galling when a terrible person like Trump does it.


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DottyParker


dave23 said:

He tries to prevent his dentures from falling out through most of the announcement, but they begin to come unglued around 10:00.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-jerusalem-speech-capital-israel-live-stream/

Those damned kiwi seeds.  I thought Trump had implants. The slurring was really noticeable.  This is why the big deal with the annual physical for POTUS.  


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ml1

he has the best teeth.  People are saying they're the most fantastic teeth anyone has ever seen.  And no one knows more about teeth than I do, believe me.


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