trashed daily, Dehart Park, a once beautiful oasis,

Bullshyte

Tall_Mocha said:

 The first thread, the original poster mentioned he struck up a conversation and found out where they were from. As a person who has lived in Maplewood for well over ten years, it's safe to say we def can spot the "out of towners" quite quickly, and it's due to their lack of respect for our properties. And when in doubt all u have to do is ask, and I'd say about 100 percent of the time their answer is always from out of town, so spare me. Out of town doesn't mean black and or minorities. It simply means not from here

excuse me, but this is a pile of horsepoop.

You think that hometown adolescents don't make a mess? hilarious

And how many times have you asked people for their hometowns, to arrive at your data collection of "about 100%"? 

Or is that your hobby, driving around town and asking people where they live?

drummerboy said:

excuse me, but this is a pile of horsepoop.

You think that hometown adolescents don't make a mess? hilarious

And how many times have you asked people for their hometowns, to arrive at your data collection of "about 100%"? 

Or is that your hobby, driving around town and asking people where they live?

 not to mention that the OP didn't claim to have struck up a conversation to find out where the players were from.

Tall_Mocha said:

The first thread, the original poster mentioned he struck up a conversation and found out where they were from. As a person who has lived in Maplewood for well over ten years, it's safe to say we def can spot the "out of towners" quite quickly, and it's due to their lack of respect for our properties. And when in doubt all u have to do is ask, and I'd say about 100 percent of the time their answer is always from out of town, so spare me. Out of town doesn't mean black and or minorities. It simply means not from here

I think you're 100% wrong and either naive, disingenuous, or both.

Here we go, a quick primer on dog-whistling.

The first poster noted that being "Latino and from Newark himself" he oftentimes traveled to other towns...

apser said:

Formerlyjerseyjack said:

Need clarification. Did YOU ask the tykes where they were from? Or are you suggesting that authorities ask them?

Firstly, I didn't interrogate anyone; I joined in their basketball game (with my face mask on) and conversed with them... as a Latino myself, growing up in Newark, I visited municipal parks in other towns. What I never did though was drive dirt bikes thru them, or leave used condoms and marijuana butts there, or blast music until 11:00 PM, things which have gotten worse and worse in Dehart over the 20 years I've lived here.

If 'out of town' doesn't mean Black or 'minorities', why does the OP mention Newark or being Latino at all? What does his ethnicity or hometown have to do with trash in the park? Why does he define the actions/makeup of the group by likening/comparing or contrasting his movements to theirs? He does that to let other posters know who the 'out of towners' are upfront. He's dog-whistling and you picked up on it and expanded on it. You bought into it then and you're feigning ignorance now in an attempt to sidestep your part in perpetuating racist BS.

apser said:

yahooyahoo said:

So you conversed with a few and deducted that most of the one hundred kids (or "mob") were from Union and Irvington?

yes, I deduced that, the fact that I've lived in the neighborhood, on the border of both towns for twenty years, notwithstanding....

I also based my deduction on having had the ofttimes delightful experience of chasing out-of-town kids out of the yards and driveways of every single one of my neighbors homes, while they were endeavoring to steal stuff off their decks & from their garages, not to mention my own.

Here the first poster suggests that he can easily identify 'out of towners' because he's lived next door to them for 20 years. Remarkable. I've lived next door to West Orange for 15 years and I have no way of differentiating between who lives there and who lives a block behind me in South Orange.

In the event that you don't buy into his geographic-ethno-ID-super-power idiocy he provides a clincher. He increases the dog whistle volume to the max by linking the 'out of towners' playing basketball in his neighborhood in the present to other 'out of towners' he's prevented from stealing things from his neighbors in the past. He's suggesting that they are, or can be interchangeable or that they are one and the same. So now, for him and his audience (you) the connection is complete, basketball players = thieves. Fear and xenophobia.

And then you offer this scientific evaluation of what you call 'obvious out of towners' based on their physicality:

Tall_Mocha said:

UGGH! I KNEW those courts would be a major problem! I used to frequent Dehart with the kids because it's walking distance, the park used to be small quiet and lovely, Over the years it's become rowdy with obvious out of towners, it's not difficult to tell they kids/teens/adults are from another area. The way they play, and engage tells you right away, they throw their trash, they're rough on the equipment and the parents Don't enforce rules and or have them use their manners. Anyway, when I saw the model for the court I thought "Great, a nice addition to the park" BUT I knew it would bring a lot of out of towners. Most basketball courts these days don't have the net. I hope they will appreciate the court and not ruin it. Nothing against people coming from other areas, I have my issue with the lack of respect for the park and it's equipment

For emphasis: "with obvious out of towners, it's not difficult to tell they kids/teens/adults are from another area. The way they play, and engage tells you right away..."

You also explain that 'out of towner' behavior is a generational problem involving kids, teens, and their parents? You say your skill set includes the ability to tell they're from 'out of town' right away. You've got to be joking. You can tell they're from 'out of town' by the way they move? This would be hilarious if it wasn't pathetic.

Tall_Mocha said:

apser said:

here's a lovely shot I took just this morning, of how our new out-of-town Dehart park visitors are contributing to what was once a lovely, peaceful place for the neighborhood to relax... thanks town council..

UGGH! This is NOT ok and so disrespectful. I am annoyed just by looking at this photo. It will get cleaned up, they'll return and see that it looks like new and proceed to do the same thing again because" Somebody will clean it up" it's like they want to enjoy the nice things but then they're angry because they don't have the nice things. If that makes sense.

Here, you are expanding your dog whistling contribution to include a forecast of 'out of towner' behavior presumably based on your vast knowledge of the typical 'out of towner' belief system. Is this information transferable for all out of towners as you define them? Do out of towners from Summit, Livingston, Short Hills, Millburn, Westfield, New York and Connecticut feel this same way?

One of the secondary objectives of racism and the persistent employment of racist tropes and the perpetual presentation of white supremacist ideas is distraction. The idea is to create an environment where the target spends inordinate amounts of time explaining or justifying his/her existence, instead of simply enjoying life. This objective works the same for “allies” (not as personal obviously, but similar) who point out racism- they become enmeshed in arguments about what is or what isn’t racism and in doing so never address the actual racism.

So, with that, this is my last contribution to this thread.

Life's short- don't spend it spreading hate.

flimbro said:

Here, you are expanding your dog whistling contribution to include a forecast of 'out of towner' behavior presumably based on your vast knowledge of the typical 'out of towner' belief system. Is this information transferable for all out of towners as you define them? Do out of towners from Summit, Livingston, Short Hills, Millburn, Westfield, New York and Connecticut feel this same way?

One of the secondary objectives of racism and the persistent employment of racist tropes and the perpetual presentation of white supremacist ideas is distraction. The idea is to create an environment where the target spends inordinate amounts of time explaining or justifying his/her existence, instead of simply enjoying life. This objective works the same for “allies” (not as personal obviously, but similar) who point out racism- they become enmeshed in arguments about what is or what isn’t racism and in doing so never address the actual racism.

So, with that, this is my last contribution to this thread.

Life's short- don't spend it spreading hate.

 Wow filmbro.  You got this all figured out.  Good for you.

@quercus

I'm not sure if you're saying that in earnest, or if it's supposed to be a quick bit of sarcasm because you have no better response to Flimbro's detailed breakdown of the text and subtext.

sprout said:

@quercus

I'm not sure if you're saying that in earnest, or if it's supposed to be a quick bit of sarcasm because you have no better response to Flimbro's detailed breakdown of the text and subtext.

 I'm sure which one it is.

racist nonsense aside. It would be good if there was a way to have the courts be available for middle and high school kids to play, where they don’t have to to try and play with grown men. About 30 seconds after the courts opened, the kids couldn’t play. 

Call the Maplewood Recreation department. They provide permits for the DeHart multipurpose field. If requested, they may do permits for the basketball courts. 

Here's the thing...not all "prejudice" is race-based. 

the wrong side of the tracks

A part of a town or city that is particularly impoverished (and usually dangerous or undesirable as a result). "Tracks" refers to railroad tracks, which are sometimes thought of as demarcating different economic areas of a town.

Flimbro arguing no one can say its out of towners because to do or even imply so is "dog whistling."

Would he be satisfied if they are from M/SO? What does that then say about M/SO? A community that has pigs disrespecting their park? You may as well have wild animals rooting through garbage. A community where this complaint is shifted to agonizing over racism by the “I am so diverse and pat me on the back because I’m not racist” group?

Floyd said:

Flimbro arguing no one can say its out of towners because to do or even imply so is "dog whistling."

Would he be satisfied if they are from M/SO? What does that then say about M/SO? A community that has pigs disrespecting their park? You may as well have wild animals rooting through garbage. A community where this complaint is shifted to agonizing over racism by the “I am so diverse and pat me on the back because I’m not racist” group?

 The argument isn’t  that it was okay to trash the place.  He even said so.  Had that been the sole argument 3/4 of this thread wouldn’t be here and no one would be disagreeing.  

The problem is the comment about out of towners doing this.  Basically, how can you just look at someone and know they’re from out of town?  You can’t.  

And to cut you off at the pass, my mother often wears shirts that say Newark and not only has she never lived in Newark, she has also been a Maplewood homeowner for nearly 40 years. So saying they were wearing clothing that identified them as out of towners doesn’t fly.

I used to dispatch for a few different PDs, I can tell you that whenever I answered a call that stated “they don’t look like they’re from around here” 100% of the time the description of the person would be black/African American.  White people would also be called in as looking/acting suspicious, but they didn’t get the “they don’t look like they’re from around here” added on.

Issue 1: How to change the conduct of litterbugs. 

Issue 2: How to change the conduct of persons whose loud music messes up other persons' chances to have some peace in the park. 

Non-Issue: Where the litterbugs/loud-music players live.

And

Issue #3: How to share the resource.

Issue # 1:  Contract out enforcement of littering ordinances to the South Orange Parking Authority. Litterers would be ticketed before their trash landed on the ground. SO and Maplewood could share the revenues and our taxes go down!  Problem solved.

Trumpers gonna Trump. 

sprout said:

Call the Maplewood Recreation department. They provide permits for the DeHart multipurpose field. If requested, they may do permits for the basketball courts. 

 Permits would be an excellent idea! 

For reference on how the permits for the multi-purpose field worked, during our timeslot we had priority as permit holders. But the field can be used by anyone when no permitted group is playing.

In the past, we reserved the full multipurpose field for a couple hours each week, but generally we only needed 2/3rds of the field. There was a group of Haitian soccer players who would come out at the same time and use the remaining 1/3 of the field. We had a cordial relationship with their group, and clarified some field use expectations (e.g., don't use the field when it is squishy wet - they are supposed to be closed then so they don't get ruined).  

As none us want our use of the field to get pulled, there was a mutual respect for the space. As all were appreciative of athleticism, the occasional cheer or applause would come from one field in recognition of an exciting play on the other's field.

I bring this up as an example of a way to use permits for comfortable sharing of resources and building community -- which I recommend over trying to use permits primarily to exclude.