Township Pension

Surprised one guy worked for 6 years, yet gets a $30,000 pension.


He knows people, it's Jersey. Keep it under your hat krugle.


it may be a disability pension, but go ahead and attack, destroy, and be opinionated.


Person could have had other public employment in NJ prior to being appointed by Maplewood.



joan_crystal said:

Person could have had other public employment in NJ prior to being appointed by Maplewood.

Months of service can be verified here:

http://php.app.com/agent/governmentretirees/search


I like that there are a couple of people over 100 years of age still collecting pensions. Good for them. One is 107 years old.


The oldest person on the list was born in 1950 which makes him 66.

What is the purpose of this thread? Retired Police Officers, Fire Fighters and other Township employees are part of the State Pension system, which is part of the terms of their employment.




LOST said:

The oldest person on the list was born in 1950 which makes him 66.

What is the purpose of this thread. Retired Police Officers, Fire Fighters and other Township employees are part of the State Pension system, which is part of the terms of their employment.

Maybe you were only looking at the first page. I think the list has like 278 people listed, many of them collecting for 30+ years.



LOST said:

The oldest person on the list was born in 1950 which makes him 66.

What is the purpose of this thread. Retired Police Officers, Fire Fighters and other Township employees are part of the State Pension system, which is part of the terms of their employment.

Not quite.


I assume any policeman or fireman that retired at a younger age with a pension based on limited service must have done so because of disability.



alex4855 said:

Interesting look at Maplewood Township pensions.

http://nj-pensions.findthedata.com/d/b/Maplewood-Township

Instead of just writing "interesting look", perhaps the person who started the thread could explain the point that he or she was trying to make.

I know some of the individuals on the list, who served our towns. Absent whatever explanation from the person who started the thread, it looks like "alex4855" is trying to make people dislike them.

But, again, more of an explanation could clear things up.



jerseyjack said:

I like that there are a couple of people over 100 years of age still collecting pensions. Good for them. One is 107 years old.

Some of those pensions are probably going to a surviving spouse, or maybe minor children. Is there any other circumstance in which a family member would collect the pension?

For example:

Henry Turek was born in 1918 and retired from Trenton State Prison on March 1979 (37 years ago) after being employed for 31 years. A member of Turek's family collects an annual pension of $11,577, based off a salary of $0, that is funded by the POPF - Prison Officers' Pension Fund. Turek's monthly pension payment is $965.


kthnry said:



jerseyjack said:

I like that there are a couple of people over 100 years of age still collecting pensions. Good for them. One is 107 years old.

Some of those pensions are probably going to a surviving spouse, or maybe minor children. Is there any other circumstance in which a family member would collect the pension?

For example:


Henry Turek was born in 1918 and retired from Trenton State Prison on March 1979 (37 years ago) after being employed for 31 years. A member of Turek's family collects an annual pension of $11,577, based off a salary of $0, that is funded by the POPF - Prison Officers' Pension Fund. Turek's monthly pension payment is $965.

Surviving spouse would collect a pension. Offspring and possibly surviving dependent relatives would collect Workmens Comp which would not show up on the pension thread.



kthnry said:



jerseyjack said:

I like that there are a couple of people over 100 years of age still collecting pensions. Good for them. One is 107 years old.

Some of those pensions are probably going to a surviving spouse, or maybe minor children. Is there any other circumstance in which a family member would collect the pension?

For example:


Henry Turek was born in 1918 and retired from Trenton State Prison on March 1979 (37 years ago) after being employed for 31 years. A member of Turek's family collects an annual pension of $11,577, based off a salary of $0, that is funded by the POPF - Prison Officers' Pension Fund. Turek's monthly pension payment is $965.

There is still a Civil War pension being paid out to a beneficiary. question


How much do employees contribute to their pension, on a percentage basis?


It's a STATE pension system. Not sure what the beef is. Honestly, I don't see anything in that list to object to, but plenty for other people to envy, perhaps. (There was a time when many, if not most, employees in major corporations had similar or better pension arrangements, but sadly the anti-labor sentiments of recent years have eradicated much of that.)



jerseyjack said:



kthnry said:



jerseyjack said:

I like that there are a couple of people over 100 years of age still collecting pensions. Good for them. One is 107 years old.

Some of those pensions are probably going to a surviving spouse, or maybe minor children. Is there any other circumstance in which a family member would collect the pension?

For example:


Henry Turek was born in 1918 and retired from Trenton State Prison on March 1979 (37 years ago) after being employed for 31 years. A member of Turek's family collects an annual pension of $11,577, based off a salary of $0, that is funded by the POPF - Prison Officers' Pension Fund. Turek's monthly pension payment is $965.

Surviving spouse would collect a pension. Offspring and possibly surviving dependent relatives would collect Workmens Comp which would not show up on the pension thread.

I got curious and looked around a little. Stephanie Turek, Henry's wife, died on October 3, 2014. She was predeceased by Henry, but I can't find a date of death for him. Could someone else still be collecting the pension? Maybe the pension board was never notified of her death and some ne'er-do-well offspring is still cashing the checks? Or maybe the records on that web site are a couple years behind? Guess I'll have to check a few more examples.

http://www.saulfuneralhomes.com/obituary/Stephanie-Turek/Hamilton-NJ/1436840


Arthur J. Zinn was born in 1918 and retired from Maplewood Township on December 1976 (40 years ago) after being employed for 25 years. A member of Zinn's family collects an annual pension of $20,265, based off a salary of $15,389, that is funded by the PFRS - Police and Firemen's Retirement System. Zinn's monthly pension payment is $1,689.

But ...

ZINN - Margaret M. (nee Jung) 95, of Haledon on August 18, 2002. Beloved wife of the late Arthur Zinn (1982). Devoted mother of Arthur Zinn Jr. of Haledon. Loving grandmother of Brian Zinn of Haledon. Private Graveside Service. The family request donations be made to the Haledon Ambulance, 407 Morrissee Avenue, Haledon, NJ 07508. Arrangements by Vander Plaat-Vermeulen Memorial Home, 530 High Mountain Road, Franklin Lakes.

I can't be 100% sure this is the correct Arthur Zinn, but it seems likely. Also, it's interesting how many pensioners are receiving pensions that are higher than the salary it's based on



krugle said:

How much do employees contribute to their pension, on a percentage basis?

I suspect it's a "defined benefit" plan which means the employee's contribution is in labor, not money. This is different from modern savings plans which are "defined contribution" plans, where employees pay into it and sometimes employers also do.



kthnry said:


Arthur J. Zinn was born in 1918 and retired from Maplewood Township on December 1976 (40 years ago) after being employed for 25 years. A member of Zinn's family collects an annual pension of $20,265, based off a salary of $15,389, that is funded by the PFRS - Police and Firemen's Retirement System. Zinn's monthly pension payment is $1,689.

But ...
ZINN - Margaret M. (nee Jung) 95, of Haledon on August 18, 2002. Beloved wife of the late Arthur Zinn (1982). Devoted mother of Arthur Zinn Jr. of Haledon. Loving grandmother of Brian Zinn of Haledon. Private Graveside Service. The family request donations be made to the Haledon Ambulance, 407 Morrissee Avenue, Haledon, NJ 07508. Arrangements by Vander Plaat-Vermeulen Memorial Home, 530 High Mountain Road, Franklin Lakes.

I can't be 100% sure this is the correct Arthur Zinn, but it seems likely. Also, it's interesting how many pensioners are receiving pensions that are higher than the salary it's based on

Pensions are likely tied to cost of living increases.



Tom_Reingold said:



krugle said:

How much do employees contribute to their pension, on a percentage basis?

I suspect it's a "defined benefit" plan which means the employee's contribution is in labor, not money. This is different from modern savings plans which are "defined contribution" plans, where employees pay into it and sometimes employers also do.

Employees do pay into DB plans. The major difference between DB and DC plans is who bears the risk of shortfall.

In a DB plan it is the employer, who is responsible for making sure the plan is funded enough to pay out promised benefits. They are responsible for allocating capital to ensure same, both in terms of contributions and asset allocation.

In a DC plan the risk is with the employee, who is responsible for figuring out their needs in retirement and then funding and allocating accordingly.

Public pensions are promised at the point of hire and then allocated for over the life of the employee. The problem is, by the nature of when benefits are paid out, the guy who agreed to a given level of benefits is loooooooonnnngg gone by the time it's time to pay. So I can for example promise you massive cash if I'm elected- but by the time the pension blows up I am way out of public service and maybe even dead of old age.

So lets say I'm governor today- someone else made these promises. My pension returns suck. To fund the pension I need to come up with massive dollars- taken in the form of taxes from people who were kids, if they were even born yet, when the promises were made. I say no. Another year goes by of crap returns. Now because of what amounts to reverse compounding, I am even more underfunded and need to cut an even bigger check. But I kick the can down the road again.

Not a political comment on the current state of NJ.... just the reality of public DB plans. There is a reason why private business ran away from them. The numbers get so big that they become the single biggest line item on financial statements- bigger than the actual business the company is in!



I'm happy that people get pensions, and remember the day when it was much more common. But do have to say, many of these pensions are extremely high. They look to be in the 80% range.



Jackson_Fusion said:

Employees do pay into DB plans. The major difference between DB and DC plans is who bears the risk of shortfall.

The employee also gets the benefit of better than expected returns. It works both ways.


Thank you for stating it more completely @Jackson_Fusion.

Too bad a governor who underfunds pensions doesn't get punished after leaving office. It's anther unfulfillable promise if he/she doesn't take the obligation seriously.



Tom_Reingold said:

Thank you for stating it more completely @Jackson_Fusion.

Too bad a governor who underfunds pensions doesn't get punished after leaving office. It's anther unfulfillable promise if he/she doesn't take the obligation seriously.

It's so much more complicated than that, unfortunately.

The governor represents the entire state, all citizens, not just public employees. There are sooooo many things that can be done to minimize current pension liabilities and by result current contributions- for example, wishcasting that your average return will be 8%. Now when I calculate the state contribution I have a much smaller number because I assume the market will take care of it. Problem solved! I fully funded it. Not my fault!

If the actuarial expected return is in our example decreased from 8% to 7% it is a MASSIVE check that needs to be cut- and that check comes from the taxpayers. You can only tax people so much. So what to do? I'll cut other funding to fund the pension.

Nobody wants that either.

Remember, the current governor, any governor, likely did not dig the hole. The promises were made a generation ago. Prior administrations over estimated returns and under payed into the system. Public employees freaked out when it was suggested they up their contribution (not always but often). Widespread nonsense was permitted for "marking" pension levels- often it is the average of the last 3 years salary- so let's make everyone chief for their last 3! Wink wink!

There are a lot of fingers to point. Unions advocated for their members- as they should. Politicians courted their votes- as they must. Current office holders managed for today, not 30 years from now, as they would. If they didn't, tomorrow's voters would thank them, but today's voters would fire them when they got the bill.

So ultimately the fault lays mostly with the voters in the end, who had ultimate authority but figured someone else would pay. Well.... guess what?



It points to (1) the need for an informed voting public, which it seems we don't have and also for (2) an honest elected government, which we also don't have. I don't live in NJ any more, but NY (where I am now) doesn't seem any better overall.



Tom_Reingold said:

It points to (1) the need for an informed voting public, which it seems we don't have and also for (2) an honest elected government, which we also don't have. I don't live in NJ any more, but NY (where I am now) doesn't seem any better overall.

NY is and isn't better than NJ. NY state has a bunch of different pension funds, as does NJ, so it depends on what ones we are looking at. NYC has its own bag of funds, nicknamed, I **** you not, the 5 Families.

Ultimately either governments get out of the DB game, either through phasing them out or going bust, at which point future employees will demand their own accounts ala DC plans, or employee benefits become the overwhelmingly largest public expenditure, bigger than any other government function.

Or the market can go to the moon and problem solved for a while. Cmon baby spin that wheel!


Is that 5 families term a mafia reference?


In order to add a comment – you must Join this community – Click here to do so.