The Superhero Movies

Watched Wonder Woman last night and my reaction was the same as for the majority of big budget comic hero movies that have come out in the last 15 years or so - massively overrated.   Was it terrible?  No.  Was it a way over long long mish mash of well worn elements from other fantasy and superhero movies?  Absolutely.  Was there witty and/or memorably romantic banter between WW and the Chris Pine character?  Yes, but way way too little. 

I was a huge comic book fan as a kid and I want these movies to be good.  Most of them aren't.  I've been putting off Black Panther for fear of disappointment.  

For the most part, I don't even bother. Not even on Netflix.

I’ve become more jaded with each film. There’s no real jeopardy for these characters, there’s no life outside the plot for them, real people barely exist anymore. The fight choreography is like watching rams in rutting season smash their horns together. The villains are so boring they’ve had to make films where they fight each other, and all we as an audience can do is ask “why?” Stupid, stupid movies.

So glad we got Star Wars back.

Of the conventional superhero movies, I thought the first 2 X Men movies and the last, "Logan", were worthy.   I also liked the second Captain America movie.

I find that there is a rule of inverse proportionality with these movies.   The longer, more grandiose, and CGI filled the action scenes, the more boring they get.  That's why the last Act of these movies, which are supposed to represent the exciting climax, are invariably dreadful.  Also, the bigger the danger, the bigger the bore.  The villain  wants to destroy the world? ZZZ.  The whole Universe? ZZZZZZZZZZZ.  A genuinely scary villain was Heath Ledger as the Joker for about the first half of that movie.  A psychopath who gets in your face and might impulsively stick a knife between your ribs  is scarier than McSupervillaino who is summoning up some vague energy thing from an alternative universe to destroy the world.  

The only great superhero movie, IMO, was the very unconventional "Unbreakable" by Shamlayan, with Bruce Willis and Samuel Jackson.  It, unlike most if this dreck, had an adult subtext and people with real problems and internal struggles.  There is a sequel coming out.

bub said:

The only great superhero movie, IMO, was the very unconventional "Unbreakable" by Shamlayan, with Bruce Willis and Samuel Jackson. It, unlike most if this dreck, had an adult subtext and people with real problems and internal struggles.  There is a sequel coming out.

I never saw “Unbreakable,” but did you ever see “Hancock”? I thought it worked on those terms, too.

And my (ethically questionable) plug for “Ant-Man”: There were a couple of good laughs in the final battle scenes, which I found refreshing. But the stakes in that movie were intentionally and almost by definition on a smaller, more intimate scale.

I've seen bits and pieces of Hancock while channel surfing.  Entertaining, but I have yet to see the whole thing.  Ethically questionable?  Are you getting royalties for Ant-Man?  Ant-Man was fun.    Certainly better than average for the superhero genre. 

bub said:

Ethically questionable?  Are you getting royalties for Ant-Man?  Ant-Man was fun.    Certainly better than average for the superhero genre. 

Glad you asked! I never miss a chance to mention that the director is an old friend.

And look for the sequel, Ant-Man and the Wasp, this July. Coming to a theater near you!

Thor Ragnarok was pretty damn funny/clever. I enjoyed it thoroughly. But I tend to stay away from the superhero movies these days, partly because I was never a fan of the Marvel Universe in the first place, and partly because DC's stable is kind of thin, especially since they screwed up Superman. I will probably see Black Panther though, even though I know literally nothing about his character.

And another plug for Unbreakable! Love that movie - though I'm wary of a sequel. Who's directing?

Hilarious. Guys, these are comic book superhero movies. The stakes will always be the end of the earth or the end of the universe, and the final scene will always be a huge, over-the-top battle between two completely unbelievable characters.

bub said:

I was a huge comic book fan as a kid and I want these movies to be good.  Most of them aren't.

Over the last few years I’ve been going back to some of the old comics I grew up with, and I’m currently in the late 1970s era of a complete re-read of The Amazing Spider-Man. I can almost guarantee you the vast majority of the comics you loved as a kid weren’t very good, either.

I'm sure that's true.  But I'll say this.  My daughter bought me the Ta Nehisi Coates penned Black Panther graphic novel a couple of years ago (it may be in whole or in part the basis of the movie, I don't know).  I found it too be impossibly literary, self-serious, and almost incomprehensible.  Appended to the novel was the original Fantastic Four comic where BP first appeared in the early 60s.  It was 100 times more fun than the novel.  The old stories may not hold up but the winking whimsy of Kirby and Lee shines through and still works.

 
Over the last few years I’ve been going back to some of the old comics I grew up with, and I’m currently in the late 1970s era of a complete re-read of The Amazing Spider-Man. I can almost guarantee you the vast majority of the comics you loved as a kid weren’t very good, either.

bub said:

It was 100 times more fun than the novel.  The old stories may not hold up but the winking whimsy of Kirby and Lee shines through and still works.

No doubt this is true, which is why I continue my re-read of some of the oldies. All I'm saying is the movies (IMO) are pretty much exactly what the comics are, just in a different medium. Which may be the difference that matters. It takes about a half hour or so to read a comic; the movies stretch essentially the same stories out to 2 hours or more.

I lost interest in comics sometime in the early 70s but my understanding is that they got a lot weirder, more interesting, and more adult in later years with the advent of graphic novels and writers who have achieved mainstream critical respectability.  Perhaps movies based on some of that stuff might be better but Marvel/Disney is not going to risk a billion dollars on a movie that does not close with a twenty minute CGI driven slugfest between good superpowers and bad ones. 

BrickPig said:

bub said:

It was 100 times more fun than the novel.  The old stories may not hold up but the winking whimsy of Kirby and Lee shines through and still works.

No doubt this is true, which is why I continue my re-read of some of the oldies. All I'm saying is the movies (IMO) are pretty much exactly what the comics are, just in a different medium. Which may be the difference that matters. It takes about a half hour or so to read a comic; the movies stretch essentially the same stories out to 2 hours or more.

Yours for $60,000: https://maplewood.worldwebs.com/classified/detail/large-marvel-comic-book-collection-for-sale-m

Ive already burned through my annual double figure book budget. 

DaveSchmidt said:

Yours for $60,000: https://maplewood.worldwebs.com/classified/detail/large-marvel-comic-book-collection-for-sale-m

bub said:

I lost interest in comics sometime in the early 70s but my understanding is that they got a lot weirder, more interesting, and more adult in later years with the advent of graphic novels and writers who have achieved mainstream critical respectability.

There have been some great comics in recent years, for sure, with and without superheroes. But in terms of the cinematic stuff we're discussing here, I think the various Marvel series that Netflix has put out have been much better overall than the theatrical movies. They've been much more adult, quite dark, extremely violent, and, admittedly, uneven. But they definitely are more interesting to me than the movies. (Although I've enjoyed most of the movies, too.) 

I have to admit being a big fan of Jessica Jones. The others were a bit pants though. I was very happy that none of the others were even referenced in the second JJ series. 

I watched the first two seasons of Daredevil.  Yes, uneven.  Very violent and tense but also very hokey at times.  D'Onofrio as the Kingpin was excellent and scary.  

re: CGI: what Bub said. Soulfulness, humanness, goes down as use of CGI goes up. Superheroes need super soul.

Usually after I see these movies I wonder - would I have liked this more if I was 12.  I like Jessica Jones and Daredevil.  But after awhile they started churning these out too much - I didn't get through Luke Cage. 

Maybe it's just hard cram a complex storyline into 2 hours.  Basically the first 30 minutes is an intro to the main characters - and next hour is to create the reason(build tension) to have the final 30 minute epic showdown where the good guy will probably win.

The only action movies that I have liked the past few years have been the recent Star Wars episodes and Deadpool.

jamie said:

Maybe it's just hard cram a complex storyline into 2 hours.  Basically the first 30 minutes is an intro to the main characters - and next hour is to create the reason(build tension) to have the final 30 minute epic showdown where the good guy will probably win.

[Semi-spoilers alert for Unbreakable and Black Panther]

I feel like that's what happened to "Unbreakable". I thought it was a really neat story... but there were parts that pulled me out of the story because it was just so over-coincidenced and trite (e.g., the pool). On the flip side, "trite" kind of has to happen, because, that's what would be included across the span of a a comic book series. 

(In Black Panther, the trite part seemed to be the instantaneous sending out of weaponry from Wakanda... (it's just so quick and easy to send piles of powerful weapons from a previously peaceful country) AND on top of that, they just happen to have a super-pilot and a hologram plane controller.  

But it's not just the superhero genre -- it's a lot of movies. For example, the kid happening to be a gymnast in (I think it was) Jurassic Park was also over-coincidental. I don't know if there's really a way around the cliche of seeing the super-talent (or tragic flaw) 30 minutes before it becomes essential in a 2 hour movie. 

With comic books, these things may seem more interesting because one can draw from things that were noted years earlier instead of minutes earlier.