The Obama Doctrine - A success?

Great article in the Atlantic about Obama's foreign policy:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/04/the-obama-doctrine/471525/

I'll start with a couple of comments.

I think Obama's foreign policy record was mixed.

Libya was a mistake - but as a part of the disaster that is the Middle East, perhaps not such a big deal.

I think he lost a battle with the defense establishment to lessen our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan. I think he would have preferred to do better.

His efforts to close GITMO make him an American Hero in my opinion.  GITMO is perhaps our greatest national embarrassment of the last 100 years. 

Issuing the "red line" warning to Syria was a bit of a mistake. He should have known how it would be played in the press.

Not following through on the warning was maybe his biggest foreign policy triumph. Any military response would be a disaster.

As per the article, Obama recognizes that the middle east's strategic importance to America's interest has decreased mightily, as we barely need their petroleum anymore.

It's also encouraging see that Obama acknowledges in private that our relationship with Saudi Arabia is noxious. It's discouraging that he can't sdo anything to change it. Win, defense establishment.

Compared to the presidents in my lifetime, I'd put Obama in the above average category. At the end of the day, our foreign involvement has lessened, maybe the ultimate measure of a President these days.

Progressive Presidents must fight the entrenched defense establishment to get their policies enacted - a task hidden from public view and one that the public is completely unaware of. I think Obama was moderately successful in getting his way, but overall I think the defense establishment is pleased - not a good thing.

Your mileage may vary.

Just picking 2

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_former_Guantanamo_Bay_detainees_alleged_to_have_returned_to_terrorism

And he had to destroy the energy independence movement to... Save it I guess?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-court-blocks-obama-administration-hydraulic-fracturing-rule-1443641565

http://www.wsj.com/articles/obamas-coal-last-rites-1453503121

So adding your acknowledgement of the catastrophe that was the red line and that he whispers to his cabinet that the Saudis aren't the greatest peeps ever while doing nothing about it, which differs from no president ever, how do you score "above average"? 

Maybe he is "above average" but those seem like things that were abject country harming failures or happened despite, not because, of his policies. 

Edit to add: what is the doctrine you're suggesting that hangs that string of sadness together? 

I largely agree with drummerboy's comments here.

As to JF question of "how do you score 'above average?'" - for myself, the answer is that it's in comparison to all the other American presidents.  I feel very comfortable rating Obama "above average" in that context, though I think what JF's criticism here points out is that even above average is sadly very far from what is ideal.  I think that says far more about American presidents (and American power) in general than it does about Obama, however.

(I know this has been answered a thousand times, but how do I edit the title of the thread so I can fix the typo?)

Jackson_Fusion said:

Just picking 2



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_former_Guantanamo_Bay_detainees_alleged_to_have_returned_to_terrorism

And he had to destroy the energy independence movement to... Save it I guess?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-court-blocks-obama-administration-hydraulic-fracturing-rule-1443641565

http://www.wsj.com/articles/obamas-coal-last-rites-1453503121

So adding your acknowledgement of the catastrophe that was the red line and that he whispers to his cabinet that the Saudis aren't the greatest peeps ever while doing nothing about it, which differs from no president ever, how do you score "above average"? 

Maybe he is "above average" but those seem like things that were abject country harming failures or happened despite, not because, of his policies. 

Edit to add: what is the doctrine you're suggesting that hangs that string of sadness together? 

To pick one of your items - gitmo prisoners returning to terrorism. er, so the f*** what? seriously. You're willing to justify the creation of a gulag because a handful of people might have been allowed to return to "the fight"? What about the terrorists we created by merely having a Gitmo? What about that Gitmo goes against EVERYTHING GOOD that we have ever stood for? That it is quite simply, morally wrong?

If you think the closing of Gitmo is a mark against Obama, you conversely must think that it's creation was a good thing, and a plus for Bush. Bully for you . Sad for America.

drummerboy said:

(I know this has been answered a thousand times, but how do I edit the title of the thread so I can fix the typo?)

You will see an edit link on your discussions page:
https://myaccount.worldwebs.com/discussions

And also on any discussions page like this:
https://maplewood.worldwebs.com/forums/category/id/12-Soapbox-All-Politics

And there's a Help Center link at the top - many FAQs are posted there:
https://worldwebs.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/208997228-How-do-I-edit-the-discussion-title-

Jackson_Fusion said:

Just picking 2

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_former_Guantanamo_Bay_detainees_alleged_to_have_returned_to_terrorism

And he had to destroy the energy independence movement to... Save it I guess?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/obamas-coal-last-rites-1453503121

Fracking, more than anything else, is responsible for the sharp decline in domestic coal usage.

As far as Guantanamo is concerned, as there is not and never will be a shortage of terrorist leaders, we can afford to stick with the rule of law.

jamie said:

drummerboy said:

(I know this has been answered a thousand times, but how do I edit the title of the thread so I can fix the typo?)

You will see an edit link on your discussions page:
https://myaccount.worldwebs.com/discussions

And also on any discussions page like this:
https://maplewood.worldwebs.com/forums/category/id/12-Soapbox-All-Politics

And there's a Help Center link at the top - many FAQs are posted there:
https://worldwebs.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/208997228-How-do-I-edit-the-discussion-title-

grazie