The New York Times - Motley Rainbows and Dead Unicorns

this here is a remarkable sentence:

=================================

I honestly think that if we become a partisan organization exclusively focused on threats to democracy, and we give up our coverage of the issues, the social, political, and cultural divides that are animating participation in politics in America, we will lose the battle to be independent.

=================================

Focusing on "threats to democracy" is now a partisan activity!

we're effing doomed.
(to say nothing of the fact that the whole sentence is just a terribly weak strawman)


Just generally complaining about the Times, this stuff drives me nuts.  I see the headline about the widening war, I want to read more but, if I click on it, the article about the widening war is nowhere to be found.  I have to scroll through 10 other articles to find the one that should have been linked to the headline.

The Times is like Democracy, it is the worst other than all the others.


https://twitter.com/froomkin/status/1519038876353921024/photo/

A Democracy reflecting the  opinions of the whole country, rather than the opinions of one party, can only be said to truly represent the United States of America.  Our system is still the envy of the world. Our Republic doesn’t need “fixing,” but the restoration of our Founding Fathers’ Constitution.


mtierney said:

https://twitter.com/froomkin/status/1519038876353921024/photo/

A Democracy reflecting the  opinions of the whole country, rather than the opinions of one party, can only be said to truly represent the United States of America.  Our system is still the envy of the world. Our Republic doesn’t need “fixing,” but the restoration of our Founding Fathers’ Constitution.

Most of the developed world laughs at us.

and what exactly does "restoration of our Founding Fathers’ Constitution" even mean? Your Republican party is trying to overturn elections, with many involved with an attempted coup, while they try to destroy the 1st amendment and tear away at civil rights, and you're talking about the Constitution?


mtierney said:

https://twitter.com/froomkin/status/1519038876353921024/photo/

A Democracy reflecting the  opinions of the whole country, rather than the opinions of one party, can only be said to truly represent the United States of America.  Our system is still the envy of the world. Our Republic doesn’t need “fixing,” but the restoration of our Founding Fathers’ Constitution.

I live in Canada.  No one I have met here envies the US.  Most Canadians looked on in absolute horror as Trump subverted American democracy.  When I first moved here a couple of years ago, many people congratulated me on getting out "just in time".


mtierney said:

https://twitter.com/froomkin/status/1519038876353921024/photo/

A Democracy reflecting the  opinions of the whole country, rather than the opinions of one party, can only be said to truly represent the United States of America.  Our system is still the envy of the world. Our Republic doesn’t need “fixing,” but the restoration of our Founding Fathers’ Constitution.

One big step toward restoring the constitution would be forever barring from public office the man who tried to overthrow the election, and all of his enablers. Wouldn't you agree?


mtierney said:

Our system is still the envy of the world.

Nah. 


We have a federal election in 3 weeks. The one person trying to run a campaign similarly to one of yours, implying that our style of federation should be like yours, is such a piteous creature that no-one takes him seriously. Further, everyone in his Party is blatantly using him and his money for some selfish purpose and deserts him as quick as they can. 
H’m. Not at all like a couple of decades ago. 


ml1 said:

mtierney said:

Our system is still the envy of the world.

Nah. 

How do you explain the hundreds of thousands of people “dying” to come here year after year?

Are they coming in order to change America, or embrace what America represents in the world?

Someone attempting to live in two countries, maintaining allegiance to both, invariably lives in neither.


mtierney said:

How do you explain the hundreds of thousands of people “dying” to come here year after year?

America is definitely the envy if Somalia, Guatemala, and  a dozen failed or failing states to boot.  To extrapolate that to "the world" is to make oneself a laughing stock.  Go try to sell that line in Germany, France or Japan and see how far you get.

mtierney said:

Someone attempting to live in two countries, maintaining allegiance to both, invariably lives in neither.

Says someone who has only ever lived in one country.


Even in the countries that I mentioned, the views of the tiny minority of people who come to the US can't be taken as representative of the vast majority who stay.

Its probably too late for you but you really should have travelled more.

LOL


mtierney said:

How do you explain the hundreds of thousands of people “dying” to come here year after year?

Are they coming in order to change America, or embrace what America represents in the world?

Someone attempting to live in two countries, maintaining allegiance to both, invariably lives in neither.

Today I learned I live nowhere.


ridski said:

mtierney said:

How do you explain the hundreds of thousands of people “dying” to come here year after year?

Are they coming in order to change America, or embrace what America represents in the world?

Someone attempting to live in two countries, maintaining allegiance to both, invariably lives in neither.

Today I learned I live nowhere.

It's probably the reason why, when someone hears my accent and asks where I'm from, I typically say "Secaucus."


mtierney said:

ml1 said:

mtierney said:

Our system is still the envy of the world.

Nah. 

How do you explain the hundreds of thousands of people “dying” to come here year after year?

Are they coming in order to change America, or embrace what America represents in the world?

Someone attempting to live in two countries, maintaining allegiance to both, invariably lives in neither.

there are about a half billion people in Europe who surely are not feeling any desire to come to the U.S. to live.

There are a lot of great countries in the world, and their residents have no envy toward the U.S. way of life.


GoSlugs said:

Even in the countries that I mentioned, the views of the tiny minority of people who come to the US can't be taken as representative of the vast majority who stay.

Its probably too late for you but you really should have travelled more.

LOL

Sitting in a doctor’s office today (no magazines these days) I checked in here. I put a list together quickly and it probably leaves out a continent or country, but I put this together…

travels..

All states, including Alaska and Hawaii

Puerto Rico

Mexico, Central America,

Jamaica ( there is a story!)

Panama ( crossed the Canal by ship)

Caribbean islands,

Brazil, Columbia

Multiple trips to Europe —Ireland, Scotland,Finland, Denmark,  Norway, Bulgaria, Romania, Austria, Germany, France, England, etc Vienna was where my Mom was born. Both of us spent  time doing the roots thing in Austria and Germany

Baltic countries including Ukraine

St Petersburg, Russia

Odesa

Israel

Turkey

Jordan

Egypt

Australia

New Zealand

Canada, many visits across the land, Newfoundland, to British Columbia, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, Yukon Territory (all the parks) Calgary

honeymooned in Montreal and Quebec

Edited to add: Italy, Greece*, Spain**, Portugal, Corfu

*a stay with friends

**mugged in Madrid

lived in Michigan, Maryland, Florida, New York and New Jersey

The doctor will see me now!

Edited yet again to add: our travels took trains, auto train, planes, automobiles, and, yes, cruise ships the older we got! We drove all the USA and cross country with four kids.

@GoSlug Thank you, GoSlug, for prompting this trip down memory lane!


There's cruises, staying in resorts, tours, and then there is actual travel and interactions with people on the ground.  Looking at that list, I am guessing, based on your posts on MOL, that most of it (at least in the last 20 years) falls into the first category.

Either way, when you say "our system is still the envy of the world" you are either lying or ill informed. My charitable heart prefers to believe the latter.


smile Ridski, you remind me of the day I was shopping with Mum when she was challenged by a Francophobe. (We have quite a few, more so back when the Rainbow Warrior days. However Mum immigrated in 1948)

Mum replied: ‘I chose this country! Decades before you were born! What’s your excuse for rudeness??’

ridski said:

It's probably the reason why, when someone hears my accent and asks where I'm from, I typically say "Secaucus."


edited for grammar - must be a migraine day.


Mtierney, I’ve just remembered that when Mum and Dad decided to marry and come to Australia, she had already been approved to migrate to the USA. She had an uncle and aunt in New York, and was going to live with them - then fell in love with Dad, and they came here where they knew no-one. They knew they weren’t going back to live back in Europe. 


drummerboy said:

credit where credit is due. The Times buries Tucker Carlson.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-tonight.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

and it will only serve to further cement his standing with his audience.  Because the NYT is clearly part of "them."

vampire


ml1 said:

drummerboy said:

credit where credit is due. The Times buries Tucker Carlson.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-tonight.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

and it will only serve to further cement his standing with his audience.  Because the NYT is clearly part of "them."

vampire

Totally. He posted a photo of himself holding up the article and doing his bizarre squint-laugh face.


regardless, the NYT did what it had to do and did it well. It certainly wasn't meant for his audience and maybe it'll show some people how evil Fox actually is.


I feel sorry for the staffers who had to watch all of the thousands of episodes of Tucker's show, including the fascist/sexist/racist/xenophobic parts that Paul Surovell pretends don't exist.


of all the columns Bret Stephens has written, THIS is what he chooses for a mea culpa:

I Was Wrong About Trump Voters

The worst line I ever wrote as a pundit — yes, I know, it’s a crowded field — was the first line I ever wrote about the man who would become the 45th president: “If by now you don’t find Donald Trump appalling, you’re appalling.”


ml1 said:

of all the columns Bret Stephens has written, THIS is what he chooses for a mea culpa:

I Was Wrong About Trump Voters

The worst line I ever wrote as a pundit — yes, I know, it’s a crowded field — was the first line I ever wrote about the man who would become the 45th president: “If by now you don’t find Donald Trump appalling, you’re appalling.”

just an idiot


ml1 said:

of all the columns Bret Stephens has written, THIS is what he chooses for a mea culpa:

I Was Wrong About Trump Voters

The worst line I ever wrote as a pundit — yes, I know, it’s a crowded field — was the first line I ever wrote about the man who would become the 45th president: “If by now you don’t find Donald Trump appalling, you’re appalling.

Jeez, that's something that I can agree is 100% correct.


nohero said:

ml1 said:

of all the columns Bret Stephens has written, THIS is what he chooses for a mea culpa:

I Was Wrong About Trump Voters

The worst line I ever wrote as a pundit — yes, I know, it’s a crowded field — was the first line I ever wrote about the man who would become the 45th president: “If by now you don’t find Donald Trump appalling, you’re appalling.

Jeez, that's something that I can agree is 100% correct.

to be fair, he doesn't say it was wrong, he says he regrets writing it. Of all the columns he's written, that's what he thinks is his worst.

if anyone needs evidence for why Bret Stephens is a useless waste of NYT space, this is a pretty good example. Talk about clueless. He can't even admit to making a real, substantial error in all his years as a columnist.


NYT has re-hired Kristof, the moron who wrote this:

“I don’t think that most people appreciate that most years, alcohol
kills more people than drugs,” Kristof told me, though he clarified that
he does not believe this is true of the type of alcohol that he makes.
He also does not think that profiting off the sale of alcohol and
lowering rates of alcohol addiction, two of his stated immediate goals,
are in conflict. “You know, I’ve lost friends to alcoholism, but I
haven’t lost any to Pinot Noir alcoholism,” he said.

“I wouldn’t be in favor of barring alcohol in general. I think that wine
can be, or cider can be, a social good and can create social capital.
Things that bring people together, I think, are good for society. I
think alcohol can do that, and I think that’s true of wine and cider. I
take your point that some people start with nice Pinot Noirs and
then… ,” he trailed off. “But I think that is much less common, and
those who die, the mortality from alcoholism, it’s driven really by
working-class Americans, and it’s in kind of bulk hard liquor
particularly. I don’t think that good wine and cider add significantly
to the problem.”


Peter Baker is just the worst.

ETA: actually, it's more the headline writer than Baker in this case.


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