The Kavanaugh Hearing

nohero said:

It's the accusation as described.  Whether he's been charged is irrelevant as to whether it's an accusation.  And the circumstances described are a description of an attempted rape.
[Edited to add]  Let's compare -
Booker: Making out and he groped her breasts.
Kavanaugh: Follow her as she looks for a bathroom, push her into an empty room, close the door, turn music up, cover her mouth, attempt to force himself on her.
Conclusion: It's stupid to bring up Booker in a discussion of Kavanaugh.

It's stupid, as well as nakedly partisan.  The two incidents as described are not the same.  

Smedley said:

 So what is/was the point in BK's accuser coming forward? If all minds are made up and it's all just theater, she may as well just withdraw from public view. 

I would assume she feels a responsibility not to stay silent.  It's Ford's place to do what she thinks is right, even if the members of the Senate do nothing about the information she gives them.

In all my years posting on MOL, I have not once been wrong in being pessimistic about what GOP lawmakers are going to do.  But many, many times I've hoped that I would be proven wrong by events.  I hope to be wrong this time.  

If Kavanaugh is not confirmed by the Senate, I will be more than happy to admit I was wrong about the Republican senators who don't vote for him.  I'm wanting to be wrong about this.  But I doubt I will be.

nohero said:

Tom_R said:Who has been the the subject of a rape accusation?

As for the groping accusation; I'm gonna wait and see how it plays out. In the realm of political correctness, the accusation, if substantiated, certainly makes Judge Kavanaugh less palatable.
For me, a high school kid's bad behavior doesn't seem to be as important as an adult's (think our President) similar behavior.
TomR

Mr. Tom_R - the accusation against Kavanaugh is a lot more than "groping".  Calling it "groping" is the pro-Kavanaugh camp's attempt to use language to undermine the seriousness of the charge.  
The allegation is that Kavanaugh and his friend lured a young woman to an empty room in the house, held her there against her will, covered her mouth to keep her from being heard, and tried to subject her to forcible sex.  That's called attempted rape, not "groping".

 I heard a report on 1010 WINS last week that described the conduct as groping.

If 1010 WINS got the story wrong, or if more has come out since I heard the story, so be it.

Personally, I'd like to hear/read what the woman has to say.

TomR

DaveSchmidt said:

Tom_R said:

Morganna said:
Just heard that in high school he was in the 100 keg club. I believe it was in the yearbook. The goal being to drink that amount during senior year so probably had his share of blackouts. I think if his friend who was a witness and apparently wrote about his own alcoholism, is interviewed, there will be a shadow cast on Ks denial.
With the rehash of the Anita Hill testimony, I think congress will be afraid to confirm him.
I think he will withdraw.

100 kegs (even 1/2 kegs) over the course of a scholastic year; I somewhat surprised that the man isn't brain dead.
I think that whoever told you that is blowing smoke up your skirt.
TomR

According to the 1997 memoir by Kavanaugh’s high school friend Mark Judge, the 100 kegs were a scholastic-year goal for the parties they held every weekend and sometimes after school (plus kegs here and there like the one they sneaked into the parking lot during a basketball game). 
After football season, Judge wrote, they were up to 60.

 While it sure sounds pretty stupid to me, your description makes a lot more sense than Morgana's.

I hope your description is the accurate one, although, as I wrote, it is still pretty stupid.

TomR

Will Democrats' favorable view of George W. Bush continue?

https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/407277-bush-says-he-still-supports-kavanaugh

Kavanaugh is using the "all white boys look the same" defense. 

Tom_R said:

nohero said:

Tom_R said:Who has been the the subject of a rape accusation?

As for the groping accusation; I'm gonna wait and see how it plays out. In the realm of political correctness, the accusation, if substantiated, certainly makes Judge Kavanaugh less palatable.
For me, a high school kid's bad behavior doesn't seem to be as important as an adult's (think our President) similar behavior.
TomR

Mr. Tom_R - the accusation against Kavanaugh is a lot more than "groping".  Calling it "groping" is the pro-Kavanaugh camp's attempt to use language to undermine the seriousness of the charge.  
The allegation is that Kavanaugh and his friend lured a young woman to an empty room in the house, held her there against her will, covered her mouth to keep her from being heard, and tried to subject her to forcible sex.  That's called attempted rape, not "groping".

 I heard a report on 1010 WINS last week that described the conduct as groping.

If 1010 WINS got the story wrong, or if more has come out since I heard the story, so be it.
Personally, I'd like to hear/read what the woman has to say.
TomR

 You could have just read the thread if you actually thought you didn't have enough information.  It's your own fault if you didn't try to find out the easily-available claims before posting.

paulsurovell said:
Will Democrats' favorable view of George W. Bush continue?
https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/407277-bush-says-he-still-supports-kavanaugh

I don't think anyone else interested in this topic wants it derailed into a discussion, correction, clarification, explication, or dissertation regarding your George W. Bush "point".  Could you keep the stupid non sequiturs confined to your Trumpish conspiracy-mongering threads?  Thanks in advance.

nohero said:

Tom_R said:

nohero said:

Tom_R said:Who has been the the subject of a rape accusation?

As for the groping accusation; I'm gonna wait and see how it plays out. In the realm of political correctness, the accusation, if substantiated, certainly makes Judge Kavanaugh less palatable.
For me, a high school kid's bad behavior doesn't seem to be as important as an adult's (think our President) similar behavior.
TomR

Mr. Tom_R - the accusation against Kavanaugh is a lot more than "groping".  Calling it "groping" is the pro-Kavanaugh camp's attempt to use language to undermine the seriousness of the charge.  
The allegation is that Kavanaugh and his friend lured a young woman to an empty room in the house, held her there against her will, covered her mouth to keep her from being heard, and tried to subject her to forcible sex.  That's called attempted rape, not "groping".

 I heard a report on 1010 WINS last week that described the conduct as groping.

If 1010 WINS got the story wrong, or if more has come out since I heard the story, so be it.
Personally, I'd like to hear/read what the woman has to say.
TomR

 You could have just read the thread if you actually thought you didn't have enough information.  It's your own fault if you didn't try to find out the easily-available claims before posting.

it's also really, really freakin' easy to find out what Dr. Ford is claiming.  There's a letter from her posted online.  This is why we're in the state we are with our politics.  Some people are too lazy to find out for themselves what's true, and are content to listen to one side's talking points.  Let's link to the letter one more time:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/16/politics/blasey-ford-kavanaugh-letter-feinstein/index.html

nohero said:

paulsurovell said:
Will Democrats' favorable view of George W. Bush continue?
https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/407277-bush-says-he-still-supports-kavanaugh

I don't think anyone else interested in this topic wants it derailed into a discussion, correction, clarification, explication, or dissertation regarding your George W. Bush "point".  Could you keep the stupid non sequiturs confined to your Trumpish conspiracy-mongering threads?  Thanks in advance.

You miss the relevance -- Will Democrats condemn Bush for continuing to back Kavanaugh, or will they be inhibited by their new-found (and totally misguided) "approval" of him?

But as for your impolite and inappropriate "advice" -- Thanks, but I'll post as I please.

paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

paulsurovell said:
Will Democrats' favorable view of George W. Bush continue?
https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/407277-bush-says-he-still-supports-kavanaugh

I don't think anyone else interested in this topic wants it derailed into a discussion, correction, clarification, explication, or dissertation regarding your George W. Bush "point".  Could you keep the stupid non sequiturs confined to your Trumpish conspiracy-mongering threads?  Thanks in advance.

You miss the relevance -- Will Democrats condemn Bush for continuing to back Kavanaugh, or will they be inhibited by their new-found (and totally misguided) "approval" of him?

But as for your impolite and inappropriate "advice" -- Thanks, but I'll post as I please.

 I don't like the fact that Bush is backing Kavanaugh. I admit to being enthusiastic about a dozen or so Republicans who have come out against Trump. All of this will fade when and if things go back to normal. Its the old, " the enemy of my enemy is my friend."  I don't think Dems have had a change in viewpoint about GOP politics but in this time of division and hate, I think some people including myself, yearn to look around and see some humanity in the other party. After all many of us are related to people with views that are diametrically opposed to ours.

Nothing undermines a loaded question like an honest answer.

I do not know any Dems who have a truly favorable view of W or his administration.

He is just "favorable" as compared to Trump, but who isn't? 

NYT columnist Charles Blow defends Christine Blasey Ford with his own story

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/09/20/charles-blow-christine-ford-kavanaugh-cuomo-vpx.cnn

nobody likes Bush the president. 

Some might like Bush the nice guy who slips Michelle Obama a piece of candy now and then or who does some charity work.  

Personally nothing’s changed for me.  Voting Rvis voting for racist  white supremacist policies favoring the wealthy and screwing the working and middle classes. They are all corrupt and all of them are no good

Folks, you're letting Mr. Surovell derail the Kavanaugh discussion with his snide comment about the Democrats and Bush.  I don't know why he'd want to do that, but maybe it's because it makes Trump look bad.

For example -

President Donald Trump, in a series of tweets Friday, deviated from his previously measured comments about the woman who has accused his Supreme Court pick Brett Kavanaugh of sexual assault, claiming that if the attack she alleges "was as bad as she says, charges would have been immediately filed with local Law Enforcement Authorities".

In a series of tweets, Trump threw into question the validity of Professor Christine Blasey Ford's accusations in the most direct way since the allegations against Kavanaugh came to light and said his Supreme Court nominee is "under assault by radical left wing politicians."

"I have no doubt that, if the attack on Dr. Ford was as bad as she says, charges would have been immediately filed with local Law Enforcement Authorities by either her or her loving parents. I ask that she bring those filings forward so that we can learn date, time, and place," Trump tweeted.

If that's the kind of defense the President is using (to appeal to his base and try to keep GOP Senators in line), then he must be worried, and all the more reason for a full investigation of Kavanaugh, preferably by the FBI.

Why is it that grown men can come forward after thirty years of being groped or molested by priests, and no one questions them? A grown woman waits thirty years to come forward and she's treated like she has the plague, even threatened with physical harm? What is wrong with people today?

Jaytee said:
Why is it that grown men can come forward after thirty years of being groped or molested by priests, and no one questions them? A grown woman waits thirty years to come forward and she's treated like she has the plague, even threatened with physical harm? What is wrong with people today?

 Is this new? I think it's a new awareness of how things have always been.

nohero said:
Folks, you're letting Mr. Surovell derail the Kavanaugh discussion with his snide comment about the Democrats and Bush.  I don't know why he'd want to do that, but maybe it's because it makes Trump look bad.

The responses to my question were intelligent, principled, and germane to the Kavanaugh thread.

You know what derails a thread? When someone makes personal attacks like yours that have no basis in reality. Your attempts to suppress free speech have no place in Maplewood or Maplewood Online.

I think the Democrats are hoping that someone else steps forward. Or maybe someone else already has and they're waiting for the right moment to go public.

Interesting article on teen's point of view.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/boys-will-be-boys-as-kavanaugh-debate-rages-teens-are-saying-some-adults-still-don%e2%80%99t-get-it/ar-AAArybQ?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=HPCDHP

paulsurovell said:
I think the Democrats are hoping that someone else steps forward. Or maybe someone else already has and they're waiting for the right moment to go public.

 If there is another woman who may step forward, I think she will decide to do so in her own time.  The President and his supporting players are being nasty to Professor Blasey Ford, not only to try to hold onto their base, but to intimidate anyone else.  That's sort of Trump's M.O.

From all indications, Professor Blasey Ford's timing for providing information about herself and her information is due to her own personal reticence.  I know the GOP is trying to spin this as a Democratic strategy that she's implementing, but I think it's both simpler and more human than that - she feared the type of public discourse about her that has actually happened.  But, her concerns about Judge Kavanaugh ultimately overcame her reluctance.

I now predict the Kavanaugh nomination is sunk. He’ll either withdraw sometime in the near future, or, less likely, it’ll come to a vote and he’ll be voted down.

I just think this accusation has too much credibility, and momentum, in our MeToo era for the GOP to get past, as much as the party would like to.

Smedley said:
I now predict the Kavanaugh nomination is sunk. He’ll either withdraw sometime in the near future, or, less likely, it’ll come to a vote and he’ll be voted down.
I just think this accusation has too much credibility, and momentum, in our MeToo era for the GOP to get past, as much as the party would like to.

 You may be correct.  Unless the GOP decides to be patient, and let its investigation include not only Professor Blasey Ford's testimony but also consideration of any corroborating witnesses, it will look like they are bullying a victim of sexual assault.  The GOP's problem is that they have been rushing to approve Kavanaugh before the November mid-term election.  They got away with pushing through the hearings before all of the written material associated with Kavanaugh could be produced.  They may fear (with reason) that they can't get away with not fully looking at the sexual assault charges.

...and the potential revelations after he's sworn in. Nothing like 2 tainted GOP Justices.

The GOP is now calculating as to which alternative will hurt them more in the Mid-Terms:

Confirming Kavanaugh or having him withdraw.

She WILL testify!

How cowardly is the GOP? First they say they, and not the FBI, will handle the investigation. Then they try to hide behind a woman inquisitor so they don't have to look bad questioning her. 

Morganna & Dave Schmidt,

I did not mean to imply that either of your descriptions were stupid; rather that the student's conduct, as described, was.

My apologies for my sloppiness.

TomR

Tom_R said:
Morganna & Dave Schmidt,
I did not mean to infer that either of your descriptions were stupid; rather that the student's conduct, as described, was.
My apologies for my sloppiness.
TomR

 No problem Tom. I had heard it on MSNBC but couldn't remember which show and it was not as clearly explained as Dave's clarification. What's comical is that when I looked up how many beers were in a keg I was stunned! It takes a lot to surprise me when it comes to alcohol consumption because I worked in all of those crazy clubs in the 80s when regulars consumed bottles of champagne and quarts of vodka. Beer was not popular at Studio and Xenon but blackouts were an every night occurrence sorry to say.