Pope Francis, Catholics, and Christians in the news worldwide
MTierney. I find you to be a person of warm intellect, wit and vigor, notwithstanding the philistine trolls that would insult such a wonderful strong woman. To quote Keats, they can suck it.
A priest's story:
Why more U.S. Catholics should know about St. Alberto Hurtado, S.J.
"In 1947, with Catholic college students and labor leaders, he launched the Acción Sindical y Económica Chilena (Asich), a Catholic workers’ union. Father Hurtado was steeped in Catholic social teaching. He knew well the papal encyclicals that called for the just treatment of workers, and he felt that the church had lost credibility because, in practice, it often took the side of exploitive capitalists or simply remained indifferent to injustices in the workplace. Father Hurtado mourned the fact that communists were seen as better positioned to help workers than Catholics were. The church could not lose more ground, he argued. It had to present an alternative to socialist labor unions. Asich was this necessary, albeit tardy, response. It was one of the Jesuit’s crowning achievements in the country, an organization that was eventually endorsed by Pope Pius XII."
An open letter addressing a challenge faced by Christians -
"Commonweal is pleased to publish the following open letter about the disturbing rise of nationalism, especially among some Christians, in the United States. While this is not a Commonweal editorial, and none of the editors here had a hand in drafting it, we thought it would be useful for our readers to consider its arguments and claims as they reflect on their political responsibilities in these perilous times."
https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/open-letter-against-new-nationalism
Excerpts:
"Each day more signs point to a tremendous shift in American conservatism away from the prior consensus and toward the new nationalism of Donald Trump. This is evident not only in the recent National Conservatism Conference held in July in Washington, D.C., but also in the manifesto signed by a number of Christians who appear eager to embrace nationalism as compatible with Christian faith. Without impugning specific individuals, as fellow Christian intellectuals, theologians, pastors, and educators, we respond to this rapprochement with sadness, but also with a clear and firm No. We are Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant; Republicans, Democrats, and independents. Despite our denominational and political differences, we are united by the conviction that there are certain political solidarities that are anathema to our shared Christian faith."
...
"To be clear, nationalism is not the same as patriotism. Nationalism forges political belonging out of religious, ethnic, and racial identities, loyalties intended to precede and supersede law. Patriotism, by contrast, is love of the laws and loyalty to them over leader or party. Such nationalism is not only politically dangerous but reflects profound theological errors that threaten the integrity of Christian faith. It damages the love of neighbor and betrays Christ."
The entire open letter is at the link.
nohero said:
An open letter addressing a challenge faced by Christians -
"Commonweal is pleased to publish the following open letter about the disturbing rise of nationalism, especially among some Christians, in the United States. While this is not a Commonweal editorial, and none of the editors here had a hand in drafting it, we thought it would be useful for our readers to consider its arguments and claims as they reflect on their political responsibilities in these perilous times."
https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/open-letter-against-new-nationalism
"To be clear, nationalism is not the same as patriotism. Nationalism forges political belonging out of religious, ethnic, and racial identities, loyalties intended to precede and supersede law. Patriotism, by contrast, is love of the laws and loyalty to them over leader or party. Such nationalism is not only politically dangerous but reflects profound theological errors that threaten the integrity of Christian faith. It damages the love of neighbor and betrays Christ."
The entire open letter is at the link.
May I presume to disagree in part? September 11, 2001 forever changed the United States. The nation will never be the same opening and welcoming country. The country’s response to these attacks was pure patriotism and nationalism.
I remember, though just a child, the reactions following December 7, 1941. That attack was thousands of miles away from my Brooklyn home, some where many of us had never heard of, Pearl Harbor. The country, still feeling the pain of the Great Depression, launched a response that still stands as unprecedented in history.
Nationalism and patriotism are not curse words. They are the words we use to express love of country, to unite as a nation, and to protect our nation from those who wish to destroy what America represents. Words can be changed and manipulated for ulterior motives to seem to mean the very opposite.
We are, and always will be, a nation welcoming immigrants from all over the world who yearn to become Americans.
The article makes a good case that nationalism and patriotism are profoundly different and that aspects of nationalism are inimical to authentic Christian faith. September 11th did not obviate that distinction.
Here are the paragraphs following nohero's quote above:
1. We reject the pretensions of nationalism to usurp our highest loyalties. National identity has no bearing on the debts of love we owe other sons and daughters of God. Created in the image and likeness of God, all human beings are our neighbors regardless of citizenship status.
2. We reject nationalism’s tendency to homogenize and narrow the church to a single ethnos. The church cannot be itself unless filled with disciples “from all nations” (panta ta ethné, Matthew 28:19). Cities, states, and nations have borders; the church never does. If the church is not ethnically plural, it is not the church, which requires a diversity of tongues out of obedience to the Lord.
3. We reject the xenophobia and racism of many forms of ethno-nationalism, explicit and implicit, as grave sins against God the Creator. Violence done against the bodies of marginalized people is violence done against the body of Christ. Indifference to the suffering of orphans, refugees, and prisoners is indifference to Jesus Christ and his cross. White supremacist ideology is the work of the anti-Christ.
4. We reject nationalism’s claim that the stranger, refugee, and migrant are enemies of the people. Where nationalism fears the stranger as a threat to political community, the church welcomes the stranger as necessary for full communion with God. Jesus Christ identifies himself with the poor, imprisoned foreigner in need of hospitality. “For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me” (Matthew 25:41-43).
5. We reject the nationalist’s inclination to despair when unable to monopolize power and dominate opponents. When Christians change from majority to minority status in a given country, they should not contort their witness in order to stay in power. The church remains the church even as a political minority, even when unable to influence the government or when facing persecution.
In charity and in hope, we urge our fellow Christians to repudiate the temptations and the falsehoods of nationalism. The politics of xenophobia, even when dressed up in high-minded social critique, can only be pursued in contradiction of the Gospel. A true culture of life welcomes the stranger, embraces the orphan, and binds the wounds of all who are our neighbors—all who lie lifeless on the road, as the pious walk silently past.
mtierney said:
Nationalism and patriotism are not curse words. They are the words we use to express love of country, to unite as a nation, and to protect our nation from those who wish to destroy what America represents. Words can be changed and manipulated for ulterior motives to seem to mean the very opposite.
You are conflating nationalism and patriotism. They are not synonyms.
Nationalism is to patriotism as bulimia is to a healthy diet.
That said, Christ would not have had room for either.
Matthew 22:21 "Render therefore unto Cæsar the things which are Cæsar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s."
Thanks, finnegan, for the rest of the link. If we lived in a perfect world, where mutual respect was the foundation, perhaps such a belief could be possible. We do not live in a perfect world. When Christians and Jews are targeted for destruction by an errant form of another religion, not doing anything is not an option.
My concept of nationalism is love of country; patriotism is love of God and country.
In today’s world, many words have been stripped of their original meanings, replaced with newer meanings. English is a welcoming language. Rather than change a meaning, I suggest the invention of new words!
mtierney said:
patriotism is love of God and country.
In today’s world, many words have been stripped of their original meanings, replaced with newer meanings. English is a welcoming language. Rather than change a meaning, I suggest the invention of new words!
"The English term patriot is first attested in the Elizabethan era; it came via Middle French from Late Latin (6th century) patriota, meaning "countryman", ultimately from Greek πατριώτης (patriōtēs), meaning 'from the same country', from πατρίς (patris), meaning 'fatherland'.[6] The abstract noun patriotism appears in the early 18th century"
Perhaps you need a dose of your own medicine.
Moving off this topic, which makes me shudder given the abhorrent rise of violent antisemitism by patriotic Christians the world over, in just a few hours we'll know the verdict in Pell's appeal. Whichever way it goes, it'll be ethically groundbreaking and will set up discussion points and flag actions to implement for communities all around the world.
joanne said:
Moving off this topic, which makes me shudder given the abhorrent rise of violent antisemitism by patriotic Christians the world over, in just a few hours we'll know the verdict in Pell's appeal. Whichever way it goes, it'll be ethically groundbreaking and will set up discussion points and flag actions to implement for communities all around the world.
How sad is it that the less depressing alternative is a story about clerical sex abuse? Dark days indeed!
joanne said:
Moving off this topic, which makes me shudder given the abhorrent rise of violent antisemitism by patriotic Christians the world over, in just a few hours we'll know the verdict in Pell's appeal. Whichever way it goes, it'll be ethically groundbreaking and will set up discussion points and flag actions to implement for communities all around the world.
The perv lost his appeal -
Throughout his evidence, [the complainant] came across as someone who was telling the truth. He did not seek to embellish his evidence or tailor it in a manner favourable to the prosecution. As might have been expected, there were some things which he could remember and many things which he could not. And his explanations of why that was so had the ring of truth. - Chief Justice Anne Ferguson and Justice Chris Maxwell
He may be stripped of his honors -
“My understanding is that this the [appeal loss] would result in the stripping of the honours that are decided externally to the government. That is a process that is done independently, and that course will now follow.” - Scott Morrison PM
So, this afternoon the newsy type programs over here are full of analysis of courtroom demeanour and Pell’s likely next move. Mainly because no-one’s really had much time to read and reflect on the 300-odd pages of the decision (yet); that’ll happen this evening, no doubt.
Current feeling is that he will probably seek leave to go before the High Court, as he believes he has sufficient support in high-enough places to swing numbers at least for a hearing.
This article may help with understanding some of the finer points of law behind the decisions so far:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-21/george-pell-has-lost-his-appeal-what-happens-next/11434216
May I just say that when I heard the decision, as I was driving to my stand up paddleboarding lesson, I cheered and nearly whooped? I was very pleased that there was no grandstanding or playing up to the media, just basic legal business and trying to get justice served. Ann Ferguson kept her own views well in check.
We have a lot of social and legal debate swirling around ethics and faith at present, with this case, a federal Bill concerning matters of discrimination and choice, and some States’ legislation concerning reproductive rights. Morrison seems to be holding it together by not saying much (for a change), and sounding more measured, wiser than he usually does.
BG9, our Governor-General (the Queen’s representative, so supposedly outside politics and higher in protocol status than the Prime Minister) has said he won’t strip any honours until all appeals are exhausted.
In a statement, Governor-General David Hurley appeared to suggest no action would be taken until any appeal by Pell to the High Court had been decided.
"Appointments to the Order of Australia may be terminated and one of the grounds is conviction for a crime or offence under a law of the Commonwealth, State or Territory," he said.
"Once all legal proceedings have run their course, the Council for the Order of Australia may make a recommendation to me as Chancellor of the Order, which I will act on."
joanne said:
Moving off this topic, which makes me shudder given the abhorrent rise of violent antisemitism by patriotic Christians the world over, in just a few hours we'll know the verdict in Pell's appeal. Whichever way it goes, it'll be ethically groundbreaking and will set up discussion points and flag actions to implement for communities all around the world.
Where did you read about “the abhorrent rise of violent antisemitism by ‘patriotic’ Christians the world over “? How did you segue to your preferred topic of clerical sexual abuse?
Hyperbole?
That some 5 million Christians died in Nazi death camps is a fact. In more recent time, Christians are being killed throughout the Middle East - another fact.
Mtierney, antisemitism increasing globally, and has been over the past decade. The statistics are dramatic, and alarming to see when placed together - you can consult Wikipedia, or an Antidefamation League source or similar of your choice to see these figures. In your own country, attacks on Jewish families and neighbourhoods including assaults, graffiti attacks, threats etc have increased to the extent that we read of them almost monthly. There have been discussions of some here on MOL. It’s everywhere, Europe, South America, UK, even in NZ and in Asia.
Small children have been mocked and stalked for being obviously part of very observant communities, here in Australia. Thugs, basing their behaviour on that of the Proud Boys movement, graffiti homes in Jewish areas, vandalise property, harass observant women and old men and yes, small schoolchildren throwing school bags off public transport and worse. (News reports of beating old men going to synagogue etc).
Men going to church don’t get beat up - Christian women going about their ordinary day aren’t yelled at to ‘go home, Hitler was right!’. So please, don’t make the false equivalence of how many Christians also suffered.
This is canary-in-the-mine stuff.
I’m sorry you’re offended by discussion of the Pell case. I did not segue from one topic to another; i returned to an older topic of discussion as it is now current news, with the Vatican officially responding several hours ago. It’s 2am here now, and I need to sleep. I’m sure you can find the official statement, and all the analysis and responses to it.
Pell is the third most important cleric in the Vatican’s hierarchy so what concerns him fits this threads. What concerns him, sadly, concerns a very pressing ethical issue for the Church, for most faith communities, and for families trying to protect their children.
Lots of groups being persecuted these days (including Christians). See: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-persecution-of-christ_b_13652002
Also see: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/13/christians-flee-growing-persecution-africa-middle-east
And: https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/survey-of-middle-east-christians/
Please note the above links are NOT meant to diminish the suffering of other groups. Merely, demonstrate thAt Christians are also being oppressed in the Middle East.
Weisel was a friend of my mother’s. Please do not quote him to me.
It is a FACT that antisemitism is increasing globally now, and the perpetrators are mostly fervent Christian conservatives.
Thank you Joanne for bringing your perspective to this thread. The Pell case certainly has been and will continue to be a challenge to Pope Francis as is the rise of antisemitism both among the masses and, now, the highest levels of our nation's leadership.
With each post it becomes more clear (if it wasn't previously obvious) that today's "Great Americans" aren't all that different from yesterdays "good Germans".
joanne said:
Weisel was a friend of my mother’s. Please do not quote him to me.
It is a FACT that antisemitism is increasing globally now, and the perpetrators are mostly fervent Christian conservatives.
Hope you get some rest.
Incidentally, I did not quote Weisel to you. But why I should not escapes me The quote was used five years ago! More than likely the response to similar provocation. Sadly, evildoers attack Christians and Jews at will. Everyone’s blood flows red. In the Judaeo - Christian traditions, we are all children of God.
Its worth remembering that the vast majority of the people who implemented the Holocaust self identified as Christians. Trying to pretend that this was not, largely, a Christian attack on Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, labor unionists, communists and, yes, even Christians who did not fit society's mold, is not just disrespectful, it is down right dishonest.
Exactly the sort of thing you would expect from a foot soldier in the movement to support our nation's Chief White Supremacist.
I barely slept and have risen with a pounding migraine. We are down 5 staff, my assistant coordinator's sister has just died but R is still coming to work until funeral date, and today is Daffodil Day on which we remember those stricken with cancer and try to find hope.
The Weisel quote was probably written in his honour on his death. My mother was privileged to work with him and the Klarsfelds to preserve witness testimonies especially those from children and Righteous Gentiles who had been frightened of coming forward until the later part of their lives. That she found this vocation in her so-called retirement (late 50s ) would have made my father so proud; I'm sure he would have joined her in the work.
Why is it that people always assume that mass antisemitism always begins and ends with the Shoah? It goes back far earlier than Roman times and includes the wiping out of entire Jewish villages as armies marched through Europe to join their Christian brothers on Crusade. Sure, there was some looting and pillaging of Christian farms but certainly not to the same extent - and those troops were punished not lauded for wiping out Christ-killers.
The libellous epithet is graffitied today.
mtierney said:
Everyone’s blood flows red. In the Judaeo - Christian traditions, we are all children of God.
Just try to remember that that also includes Mexicans, Syrians, etc, not just people that are conveniently white and irish.
Our Ambassador to the Vatican, Tim Fischer, has died of a rare form of leukaemia.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-22/tim-fischer-dies-from-leukaemia/10448110
I’m deeply saddened. Tim was one of few inherently ethical and plain-dealing politicians we’ve had in my lifetime, and he was deeply committed to ensuring each citizen could lead a dignified and independent life of their choosing, and that we all should look after our neighbours - we’ve all got a part to play together building communities.
He was a wonderful advocate for supporting vulnerable and aged people, and people with disabilities. He wanted us to preserve our heritage - built environment, natural environment, bush poetry, campfires songs, trains and drovers trails... He wanted us to value the oldest cultures among us equally with the newest, seamlessly; he couldn’t see why we needed special legislation for some aspects of modern life.
With Tim, you knew what you were dealing with. He’ll be sorely missed.
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https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2019/08/15/david-brooks-his-life-changing-pilgrimage-st-augustine-and-dorothy-day